3 Battery Generating System

[fathershand]

Multiple Batts

Dave, Matt, my dead batteries start off at the voltages that I gave. During the run, the middle battery is still very near 0.0. The first battery goes up, and the last battery reverses polarity. When the run is over, they all come back to the original voltages. When I measure the resistance of these bad batteries, I get a direct short on two of them.

Further, when I connect the bad batteries per the schematic, I see a very small spark. However, when I used a different bad battery, which will take a little charge, and make that same connection, it gave me a tremendous spark and burned my wire and burned part of the battery post off.

Dave, how are we going to use more than 24V for our primaries, when the large motors we ultimately want to use will require 100+ volts?

I also recommend that the dead batteries be completely unconnected to the circuit when the test is over. I believe that they will drain the good batteries.

Tony

[fathershand]

Radiant Energy

What I'm encouraged by as much as anything is the spirit of cooperation on this thread. Lacking for the most part is any signs of ego.
I just wanted to say that studying proverbs chapters 1-10 has helped me with this setup. For someone who hasn't a clue (clueless) I only had one additional trip for connectors and in the midths of a "honey-dew" list I had every good excuse to fail but what I see is good results. Jesus has to be a part of that equation Who I called on for help.
I've gained voltage and power while basically running two motors for free. I can run longer tests but I despise wasting stuff and there is all this mechanical energy from the two motors that are just being ignored...at least by me and that is one reason my tests have been in the 10-15 minute area.
My sense tells me that this 3BGS can be used to quickly return a battery to full charge using one motor and no load on bat 3. Or a small load.
I noticed that with the smaller inverter and the same desk light that the cycle of speeding up and slowing down of the motors were related I am just not certain which caused which.
Can anyone give me a clue as to how I might be able to stabilize the current on bat 3 with a load on the inverter.

Clueless, I depend on Jesus for every part of my life. It takes more that knowledge to do what we am doing in this field. Everyday, I ask the Holy Spirit to guide me and lead me into ALL Truth. The energy we are seeking is really God's energy. It is what runs the universe, and what He gave us for free to use for our needs. If we ask Him for help, He will surely give it.

Tony

[Turion]

fathershand,
I was having that same issue with the bottom battery reversing polarity, and I wasn't able to get my inverter to come on at all connected to my middle battery because the voltage in it was NOT coming up high enough to get the inverter to run. That's what Matt and I were talking about a few posts back. If you do not have enough voltage in the middle bad battery to get your inverter to come on and start using energy, the two outside bad batteries start charging up and things overheat. If the middle battery has too MUCH voltage there is ALSO a shutoff in the inverter that won't let it come on, so you have to operate in that "window" to be successful. I haven't been successful with this new schematic yet either, and won't get a chance to work on it until Monday. I'm putting my big resister on a switch so I can keep an eye on the voltage on the middle bad battery. Disconnect the resister until the voltage gets high enough and then monitor it and if the voltage starts to go too high (which I hope it won't do) flip the switch and engage the resister. That's MY plan anyway. And you could try the diodes Matt suggested. I may end up trying that too.

Dave

[FRC]

I have been working the last few days but want to try to
this.latest setup of Matt's on Monday. The only inverter I
have with me now is a 75 watt one. I did bring back one
working bad battery 3 with me and I think I have 2 dead
batteries here. But I wish I was still at my house to try
these latest setups. At least I have more money here
and better access to components that might be needed.

George

[citfta]

When I measure the resistance of these bad batteries, I get a direct short on two of them.

Tony

Hi Tony,

When Matt and Dave are talking about dead batteries they are meaning batteries that have become sulphated so bad the internal resistance is almost infinite NOT shorted. If you have shorted batteries it will not work like this because all the power of the good batteries will backfeed through the shorted batteries. If you don't have any other batteries you might try Matt's idea of using diodes to isolate them from backfeeding.

Glad to see some other followers of Jesus on this project too!

Carroll

[Neight]

"It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive."

Miracle Max from "The Princess Bride"
(Sorry, I apologize to one and all! My kids LOVED that movie and I must heard those lines a million times!"

Dave

apologize? why, that is a great movie, I still watch it fairly regularly to this day, and can't wait until my daughter is old enough to watch it with me
I can quote large sections of it, and am quite happy to admit it.

ok, back on target...
I really think I have some good candidates for bad batteries to run this latest setup. I am going to walmart on monday morning to pick up a small inverter, or somewhere if I can't find one I want @ walmart.
I am going to be trying this with smaller batteries, so who knows what will happen, but I think if I can load up the motor enough, I can keep this running for a while and hopefully get some good results to post back.
ASAP I am going to get some bigger good batteries, and a bigger inverter, but for now I have to use what I have, and I honestly can't resist giving it a shot, small batteries or not...
good or bad, I should have some results to report on monday if all goes as planned.

[fathershand]

Bad Battery Checks

Hi Tony,

When Matt and Dave are talking about dead batteries they are meaning batteries that have become sulphated so bad the internal resistance is almost infinite NOT shorted. If you have shorted batteries it will not work like this because all the power of the good batteries will backfeed through the shorted batteries. If you don't have any other batteries you might try Matt's idea of using diodes to isolate them from backfeeding.

Glad to see some other followers of Jesus on this project too!

Carroll

Carroll, I did some more checks on the bad battery # 2 and on the good battery #3.

Here are my results:
In the following, P/P means placing the meter's positive lead on the positive battery terminal. N/P means placing the meter's negative lead on the positive battery terminal;

For Bad Battery #2:
With the meter set to "diode check and tone", P/P yields tone and 4 Ohms;
With the meter set to "diode check and tone", N/P yields tone and -1 Ohms;
With the meter set to 200 Ohms range, P/P yields 4.7 Ohms;
With the meter set to 200 Ohms range, N/P yields -2.2 Ohms;

For Good Battery #3:
With the meter set to "diode check and tone", P/P yields infinite;
With the meter set to "diode check and tone", N/P yields tone and -252 Ohms;
With the meter set to ANY Ohms range, P/P yields infinite Ohms;
With the meter set to ANY Ohms range, N/P yields infinite Ohms;

When I say "infinite", I mean that the meter shows 1, which is what comes up when you turn it on the resistance scale before doing any tests.

No matter what I do to charge the bad batteries, they won't hold and fall down almost immediately after the cables are removed.

Carol, please try these tests on your good and bad battery and tell me what you think of my results.

Carol, Jesus is my Life. My mission in this life is to be His Ambassador.
Blessings on you!
Tony

[fathershand]

Diodes

fathershand,
I was having that same issue with the bottom battery reversing polarity, and I wasn't able to get my inverter to come on at all connected to my middle battery because the voltage in it was NOT coming up high enough to get the inverter to run. That's what Matt and I were talking about a few posts back. If you do not have enough voltage in the middle bad battery to get your inverter to come on and start using energy, the two outside bad batteries start charging up and things overheat. If the middle battery has too MUCH voltage there is ALSO a shutoff in the inverter that won't let it come on, so you have to operate in that "window" to be successful. I haven't been successful with this new schematic yet either, and won't get a chance to work on it until Monday. I'm putting my big resister on a switch so I can keep an eye on the voltage on the middle bad battery. Disconnect the resister until the voltage gets high enough and then monitor it and if the voltage starts to go too high (which I hope it won't do) flip the switch and engage the resister. That's MY plan anyway. And you could try the diodes Matt suggested. I may end up trying that too.

Dave

Dave, can you please give a schematic on how to arrange the diodes for this new circuit? Thanks!

Until we are more certain about this, I am using a fan in place of the inverter. I have already ruined one inverter and only have one left.

Tony

[Turion]

It's already in the first post on this page. Matt posted a huge picture of it WITH the two diodes in place.

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

For Bad Battery #2:
With the meter set to "diode check and tone", P/P yields tone and 4 Ohms;
With the meter set to "diode check and tone", N/P yields tone and -1 Ohms;
With the meter set to 200 Ohms range, P/P yields 4.7 Ohms;
With the meter set to 200 Ohms range, N/P yields -2.2 Ohms;

This battery has a short. Lower the resistance the more power will travel through.

Also this is elementary stuff. Electric 101 stuff.

Matt

[ewizard]

I bought a motorized treadmill yesterday (only $20 at garage sale) thinking it would have a nice big DC motor in it I could try with this. It turned out to be a 1HP AC motor Nice smooth motor but no good for this.

I thought they all ran DC motors on treadmills or I would have looked before buying.

Glad to see so many involved in this and that there are some interesting results.

[citfta]

For Tony

Hi again,

Trying to measure the internal resistance of a battery with a regular ohm meter is not really a good idea. If there is any residual charge at all in the battery you are going to get a false reading. Also some meters can be damaged by the residual charge. The following is my idea for how to tell if you have a usable "bad" battery. If there is anyone with a better idea please share what you know.

Go back to the original setup with 2 good batteries and 1 bad battery and the motor. If the motor starts as soon as you connect it to the bad battery then the battery is not going to work as a wing battery. If you check the voltage across that battery with the motor running you will see it is very low. This is because of the internal short. If adding a load to the motor only raises the voltage a small amount this is further proof the battery has a short and will not work.

If you connect the circuit and the motor does not run then you may have a usable "bad" battery. I have one "bad" battery that will not even allow the motor to run after waiting for 30 minutes or so. I am using it as one of my wing batteries. My other battery I was using for a wing is now wanting to take a charge so I am going to have to find another or use Matt's idea of trying the diodes.

To repeat what Matt has said and I said earlier you CANNOT use a battery that has a short as one of your wing batteries. That is unless Matt's idea of the diodes works which I don't think anyone has tried yet. You also cannot use a shorted battery as the middle battery of the 3 "bad" batteries because you would never be able to balance the load between the battery and the motor. I hope this helps everyone realize what we mean by a bad battery.

Matt or Dave, if either one of you disagree with my suggestions please feel free to correct my mistakes.

Carroll

[Matthew Jones]

Spot On!! That should do it every time.

Matt

[Turion]

I agree. That lines up with what I have found so far too. I use my "self made bad" battery that I put metal shavings in for my #3 in the three battery system and can get the primaries to hold, but trying to match loads with the motor by adding loads to that battery is like trying to hit a moving target. (One that keeps moving after you hit it)

Dave

[fathershand]

My Bad

You have to look at each battery while the system is running. If the wing batteries come up while your running they are not dead enough, most sincerly...

If it continues to be problem I guess you could add diodes and just hook them to the primary hookup.




I have not tried it though but it might have the same effect.

Matt

ALL, sorry my mistake. I didn't see that this schematic was different that the last one by Matt. I will try it.

Matt, thanks for posting this "new and improved version". I especially like the large dot connections and the "jump over" wire path.

Tony P.S. Matt, I never passed Electric 101. I was absent on the day of the test.