3 Battery Generating System

[bistander]

Back to the source

So you seen all the movies in which the power supply caps rise from the return current. Thats the same thing that happens to the boost converter. The cap loads up beyond the nominal voltage. While thats happening the controller will limit the duty cycle and the amount of current flowing out.
The amount of power returned to the cap is marginal at best because of the hysteresis in the iron. Also, the cause of the heat.
...

Thank you Matt,

This is what I've been talking about. The current pulse never reaches the source battery due to the presence of the boost converter. Hence my question: Why did I need to use your modded motor in the 1bgs system which I built and tested?

Like you told me here.

@BI ... Thats modified motor which you have no experience with at 24 volt runs about 1.5 amp no load. The jumpy current is because the motor discharges back to source, a good portion of we put in it and the BEMF. ...
Matt

Cheers to you,

bi

[Matthew Jones]

This is exactly what I said in post #4359. Guess I need to draw a picture. And this is how Matt has described the charge pulse from his modded motor. The blue arrows represent the intended path of the charge pulse current from the Matt modded motor back to the source battery. However there is a diode inside the boost converter which blocks current in this direction.

So you seen all the movies in which the power supply caps rise from the return current. Thats the same thing that happens to the boost converter. The cap loads up beyond the nominal voltage. While thats happening the controller will limit the duty cycle and the amount of current flowing out.
The amount of power returned to the cap is marginal at best because of the hysteresis in the iron. Also, the cause of the heat.

The arrows are technically wrong but at the same time the same effective action is happening, the battery is just distributing less power.

Its not hard to see if you put a scope on it. And not just selectively before you film.

I do not understand the on going insistence to keep doubting everything, but then again thats why I am not making attempt to have an ongoing threads. Most of you are too broke or too scared to step outside of your comfort and try anything.

Cheers

[Turion]

Delay

Wantomake,
Doesn’t sound like it’s a time issue completing the generator, so it must be a finance issue, which means a parts issue. Let me know what you need and I may already have it. I’m trying to reduce my inventory as I move stuff to the new house.

[wantomake]

Saturday thoughts

7:45 am with heavy rain a cup of hot java to kick the brains and this thread to just sit, think and hope.

Turion I can't finish the upright Lenz free generator until early next year. I want to use something as a generator until then. Don't think the single battery circuit will produce without a lenzless generator.

Just wondering if anyone has had any attempts with other types generators? I do have several I could try.

Want to hear some ideas from any "builder" or thinking to build.

Thanks and time to nuke the ole coffee.
wantomake

[Turion]

You are NEVER going to get it are you?

Bi.
No, you did NOT build the single battery circuit as you claim. If you did not use a Matt motor you didn’t REPLICATE anything. Period. You got no results because you DID NOT REPLICATE what we designed. If I say it ten more times will it sink in? Didn’t think so. Your results are WORTHLESS, therefore your opinions and conclusions are WORTHLESS because they are based on faulty data. If you are not going to build it correctly please DISCONTINUE posting on this thread as you have NOTHING to contribute. There are plenty of other threads you can join and not build the proper circuit. I’m sure they would welcome your half/assed build and subsequent data and observations and conclusions with open arms. I do not. I welcome ANYONE who has built the proper circuit and will bust my butt to help them get it to the point where they are seeing PROPER results. You I have NO patience with. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada

[bistander]

No lie

You did not build “Turion’s” 3BGS, because you did not use a modified Razor Scooter motor in your build. I went through a detailed explanation of HOW we came to realize the importance of that motor in the circuit and discussed your chances of success without it. I stated that without it the system HAD to be tuned and even THEN it is a hit and miss prospect.

So your “claim” to have replicated The 3BGS is an outright lie. You might as well claim to have built a flying saucer.

Now with a stock off the shelf motor you MAY be able to get it to work if you tune the system, and I have posted instructions for that, but no promises.

I have never said I built a 3bgs, just the single battery 1bgs.

bi

[Turion]

Wrong

You did not build “Turion’s” 3BGS, because you did not use a modified Razor Scooter motor in your build. I went through a detailed explanation of HOW we came to realize the importance of that motor in the circuit and discussed your chances of success without it. I stated that without it the system HAD to be tuned and even THEN it is a hit and miss prospect.

So your “claim” to have replicated The 3BGS is an outright lie. You might as well claim to have built a flying saucer.

Now with a stock off the shelf motor you MAY be able to get it to work if you tune the system, and I have posted instructions for that, but no promises.

[ricards]

Hi ricards,

Yes, here I am. I built Turion's 1bgs and never got any decent answers. So when I saw some talk of balance, I was curious enough to ask. Then just wanted citfta's opinion on something.

Pulse current in this case is due the modification which Matt does in the motor. This mod shifts commutation to a point where the armature coils actually cross over to opposite polarity field magnets. For a short time (pulse duration) the motor operates as a generator with reverse current. Supposedly this reverse current pulse travels back to the source battery giving it a charge pulse, which I don't argue about. Gotoluc and I think tinman did video experiments with scopes to demonstrate this. I'll paste it below. My whole question here was about this negative pulse being blocked by the boost converter. Motivation stems from being skewered for not using a Matt modded motor in my 1bgs when I don't think it would have made any difference anyway.

Regards,

bi

bi,

I think you're being rejected and booted off because you insist that you know better yet you have only tried once.

what are your intentions anyway?. are you here to look at this closely or discredit this?. or just killing time?

what exactly are you trying to point?.
maybe I can answer in a way that can satisfy you.

[Turion]

Scope?

Yes. Several hundred times. I have done hundreds and hundreds of tests on this system. I know what it is capable of and WHY. This is just a toy to get people to see that these principles are real. Build it or don't. I don't really care.

[bistander]

Good point

Because Matt’s motor has times during its rotation when no completed electrical connection exists, you can think of it as a mechanical switch that is on more than it is off. Because of that, battery 3 is pulsed and charged. This is not rocket science. No boost module can cause a circuit to be completed that is MECHANICALLY open. ...

Good point. Don't forget arcing can complete the circuit when breaking inductive circuits. Ever put a scope on it?

[bistander]

Balance and negative pulse

bi,

In the other thread you said you didn't want to discuss any of the battery systems.. yet here you are..

I'm not sure what you mean by "Pulse current" If its the inductive discharge from the magnetic field collapse, the direction should be the same to the current that created the magnetic field. not how you drawn it.

Hi ricards,

Yes, here I am. I built Turion's 1bgs and never got any decent answers. So when I saw some talk of balance, I was curious enough to ask. Then just wanted citfta's opinion on something.

Pulse current in this case is due the modification which Matt does in the motor. This mod shifts commutation to a point where the armature coils actually cross over to opposite polarity field magnets. For a short time (pulse duration) the motor operates as a generator with reverse current. Supposedly this reverse current pulse travels back to the source battery giving it a charge pulse, which I don't argue about. Gotoluc and I think tinman did video experiments with scopes to demonstrate this. I'll paste it below. My whole question here was about this negative pulse being blocked by the boost converter. Motivation stems from being skewered for not using a Matt modded motor in my 1bgs when I don't think it would have made any difference anyway.

Regards,

bi

This is the pulse which Matt claims is responsible for increased energy.



Screenshot from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcg...be&app=desktop

bi

[Turion]

Motor

Because Matt’s motor has times during its rotation when no completed electrical connection exists, you can think of it as a mechanical switch that is on more than it is off. Because of that, battery 3 is pulsed and charged. This is not rocket science. No boost module can cause a circuit to be completed that is MECHANICALLY open. Get it? How many times do I have to explain this. You nit picking terms my stroke your ego, but what you don’t understand about this stuff would fill volumes.

[ricards]

bi,

In the other thread you said you didn't want to discuss any of the battery systems.. yet here you are..

I'm not sure what you mean by "Pulse current" If its the inductive discharge from the magnetic field collapse, the direction should be the same to the current that created the magnetic field. not how you drawn it.

[bistander]

Thanks for trying

Bistander,


I am going to one last time try to get you to see where you are wrong. Dave has said at least twice today that the pulses from the NEGATIVE side of the motor are the ones that help charge the battery that is on the charge side. Your drawings with the blue marks are NOT correct. As the motor rotates so that the brushes make contact with the armature windings the cap in the boost module will discharge THROUGH the motor to the charging battery and then back to the ground connection. I believe Dave has the negative of the boost module in the wrong place on the 3BGS drawing you posted. It should go to ground.

On the 1GBS the almost same thing happens except the NEGATIVE side of the motor goes back to the same battery that is supplying power for the boost module. Since those pulses are going to the POSITIVE of that battery it helps to keep that battery charged. So your blue arrows are AGAIN on the wrong side of the motor.

If you still refuse to accept this explanation then I am sorry. But I don't have any more time to waste explaining the same thing over and over again.

Carroll

citfta,

It is difficult talking with a guy who doesn't understand circuits and terminology. He calls the electric terminals on the motor input and output. By definition, the output of an electric motor is the mechanical power at the shaft. The input is the electric terminals. On the DC motor, current flows in the + terminal and out of the - terminal. It is the same current which flows in as flows out. Therefore a pulse on the + is also a pulse on the -.

By convention, motor current flows from + to - inside the motor. The current pulse which gotoluc tested on the moddified motor and was confirmed by Matt in the discussion following the test was a negative current pulse meaning for a short time current flowed from the motor + back to the source. This negative current would necessarily also flow into the motor - terminal. So this negative current pulse would be a charge pulse on the motor power source and a load pulse on battery C.

What Turion talks about is the normal motor current which does charge battery C in the 3bgs, as I've said from the start. I never argued this. He seems to think I have.

Now it appears he believes that the Matt modded motor pluses battery C with charge pulses. Maybe, maybe not. Somebody with a functional 3bgs with boost converter and Matt modded motor could easily find out with a scope. I'm curious about it. I'm not saying he's wrong. But having the boost converter there might actually prevent that from happening, not by means of the diode, but due to the converter's regulation attempting to maintain the set output voltage. The converter output is across the motor terminals in the 3bgs, so wouldn't it keep the voltage on the motor constant at the set point?

This is why I put the question to you instead of Turion. I didn't want this drama. I was just looking for a valid reason of using the Matt modded motor when there is a boost converter there. I guess it boils down to because Turion thinks it is doing something but has no evidence or data to substantiate it.

Regards,

bi

[hherby]

...
I believe Dave has the negative of the boost module in the wrong place on the 3BGS drawing you posted. It should go to ground.
...

Carrol,
The drawing is correct. The negative of the boost module goes to battery C positive, not to ground. The Boost module and motor are running between the positives of the 3BGS.

Alex