3 Battery Generating System

[Turion]

Videos

I have seen some of the YouTube videos of folks running a motor in the 3 Battery system turning a simple generator to which a light or lights are connected.

As soon as I see that I know that the person who posted the video has yet to understand what we are trying to show.

The output of that generator is a source of HIGH potential, just like the two batteries are in the three battery system. The load should be running BETWEEN the positive of the generator and a lower potential source, like a cap or a battery.

[liber63]

Much appreciated Mat! Your words is like Bible for Christians to me. Next week I will go and buy necessary stuff and get my head down to work. I need to try this first and show my friend the actual results on 3BGS as he is not very enthusiastic. Then, later I can go on for the bigger generator with his help.
I will be testing and sharing as Wantomake recommends.

[wantomake]

Test machine

One thing is needed to understand and improve any FE idea. Dave said from the beginning pages that the more people are building this setup then the many ideas and tests can be condensed into a workable blueprint.

Each idea needs a testing machine. There are several factors that must work together to get the results needed.
Coil size, output, capacitance
Rotor size, number magnets, speed, lenz effects
Prime mover or motor/generator
Circuitry used

I speak for myself only. A good crafted testing machine with all the factors to work as the above mentioned takes time and money. Wasting either one isn't good.

Plan a good testing machine that you can adjust or change any part of it as needed.
Listen, take notes, ask questions, of those that have done this build already.
Share and help others as you can.

wantomake
Edit: Matthew didn't see your post. So use all the commutator slots ? No skipping one slot as with the modified motor? I guess wind as much 18-20 awg that will fit on the rotor? The generator from my videos is stripped and sitting on my desk. Was thinking to re-wire it and use it for testing the old setup or send it to a deserving builder here. Thanks.

[Matthew Jones]

I never turned one into a generator but I would figure 1 strand of 18-20 awg would do it. I would also use all 4 commutator slots for the beginning and ends. No dead space. Use a shotkey diode bridge (4 diodes) on the output. Add a 1000 volt 1000 pf AC cap across both of the output leads.

So with 4 slots on the commutator filled that should induce a short at the peak current point reducing some/all of the drag. The short is going to spike, the cap will help hold that down a little. Depending on what you have on the system you may not need it. Just a battery you can skip it. If you have an Arduino hooked up to the system I would make sure to use it plus a small EMI filter on the input of the Arduino.

If you can crank it around 4500 rpms or better you should probably see 30 - 40 volt around 2-3 amp under load. You may want to find a buck converter to get the voltage in line with your battery if the output is higher than 32v under load.

If your really handy you could build a box around it and put some neo's on the box. Wrap the neo's outside the box with sheet metal to raise the interior induction.

Matt

[liber63]

Bro, I understand thin wire is difficult. But I 'd rather have amps as well, so I am not planning to put thin wire anyway. For the sake of space I won't be using a very thick one too. So, something in the mid, around 23 and 12 strands and see how it goes.

[BroMikey]

I remember Mat said that if we wound the 3 strands (or more) together
and connect them in series, it would be a reduced lenz but high voltage.

Has anyone tried anything of the kind?

No I didn't know that. I thought of it tho. I thought (this was before)
maybe if I did some strands in parallel then connect them in series I
might reach a null point or close to the null. Null meaning generator coils
that do not drag down the scooter motor acting as a generator instead of
a drive motor. Here is what I have found. With a 9" dia magnet rotor
(where the magnets sit on a 10 inch wheel and a very close gap to my
cores I needed 6 strands (#29 ) of 170 feet all in series. The small motor has
a real short rotor distance to the magnets, this plays a part. So many
hundred miles an hour with the large rotor or however you want to look
at it.

I was going to see if i could modify a scooter motor so I reasoned to get
say half of what the big rotor had on it, I would consider 500 feet. So I
would need tiny wire say 30awg using 5 or 6 strands? Somewhere around
that I think. Or was it 40awg, well I'll have to go figure.

The space on the rotor of a scooter frame is small and I would
probably not get 1 amp, 1/2 amp? I think 1/2 amp at all the voltage I
needed. The voltage might be around 300vac but at only half amp.

But when loaded of course my 300v winding will drop way down to the
work it is doing, such as a 110v led light bulb at low amps. It works
right after you rectify, use fast acting or fast recovery diodes to save
energy.

The 3 strands in series would use much thicker wire so a guy gets some
amps and then your voltage would be closer to the number needed to do
battery charging without converters.

In this setting with the 3 strands I do no think any lenz free generation
is achieved, just a prefect output for charging a 24vdc pack.

On the other hand if you want to go the other way to experiment with
these small frames with rotors having winding, you need fine wire and lots
of it. For 29awg wire I needed 1000 feet at 3200 rpm's, those magnets
are really moving on a 9" circle.

Let's say I did it and got a lenz free winding. Next step would be to build
10 more so i could get a nice output. However the other way turns out
to be easier than 6 -10 scooter motors made into lenz free generators.

But it could be done maybe. The thing is with 6 or 8 scooter motors
acting as generators you will have a bunch of friction loss with all of those
shafts and two bearings on each.

Also a word of warning: Those little motors were hard just to get a single
strand wound around the rotor without damaging it so a dead short appears.
I wound one rotor with heavy wire 3 or 4 times to get it to work. Fine
delicate wire is going to need extra care, be ready to throw away lots
of wire.


PS I am building small rotors and doing some work on a huge rotor. Waiting
on parts and money is no fun yet I still have plenty to do. Working.

[liber63]

Yes, I see. For motor mode is just right the way it is.
I had a test few weeks ago with my big mod motor as motor connected to 2 other connected in series stock motors, as generators! The output was directed to the primaries. I used 3rd battery(bank) to power 64 watts for 4 hours!! and the primaries lost less than 1/10 of a volt. Not to mention the excellent charged 3rd battery bank! So definitely i was very impressed. The winding as suggested is excellent no doubt for motor mode. I am wondering for generator mode as there is no info yet, if anybody tried different things. I think only 3 strands in series is too little to show anything. I still might give it a try with more, at least 6, most likely 9 and play a lot with timing and rpms. We'll see. I think by doing this i also follow Matt's suggestions as i remember. If not, I welcome corrections.

[wantomake]

Tried it

liber63,
I did attempt the 3 wires parallel series connected winding for my generator but, it was same output as 3 wires parallel connected.

I also tried 10 wires parallel connected in my mod. motor and it ran hot with extremely high amp draw.

For myself following Matthews directions exactly gave best results. I have motor and generator setup the same. Btw that's the setup I used in my videos and had no voltage decreases.

But sometimes it's a waste of time or a good learning experience. For me the latter.

wantomake

[liber63]

Hi guys, thanks a lot!
Yes you are all right. I had tried and replaced everything but the dvm. When I put the analog the readings where rock stable.
So now i can continue my tests.
All my tests show power in to power out is 3 to 1(I mean small mod motor coupled to bigger mod motor as gen-just a test setup). Of course I know if put at the 3BGS this 1/3 of power is completely free. Done it before many tests, but not with the bonus of Mat's modified Motor.
I remember Mat said that if we wound the 3 strands (or more) together and connect them in series, it would be a reduced lenz but high voltage. Has anyone tried anything of the kind? I am thinking to start winding another motor in this way. Any suggestions would be appreciated, even to discourage me from doing so.
I know I'm a bit behind of what this thread has come to, with the bigger generator and coils and all info of how speeding under load works. But, each one has his own pace.

[bistander]

Voltmeter

... Does anyone know how to be able to make meter show the exact voltage?

Hi liber,

The mods made to the motors cause transients (sparks). That plays hell with a dvm. An analog voltmeter may dampen the signal and give you an average reading. Or maybe a much larger capacitor?

bi

[wantomake]

[/QUOTE][/B]

I am jealous. Definitely I will do that in due time. Have to finish some other problems first. Thank you wantomake for the detailed progress. It will be very helpful.
The modified motor I made with my friend can be made better. After all it was my first try. These days myself alone(!) I rewound the small MY1016, I made three strands to one litz wire and corrected the timing. The motor runs cool. 3300rpm-15V-0,73A and 5620rpm-24V-1,57A.
One thing I cannot understand is that connected to bigger mod motor which I test as generator and the output through bridge and capacitor, the voltmeter still goes all around the place and I cannot take measurments. The capacitor I put in parallel. Does anyone know how to be able to make meter show the exact voltage?

Liber63,
Nice job and good to see other builders!!!

Try better connectors, a different FWBR then different values capacitors.

Glad to help if I can.
wantomake
Edit: My meter does that with low battery at times. Check it.

[gyula]

Hi liber63,

I assume you already checked the followings:
-- diode bridge is good, no defective diode in it
--all the wires connections to and from the diode bridge towards the capacitor and the lamp load and analog ampermeter are ok
--capacitor is not defective

Now the next step if the above checks seem ok would be to run your motor from a 5-6 VDC only to have a low rpm for the bigger mod motor i.e. for your generator and measure DC voltage across the capacitor, without a lamp load.

When you turn the shaft of the bigger motor alone by your hand, is there any voltage appearing across the capacitor your volmeter can measure?

Does the lamp load illuminate when you put it across the capacitor? Or directly across the bigger motor output?

Gyula

[liber63]

I am jealous. Definitely I will do that in due time. Have to finish some other problems first. Thank you wantomake for the detailed progress. It will be very helpful.
The modified motor I made with my friend can be made better. After all it was my first try. These days myself alone(!) I rewound the small MY1016, I made three strands to one litz wire and corrected the timing. The motor runs cool. 3300rpm-15V-0,73A and 5620rpm-24V-1,57A.
One thing I cannot understand is that connected to bigger mod motor which I test as generator and the output through bridge and capacitor, the voltmeter still goes all around the place and I cannot take measurments. The capacitor I put in parallel. Does anyone know how to be able to make meter show the exact voltage?

[wantomake]

2nd Generator/Motor

Here is the progress thus far. 14" x 14" coil holders and ends. The rotor is 10 3/4" diameter with 2" magnets.

Will try to get rotor and shaft in tomorrow or Sunday. Dave mentioned a certain method to use the bearings with threaded rod/shaft. Will try that with bearing brackets on end boards.

wantomake
PS: 1st generator/motor never got to this point.

[ATTACH]20577[/ATTACH][ATTACH]20578[/ATTACH][ATTACH]20579[/ATTACH]

[wantomake]

Good Friday !!!!!

Good coffee and Friday with spring temps here in SC !!!!!!

Got the Temco wire in yesterday. So will be looking forward to the winding machine due before Tuesday. Did get the 3/4" x 14" x 14" holders and sides of the vertical generator/motor finished. Hope to drill dowel and shaft holes today. The five positions for the coils was fun but done.

The mags are 2" wide with 3/4" wide coil cores, not sure that matters as long as I get the air gap correct. Will be using welding rods as core material at first. As the research into better core material advances, so will mine.
The rods will extend 3/4" on both ends of the end piece boards to hold the coils in place. That idea may change.

Trying to build a frst time machine that can be upgraded/adjusted as testing progresses isn't so easy. But I'm encouraged by the generous donors for parts and advice to get me off my retired butt and challenging this old coffee sipper.

Dang what a good feeling to witness this birth of a generator/motor I've never built before,
wantomake