3 Battery Generating System

[thaelin]

Am trying to figure out which of these motors have the 4 brush pattern. It it the MY1020? I have a couple of the Razor but both are 2 brush type. Thanks.

thay

[mobigozer]

Wow Alex! Impressive material.

Lucky you still could write this message, and were not killed by your own hobby.. It's either your wife or your hobby that kills you in the end, right?

In my case it's my wife slowing me down on my projects ('can you do the dishes honey?'...).

Sofar I collected two 12 V used car-batteries and two 12 V lead-acid gel batteries of an electric skateboard. The car-batteries are 45 Ah and 55 Ah and the 2 skateboard batteries are 12 Ah each. I plan to connect the 2 car-batteries in series and connect the two board-batteries as the third battery but not in series, but connect the minus-pole to the minus-pole of the second car-battery.
Have some old 12v DC motors lying around here from electric powertools and will start experimenting. Like this thread very, very much. Thank you Matthew and Dave!

[hherby]

Generator Coil testing part 2

There were a couple of other reading from the LCR meter
that I took but I don't know what they mean.
Q = 15.2
Greek symbol Theta I think = 86.2 degrees
D = 0.065

Baseline Window motor readings - 12V battery with boost convertor
No coil, 14.2V, 0.4A 885 RPM
With open coil, 14.2V, 0.5A, 865 RPM, open coil voltage 90.2V
Shorted Coil, 14.2V, 0.8A, 825 RPM

Increased input to 25.2V
With open coil, 25.2V, 0.7A, 1575 RPM, open coil voltage 163.6V
Shorted Coil, 25.2V, 0.8A, 825 RPM
Connecting a 60W light bulb would really drag the rotor down and increase amps

Increased input to 37.8V
With open coil, 37.8V, 1.0A, 2362 RPM, open coil voltage 252.7V
Shorted Coil, 37.8V, 1.1A, 2345 RPM

Increased input to 50.4V
With open coil, 50.4V, 1.45A, 3090 RPM, open coil voltage 336.2V
Shorted Coil, 50.4V, 1.5A, 3076 RPM

Increased input to 55V
With open coil, 50.4V, 1.6A, 3350 RPM, open coil voltage 368V
Shorted Coil, 50.4V, 1.6A, 3340 RPM looking promising

Increased input to 60V
With open coil, 60V, 1.8A, 3620 RPM, open coil voltage 400V yikes!!!
Shorted Coil, 60V, 1.8A, 3610 RPM

The boost convertor would not go over 62.5V so I switched to a variac/bridge/cap setup
Increased input to 65V
With open coil, 65V, 1.9A, 3880 RPM, open coil voltage 434V
Shorted Coil, 65V, 1.9A, 3860 RPM

Increased input to 70V
With open coil, 70V, 2.1A, 4155 RPM, open coil voltage 471V
Shorted Coil, 70V, 2.1A, 4150 RPM getting closer

Increased input to 75V
With open coil, 75V, 2.3A, 4368 RPM, open coil voltage 500V
Shorted Coil, 75V, 2.3A, 4365 RPM almost there

Increased input to 80V

BOOM

When the dust cleared, I found it threw a magnet, destroyed most of the coils and broke some of the motor mounts. It really surprised me because
I had run the motor before in excess of 6000 RPM. On closer inspection, one
of the screws holding the magnet restraining straps had broke loose. I didn't
see any damage to my work shed and for the life of me I can't find the magnet.



From the trend, it looks like I would have achieved no speed decrease on
shorting somewhere between 4500 and 5000 RPM but alas I may never know Time to regroup.

I was getting nervous on how high the voltage was getting on that coil.
In hindsight, If I would have wrapped that coil with multiple strands of #18
in parallel, it would have had awesome output on the flux switching generator.

What I was planning on trying next in the generation sense was to put a Matt
stye Tesla switch transformer (2 primary windings and one secondary) I have in
series with the window motor coils with steering diodes on each primary so
the current could only flow in one direction in each primary winding as the bipolar switch changed polarity through the motor coils. With that setup I
could have useful motor torque for an external generator for free while the
output of the transformer could have
made up for the losses in the 3 battery configuration.


I could hook up the bipolar switch to an oscillator to drive the transformer
alone in the 3 battery setup which is what I will probably do because I
haven't decided if I will repair my window motor or not since I have the MY1016's and MY1020 coming. The nice thing about the window motor was
no heat in the coils or transistors. The only heat was in the 2W resistors in
the bipolar switch.

If that transformer doesn't work out, I have a couple of these honking Boyce
Toroids that I can try to do something with. They are Micrometals T650-52
which have an OD of 6.5" and an ID of 3.5" and about 1.5" thick.



When I get the MY1016 and get it rewound, I was thinking about running it
with a Half bipolar switch or an SG circuit controlled by an optical sensor to pulse and send the recovery to battery 3 during the motor on times similar to
what Joseph Newman was doing with his motor with the commutator. That
would also control input current of the MY1016.

Well, that is all I have to report at this time and will be out of town on
business most of next week. Hopefully the scooter motors will be here when I get back home.

Cheers all,
Alex

[hherby]

Generator Coil testing part 1

Hi all,
Hope everyone is high and dry, safe and healthy.

While I have been waiting for a couple of MY1016's and an MY1020 to come in, I have run some experiments using stuff I already built.

A little history. I had built a 10 pole window motor with 10 2"x1"x1" N42 neos
N S alternating on an 8" dia 2" thick rotor with a hall triggered sequential bipolar switch. The window coils are each 6 strands of #23 100' in parallel.
I run it with 2 coils in parallel.

Window Motor Front View


Window Motor Rotor and Coils


In all of the coil speed up under load test results I have seen here so far, it
looks like they were done using all N or all S facing magnets on the rotors.
I wanted to test alternating NS magnets and the window motor was perfect
to try this out since it has alternating poles on the rotor.

Objective: to test performance of a C core for a more closed magnetic loop.
Use alternating poles to increase AC amplitude.
Find a rotor speed/frequency that the coil would not drag when shorted and
hopefully speed up under load.

The Generator Coil is a laminated C core (E core with center leg cut out) with
1000 turns of #18 wire. Here are some electrical characteristics of the coil.
DCR= 4.2 ohms
L = 223 mH @ 1kHz
C = 111.5 nF @ 1kHz
R = 24.65 kOhms @ 1kHz

I didn't measure the length of the winding as I was just counting turns but
from tables and calculations, 4.2 Ohms would equate to about 610 feet which would be around 2.9222 lbs of copper.

Laminated C Core


Coil Side View


Coil End View


The coil was from a flux switch generator design of mine that I was building and testing. It was designed for 8 coils and 18 flux bars to reduce cogging
and to produce a 60 HZ output per coil at 200 rpm.


It turned out the rotor was warped so I could not control the gap.
The coil output was not great and I found out why in these new tests.

Continued in next post...
Alex

[wrtner]

These floods really emphasise the need for a generator of some sort for each household. Not much use if the water is waste high but as it drops, power may well still be off for some time. Each home should get a two pole three way switch for the consumer unit in readiness. It may all happen again. Good luck to you all.

[Matthew Jones]

Matthew,
Hoping you are safe and not flooded there in NC. Not sure exactly where you live in eastern NC.

wantomake

Not sure when we will be able to leave the area, like to go to town and stuff, all the bridges are flooded over some as high 4-6 ft higher than hurricane Matthew 2 years ago. One river down the road is 65 ft over flood stage.

And its still raining....!

We got almost 28 inch's yesterday.

Thats life today, brought to you by Carbon....

Matt

[wantomake]

Be safe

Matthew,
Hoping you are safe and not flooded there in NC. Not sure exactly where you live in eastern NC.

wantomake

[Netica]

I placed a diode between the boost converter and motor to isolate what happens on the motor side.
These pictures show voltage on both sides of the diode light blue is the motor side. Dark blue is the boost converter side.

The yellow is just a marker to show where where everything is happening throughout a full revolution.

And a pic of my 1020 motor

netica

[sunlight]

need advice to rewind

hello hi all I need advice to retry the rewinding of my motor, I do not know why the first it does not worked, MATT if you're here i need of help thank you.

[RAMSET]

Hoping you weather the next few days safely

Gonna be a ruff time indeed..lotsa water too.

will keep you in My thoughts ,and if you need stuff after its over

maybe we can help somehow ?

I truly hope it leaves you unscathed .

respectfully
Chet

[Matthew Jones]

I got ya, your doing the right thing. Was the motor originally 36 volt?

The brushes probably cover more than one segment.

Matt

[Netica]

There's actually 20 commutator spaces on a 1020 motor so i now have it divided into 3 spaces on and 2 spaces off (x4).

I was saying that I first tried 4 on and 1 off but this caused arcing and problems, and it won't work properly.

When I said 2 spaces resting I mean 2 spaces not connected in every 5 (3 being on) This then happens 4 times for the complete commutator of 20 sections.

[Matthew Jones]

Just thought i'd update on how my 1020 motor has been going.
I found that I did have to have two resting commutator sections instead of one, at low speed it wasn't so noticeable but higher revs showed alot of arcing and problems.
Thin connecting leads was also an issue when I first was trying it out.
All wiring and connectors are high rating now.

It takes alot of voltage to get it up to speed though.
It runs on between 1.2 and 1.3 amps but needing 40volts to hit around 3000rpm
I may have to change the winding to get higher revs at lower voltage but that will bring up the amps.
It is a larger motor so it will always have to be different than the 1016 in its specs. that it will run at.
It pulls around 5 amps at 12 volts before the step up. After being 1.2 to 1.3Amps at 40 volts.
I have got the motor running very smooth. And I think it is very close to the best I will get it for now, although winding another a little different would be good to compare.

netica

You should have 16 copper spaces on your commutator, 4 should not be hooked to wire. If you only have 2 then the power is shorting out.

hi all I need help, I finished my rewinding of my engine, when I tried to turn the motor, it turns and hangs I did the test under 12v and 24v and he a little warm, I used 24awg wire, I used three strands together to rewind, 40 turns for the first section then 30 turns for the second section and 30 turn for the third section, same for the opposite side, I do not know where I made a mistake.
thank best regard.sunlight

Well obviously if it hangs up when you power it, you got your wire messed up and its jamming the rotor. Rewind the rotor.


Matt

[sunlight]

hello need help

hi all I need help, I finished my rewinding of my engine, when I tried to turn the motor, it turns and hangs I did the test under 12v and 24v and he a little warm, I used 24awg wire, I used three strands together to rewind, 40 turns for the first section then 30 turns for the second section and 30 turn for the third section, same for the opposite side, I do not know where I made a mistake.
thank best regard.sunlight

[Netica]

Just thought i'd update on how my 1020 motor has been going.
I found that I did have to have two resting commutator sections instead of one, at low speed it wasn't so noticeable but higher revs showed alot of arcing and problems.
Thin connecting leads was also an issue when I first was trying it out.
All wiring and connectors are high rating now.

It takes alot of voltage to get it up to speed though.
It runs on between 1.2 and 1.3 amps but needing 40volts to hit around 3000rpm
I may have to change the winding to get higher revs at lower voltage but that will bring up the amps.
It is a larger motor so it will always have to be different than the 1016 in its specs. that it will run at.
It pulls around 5 amps at 12 volts before the step up. After being 1.2 to 1.3Amps at 40 volts.
I have got the motor running very smooth. And I think it is very close to the best I will get it for now, although winding another a little different would be good to compare.

netica