3 Battery Generating System

[bistander]

Balance

... When he started using the 3BGS he was able to run his loads much longer by recycling some of the energy into recharging the battery in the 3rd position. He gave very high praises to Dave and the 3BGS because it allowed him to do more with the system he had. Most of the time his loads were not pulse charging battery 3 but he still got more run time from his batteries.
...

Thanks citfta and Turion,

citfta,

Did this guy ever measure or quantify his results? These successes always appear subjective to me. The restrictions like less than the 20 hour rate and battery swaps and rest periods mean a controlled test would require weeks with close attention. Otherwise, the fact that the 3bgs has significantly more batteries will yield longer run times not to mention the continual attention being a benefit to the 3bgs.

Back to the balance question, or answer, it looks like sizing the 3bgs system for the load is the only way. That doesn't seem practical for a home power system where the load is constantly changing. The primary purpose of batteries on home solar installations is to buffer or contend with varying loads, like night to day, or refrigerator or pumps cycling. So wouldn't the balanced 3gbs installation into an existing battery assisted home solar PV system double or triple the total battery count for the home owner?

citfta, are you using a 3bgs for anything useful? Is anybody here doing so?

You can take or leave it, but I've been involved with energy conversion and energy storage for 40 years. I've tested thousands of batteries and hundreds of motors and generators. I really like the modern Lithium based batteries and really hate the lead acid. I have no desire to increase the amount of lead acid on my property. In all of the testing on lead acid which I've done or studied, I've never seen more than a temporary improvement from pulse charging and never any indication of "running between positives" as beneficial. Just stating reasons that I'm not interested in building the 3bgs, as you always tell me to do. The only quantitative controlled test which I've seen does not support your 3bgs claims. Of course Turion objects to that test. All this time, has no one else instrumented and recorded data from a controlled 3bgs test?

Oh well, back to other stuff. Carry on.

bi

[citfta]

Hello bi,

What I found was as you have stated the most important part of the system is the load on the motor. As Dave has said many times most of the replicators that failed tried to do too much for the size of the batteries they were using. As you well know batteries will only take a charge at a certain rate determined by the condition of the battery and the capacity of the battery. Trying to force too much charge into the battery that is being charged will only result in more losses.

And as we also proved to ourselves many times, pulse charging the battery is a more efficient way to get charge back into the battery. In fact I just recently bought a commercial charger that uses pulse charging to condition and recharge the battery. The modified Matt motor gives us the pulse charging going to battery 3.

By keeping your load low and pulse charging battery 3 you WILL get longer run times than if you only ran that same load on the 3 batteries connected in parallel. As battery 3 gets charged then you swap it with the lower charged battery of the other two. And you keep doing that, recycling the energy from the batteries by charging one while discharging two. Of course the system will eventually run down so you need some means of recharging the batteries when that time comes.

This is NOT an overunity system. It is just a much more efficient way to use the power in batteries. Dave and I have a friend that used to live in Tennessee. He was living totally off the grid. He was using solar power to keep his storage batteries charged. I visited him and saw his system and very small home. When he started using the 3BGS he was able to run his loads much longer by recycling some of the energy into recharging the battery in the 3rd position. He gave very high praises to Dave and the 3BGS because it allowed him to do more with the system he had. Most of the time his loads were not pulse charging battery 3 but he still got more run time from his batteries.

So the "secret" to the 3BGS is to keep your load small in comparison to the battery size. If possible pulse charge battery 3. And finally you have to learn when is the best time to swap the batteries. And all of this takes time to learn. Some extra batteries also help because then you can allow them to rest between charging and discharging. This also helps to make the system more efficient.

Respectfully,
Carroll

PS:I see Dave was posting the same time I was.

[Turion]

Load

bi,
No drama. You asked a reasonable question and I will give you a reasonable answer. This has all been posted before, but it never hurts to remind people.

First, you have to remember that loads cannot be more than the C-20 rating oh the batteries. So you begin with the motor as the load on the primaries, as it is running between the positives. Put a small load on battery 3. You will notice that the motor speeds up because more amps are being pulled THROUGH the motor. . Wait five minutes. If nothing happens, put another small load on battery 3 and wait five minutes. If nothing happens continue to do this until the desired effect takes place.

The desired effect you are looking for is this...the motor immediately speeds up when you put the load on battery three, but if you have the system in BALANCE, within five minutes it will suddenly, for no apparent reason, speed up again. Ten years ago when I talked about this I said when this happens you are in the zone and you will get longer run times. But resonance is what is happening.

Remember,without the Matt motor you have NO real charging of battery 3 because it is not being pulsed the way it should be, so you won’t get extended run times anyway.

[bistander]

Balance

Voltan,

You are very correct. Dave has said the same thing many times and my own experience backs that up. You can't just throw something together and expect to get the same results Dave and several of the rest of us have gotten. You have to take the time to study and learn the system and that will lead you to learning how to keep everything in balance. If you don't do that you will get poor results. And it doesn't hurt to be reminded of that from time to time. Thanks for your thoughts.

Carroll

Hello citfta,

First. Just a simple question. No drama from others, if you know what I mean.

To me, balance means or implies adjusting or tuning. When I built the single battery, 2 boost converter circuit and tested it, it did require tuning. With it, I had the 2 boost modules, each with adjustment and the load resistance value which I could choose. Balance also infers a process of getting some parameters within a certain relationship. With the system which I built this was simply stability; that is to stop the hunting. It was a feedback system and exhibited classic feedback symptoms.

As I understand the basic 3bgs system, there is no tunable converters and the only way I can see to balance the system is to adjust the load. Is that correct? And then, because the load is not fedback to the input, stability should not be a big issue. So what parameters do you monitor to balance the system and how would that be done in practice where you have less control on the load?

Thanks,

bi

[citfta]

hi all. just wanted to add something. just an opinion, but i think it's important to remember that a load and a charge battery in series is always a voltage splitting combination. motors with load/no load are pushing back on the current flow,proper bemf, with varying force and batteries have varying levels of resistance depending on degree of sulfation,state of charge etc. i've often wondered if this is why 3bgs and derivative systems are hard to keep in balance, because the voltage across the motor or battery will fluctuate due to each other.
hopefully i'm not being captain obvious and a goose, but it seems like a critical aspect to me.
cheers.

Voltan,

You are very correct. Dave has said the same thing many times and my own experience backs that up. You can't just throw something together and expect to get the same results Dave and several of the rest of us have gotten. You have to take the time to study and learn the system and that will lead you to learning how to keep everything in balance. If you don't do that you will get poor results. And it doesn't hurt to be reminded of that from time to time. Thanks for your thoughts.

Carroll

[voltan]

hi all. just wanted to add something. just an opinion, but i think it's important to remember that a load and a charge battery in series is always a voltage splitting combination. motors with load/no load are pushing back on the current flow,proper bemf, with varying force and batteries have varying levels of resistance depending on degree of sulfation,state of charge etc. i've often wondered if this is why 3bgs and derivative systems are hard to keep in balance, because the voltage across the motor or battery will fluctuate due to each other.
hopefully i'm not being captain obvious and a goose, but it seems like a critical aspect to me.
cheers.

[wantomake]

Wrong battery again

Update.
Did try the 3BGS setup as per Dave's email today. Tried my old lithium battery packs I built, but the packs sit too long and lost too much amperage. Therefore will move three marine batteries over to try.

Nothing new to post but still trying to get back to testing and such.

wantomake

[wantomake]

Single battery circuit

To all,
Will setup the 3BGS today while looking at the SBC single battery circuit Dave posted.

Will try something Dave said per email. Want to try something with 3BGS first before trying the SBC on my work bench.

Only have one boost module left over from this summer's testing. Smoked my other one during that time.

Not wanting to keep this thread alive or create any new interest here. Just thought to drop some lines and say I'm still having coffee mornings and thinking about this system.

wantomake

[Turion]

Building

I am happy you are building it. Anything I can do to help, let me know. Best of luck to you.

[Mario]

Dave, I thought you'd be happy if someone else was building the generator?

cheers,
Mario

[Iamnuts]

Incredible accuracy.

The Kibble balance avoids the problems of measuring B and L with a second calibration step. The same wire (in practice, a coil of wire) is moved through the same magnetic field at a known speed v. By Faraday's law of induction, a potential difference U is generated across the ends of the wire, which equals BLv. Thus

U=BLv.

[Turion]

John,
That was over 40 years ago as I recall. Nothing new. And just because you can measure electricity accurately doesn’t mean you understand how it works. You don’t. Anybody who dismisses the importance of what we have shown with the 3 battery setup has completely missed the boat. But it is under sale and gaining speed every single day. You guys are going to be left so far behind it’s not even funny. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

[Iamnuts]

The new kilogram.

Look at this!!!!

There is a quantity that relates weight to electrical current, called Planck's constant - named after the German physicist Max Planck and denoted by the symbol h.

But h is an incredibly small number and to measure it, the research scientist Dr Bryan Kibble built a super-accurate set of scales. The Kibble balance, as it has become known, has an electromagnet that pulls down on one side of the scales and a weight - say, a kilogram - on the other.

The electrical current going through the electromagnet is increased until the two sides are perfectly balanced.

By measuring the current running through the electromagnet to incredible precision, the researchers are able to calculate h to an accuracy of 0.000001%.

This breakthrough has paved the way for Le Grand K to be deposed by "die kleine h".

I can't possibly see any scope for any design of generator to cheat nature
when the whole world (bar a certain few) agrees on something like this.

John.

[Mario]

Hi Dave,

I sent you a pm.

cheers,
Mario

[bistander]

Link

The link didn’t work,anyone interested it does on this thread.post 21.

* * The Universe from Nothing: T=0K. / by*Israel Socratus /

Thanks to Socratus.

John.

Here ya go. Try this.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/in...hermodynamics/