3 Battery Generating System

[penno64]

Dave, stop with the teasing.

Seriously, good luck, god knows you put enough effort in to this - I hope
you reap the rewards.

Regards, Penno

[mikehull]

Interest from a complete newbie

Hi Dave,

This is my first post on the forum. I have been arround for a short while and have been following the 3 battery thread. It has taken me a while to read all the past posts and I have also been following UFOPolitics' threads (that takes a lot of reading too)

Whilst i do not understand all the theoretical discussions I am very interested in the practical aspects of these projects. I am assembling equipment to start my own replications but I haven't got there yet.

The main point of this post is to let you know that people are interested in your progress. The practical contributions to this field by you, UFOPolitics, Matthew Jones and everyone else is tremendous.

Please continue to let us know how things are going.

Thanks

Mike

[tachyoncatcher]

Busy

Dude! I'm building and testing. I'm working on that 3rd battery replication. Ive been playing chemist. I've had some success with regular LA batteries instead of the AGMs. I tried the AGMs with no luck. My premise is based on that magical SLA I told you about. Yeah, i know, my language is not very scientific, but it's fun! We need to be able to duplicate that third battery. The "negative resistor" of the circuit. Also, when you add load to this puppy, the motor revs, the voltage on the load side drops and you scramble to get the motor loaded down to bring up your voltage. I think we need a voltage control circuit tied to a generator hooked to that motor would keep it under control so your voltage on the load side is constant. Dave, there is no doubt this works. We just have to get it under control. Lots of building. Then there's that annoying problem of earning a living. Sucks my time.
Randy

[jpolakow]

Hi Dave & all (Thanks for the email the other day by the way) I'm glad to see you have your original set up running again perhaps a bit of rhyme and reason might present itself and everything will become replicable .. and if that happened David the World power system would alter almost immediately, Its certainly one hell of a goal to aim for! Anyway as you know I watch this thread with interest and just occasionally have a friendly ramble, which might strike a cord with some one and prompt a lucky discovery, I think Its a fair guess to say some thing is in “Resonance” in your system in fact time and time again the word “tune” appears in the narrative but tune to what? There are actually two resonances in electrical theory only one of which is taught and admitted and which we have all the maths and calculations for, and one that’s deeply buried. I think its a very safe bet that your system is working on this hidden resonance. Take your commutator motor It is if nothing else a very fast switch It seems to me that all COP>1 have a fast switch in one form or another all be it in the form of a spark gap or hard on hard off electronic switch. Consider this circuit it has much in common with your original battery circuit except the sparking armature is replaced with vibrating contacts.

The battery is connected externally as is the load .. this things original job was to run US army 24 volt radio equipment from a 12 volt battery and it physically looks like this -
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V...2/img20851.jpg

yeah yeah so what ? Well its been noted that under certain “Freak” circumstances you could turn the thing off and it would keep powering things , That machine is the very thing EPD is talking about here
Part 6 of 6: Eric Dollard & Chris Carson Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio - YouTube
and so does this ring any bells ? And so It now begs a question (with me at least) is there a point where a battery will be “resonant” to this high frequency (untaught linear) wave and how might we be able to “tune” to it?
Needs must I say here .. as I'm sure you all aware there are quite a lot of systems that can be driven COP<1
usually with difficulty and not a little danger one of these is the rotoverter, As I’m sure your aware this system has been looped on occasion by several people unfortunately there seems to be murder and threats involved, However I direct you to page 6 of this PDF and “Layman’s looping analogy”
http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/Advan...evelopment.pdf
It is made quite clear that batteries can be made “resonant” Stochastic resonance that is yes sir If I had to make my guess that’s it! How to tune to such a beast ?
How about a “Big daddy” ATU so you could put a full standing wave on the battery and see the forward and reflected wave? Again just a guess but as Hector and EPD have explained simple radio theory is key (simple to those two boffin s anyway) not so simple to nit wits like me but as Its already been pointed out that a battery is little more than a giant capacitor so how about tuning to resonance with a large version of the historical animal “The variocoupler” here shown as part of historical radio gear
http://www.atwaterkent.info/Articles/AKRA0512.pdf
although of course for tuning to a motors and batteries I dare say It’ll have to be wound on a waste bin or some such – anyway just chewing the fat, and injecting some food for thought, very interesting thread and I'm delighted Mk one is running again. Keep up the great work and good luck amigos

Hey guys,
I don't want to butt in to your discussion but I saw this post and felt I should respond. I personally have seen this device in operation, the PP-18. It doesn't generate a large amount of energy, but enough to keep a a small indicator bulb running for about 5 minutes, long after the capacitors should have been emptied. It only generates energy when the switch contacts are just right.

The principal under which the PP 18 synthesizes energy isn't stochastic resonance, but parameter variation, what eric has been saying all along. What that means is varying the magnitude of the storage parameter synchronously, whether that be capacitance, inductance, or conductance. The PP-18 is constantly switching between caps in parallel and series, varying the net capacity. Also Chris Carson was able to do this with his rotary electrostatic converter, synthesizing energy.

Recently Dave (Web00X) was able to do it with a magamp, varying the parameter of inductance. I've been working on it as well, haven't gotten the results he's achieved yet, but I'm almost there.
For some reference-
Dave's Results: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...dollard-6.html
Thread on Magamps: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...7-magamps.html
Parameter Variation Thread showing BH curves of Daves Magamp: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...m-papalex.html
Excellent Posting by Garrett making a variable reluctance motor demonstrating the principle: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ollard-30.html
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...dollard-6.html

[Turion]

Well, they say lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place, which we all know isn't true, and I have had THREE different chances to figure this silly thing out now. It will work when I let my bad battery set for a few days and then hook everything up with my primaries COMPLETELY charged. Then it charges the primaries beyond what my charger will charge them to while running the motor with a load. And they STAY at that higher charge and even creep up a little after the system is shut off and I let them rest. It's almost is if when you let it just RUN, it changes the battery chemistry. It makes me want to PULSE the whole setup so that whatever is happening to the battery isn't continuous and perhaps it would remain in the "zone" longer or just STAY there.

Dave

[Duncan]

Thanks for the links

Oh I agree with every word jpolakow! But do bear in mind I (and of course everyone else) is trying to describe an effect which we see and feel and (In my case at least) have only a tentative understanding of. Added to all this there is no language verbally or mathematically to describe the effects.
I am aware of some of the magnificent work that’s been done by E.P.D putting units and engineer-able quantities in this area of darkness. Here lies the heart of the problem jpolakow I probably don’t fully understand exactly what you mean by “parameter variation” and you probably don't fully understand what I mean by “stochastic resonance” painting with a very broad brush I would say that parameter variation of the correct amount leads to “Stochastic resonance” which in turn is one of the conditions of C.O.P < 1
This is because “Stochastic resonance” is really nothing more than the resonance point of noise, or if you like tuning to the ambient surroundings or the Aether (if you prefer Tesla speak), As this is where we wish to extract energy this makes some sort of sense doesn't it ?
The term “Stochastic” seems to have Its seeds in the Stock and forex markets where the money grubbers have made extensive use of it in order to try and identify the “noise” and remove it from their charts and calculations .To be honest the idea of “resonant noise” seems a basic contradiction to me but I'm not going to argue with the higher maths guys! I’ve added it here because I noted it being used to effectively describe what you term “parametric variation” held at the correct point to thus induce “stochastic resonance” That of course begs the question where have I coined the term from? Well I'm not going to bomb you with half a dozen threads jpoalakow but I certainly wouldn't have the nous to develop or understand such a term myself, and keeping in mind that we sadly lack a glossary of terms let alone units and added to that, even the outskirts of the subject are taught very differently to heavy power, electronics, and radio engineers. This term Stochastic I first came across being used by Hector in this description of a looped Rotoverter (page 14)

http://www.byronwine.com/files/plans.pdf

whilst It may not be technically 100% correct in the absence of anything else It seems very close to what I see happening. There is much more on this special almost “anti resonant” state expounded on in this PDF. and w.r.t the three battery system I would direct to page 11 which seems significant as the Battery condition as a huge Cap "Varactor" is amplified

http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/Advan...evelopment.pdf

As you are all probably only to well aware there has been a lot of aggressive unpleasentness directed at people and their machines driven COP <1 by these methods you can of course research yourselfs from this thread

Rotoverter Technology was OU before ORBO one.

although of course It is the Maths, the terminology and the principles I am pointing at here as regards the three battery system, PP18 vibrating contacts, parametric machines, Transverters (Mag-amps) or any other system for that matter

It goes without saying jpoakow that the guy who finally writes a glossary with full definitions and units which is universal across the electrical trades will have performed an inestimable service.
Meanwhile I am reasonably certain we are both shouting the same information from different windows in the tower of Babel.
However Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my muse, I will certainly take a little time out to study the links you have posted
Regards Duncan P.S regarding Magamp you might like to have a look around here TransVerter / Part 1 - YouTube & here TV-part I - YouTube

P.P.S Shylo ... you might also notice extensive use of the afore mentioned A.V plug in order to extract this power … along with neon wave clipping and a host of other techniques

[jpolakow]

Oh I agree with every word jpolakow! But do bear in mind I (and of course everyone else) is trying to describe an effect which we see and feel and (In my case at least) have only a tentative understanding of. Added to all this there is no language verbally or mathematically to describe the effects.
I am aware of some of the magnificent work that’s been done by E.P.D putting units and engineer-able quantities in this area of darkness. Here lies the heart of the problem jpolakow I probably don’t fully understand exactly what you mean by “parameter variation” and you probably don't fully understand what I mean by “stochastic resonance” painting with a very broad brush I would say that parameter variation of the correct amount leads to “Stochastic resonance” which in turn is one of the conditions of C.O.P < 1
This is because “Stochastic resonance” is really nothing more than the resonance point of noise, or if you like tuning to the ambient surroundings or the Aether (if you prefer Tesla speak), As this is where we wish to extract energy this makes some sort of sense doesn't it ?
The term “Stochastic” seems to have Its seeds in the Stock and forex markets where the money grubbers have made extensive use of it in order to try and identify the “noise” and remove it from their charts and calculations .To be honest the idea of “resonant noise” seems a basic contradiction to me but I'm not going to argue with the higher maths guys! I’ve added it here because I noted it being used to effectively describe what you term “parametric variation” held at the correct point to thus induce “stochastic resonance” That of course begs the question where have I coined the term from? Well I'm not going to bomb you with half a dozen threads jpoalakow but I certainly wouldn't have the nous to develop or understand such a term myself, and keeping in mind that we sadly lack a glossary of terms let alone units and added to that, even the outskirts of the subject are taught very differently to heavy power, electronics, and radio engineers. This term Stochastic I first came across being used by Hector in this description of a looped Rotoverter (page 14)

http://www.byronwine.com/files/plans.pdf

whilst It may not be technically 100% correct in the absence of anything else It seems very close to what I see happening. There is much more on this special almost “anti resonant” state expounded on in this PDF. and w.r.t the three battery system I would direct to page 11 which seems significant as the Battery condition as a huge Cap "Varactor" is amplified

http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/Advan...evelopment.pdf

As you are all probably only to well aware there has been a lot of aggressive unpleasentness directed at people and their machines driven COP <1 by these methods you can of course research yourselfs from this thread

Rotoverter Technology was OU before ORBO one.

although of course It is the Maths, the terminology and the principles I am pointing at here as regards the three battery system, PP18 vibrating contacts, parametric machines, Transverters (Mag-amps) or any other system for that matter

It goes without saying jpoakow that the guy who finally writes a glossary with full definitions and units which is universal across the electrical trades will have performed an inestimable service.
Meanwhile I am reasonably certain we are both shouting the same information from different windows in the tower of Babel.
However Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my muse, I will certainly take a little time out to study the links you have posted
Regards Duncan P.S regarding Magamp you might like to have a look around here TransVerter / Part 1 - YouTube & here TV-part I - YouTube

P.P.S Shylo ... you might also notice extensive use of the afore mentioned A.V plug in order to extract this power … along with neon wave clipping and a host of other techniques

Hi Duncan,
Good response. The way I differentiate between stochastic resonance and parameter variation is two fold. First where stochastic resonance is referred to as "noise", it would seem the noise would be unintentional, or not necessarily controllable. More like your tuning according to the inherent property of the noise in the circuit, device, whatever. With parameter variation, the variation is Intentional. Which means you are controlling the changes, making it vary as you see best.

Secondly, where stochastic resonance is descriptive of a certain type of resonance, parameter variation actually refers to a process: you are changing, or varying a parameter. Here I am distinguishing "parameter variation", from "parametric resonance". The parameter we are varying is storage. You could say a coil "stores" magnetism, while a capacitor "stores" an electrostatic charge. What happens if you change the amount of storage of a lumped element while it is storing something?

That is what we are doing. There are many different possibilities including the seeming "creation" of energy, or "destruction" of energy, that is without it being exchanged into heat or some other type of energy. The issue is complex, and the timing is very critical. Also to note is that the storage element (coil or capacitor) must be storing energy at the time the parameter is changed. That is, you cant create something from nothing, so It requires you have some energy to begin with. Parameter variation can "amplify" that energy so to speak.

With the magamp, it is similar to a transformer but behaves nothing like it. You could say any given core in a transformer can hold a certain amount of magnetism, or magnetic flux before it saturates. The inductance of a coil is based on a few different factors: # of turns, permeability of the core, and core cross sectional area. We can vary the inductance of a coil by varying any one of these 3 things. With the magamp we are varying the permeability of the core by alternating between saturating and desaturating the core synchronously.

I have heard of the rotoverter and transverter. I know very little about the rotoverter except that it is a 3 phase motor with a capacitor across one of the phases, creating a "ghost" phase. Incidentally, I have heard of it being referred to as a rotary magamp, but I do not know this from personal knowledge. The transverter, as I perceive it, operates on the principle of ferroresonance. Which is also parameter variation. I could be wring though as I have not done an investigation into the rotoverter or transverter, I've got my hands full already.

Interestingly enough, the inductance of a system doesnt necessarily need to be varied by the permeability of the core. One could also imagine alternately switching coils in parallel and series, this would change the inductance as well. I have not watched paul babcocks video but I heard he was doing that in there somewhere, i could be wrong though. The principle would be parameter variation though. Also one could put capacitors in parallel and series alternately. The idea sounds incredibly simple, but in practice its not. We are only at the beginning, there is much experimentation to be done.

I'd really rather not derail Turion's excellent 3 battery system thread, and the novel effects he's seeing, so if you would like to continue the discussion please come over to the Eric Dollard thread. Garrett just gave an excellent summary of precisely how the energy is synthesized. Thanks,

John

[Duncan]

addendum

The vibrating PSU EPD tells us about with the “screwy dwell angle” (call it parametric or what you will) I view as being in the same league and very much the same circuit that Dan is actively trying to engineer and explain in this clip
TV-part III - YouTube

given the parameters it becomes clear why I said the odds on reaching that state of tuning and timing are astronomical although of course the principles still hold well and good.

[Turion]

Just wanted to let everyone know we're still alive and kicking and working on this thing. Still lots of things to try. We're definitely not there yet, but we can see "there" from here every once in a while. We have seen enough to know that it is possible and we've just got to keep banging away at it until we find the solution. It would HELP if we had a few thousand folks working on the solution instead of just a few of us.

All the basics have been posted here. Then it's just a matter of trying different combinations of things until we get something that works. If you're waiting around for someone to figure it out FOR you and hand it to you on a silver platter, that probably ain't-a-gonna happen. Get to work!

If you watched the three videos I posted together, you saw that I got it working again exactly as the original. It quit working, just like the original. But I've gotten it to do that same thing a couple MORE times since then. It works, and then it doesn't. Some of it seems to be that the bad battery has to sit for a long time while dead...at least a couple days, and then the primaries have to be max charged when I start it up...which means the potential difference is at the max it could be and whatever magnetic realignment that occurs in the bad battery that happens when you run this thing has been allowed to revert back to the original alignment. It means waiting a couple days between every test run which is an extreme pain in the butt. But we're not giving up. When you keep seeing what is possible over and over, even if it's only for short periods of time, it makes you crazy to get there. Anyone who has built this and seen what I have seen can probably attest to that.

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

Did my usual Monday morning test of my battery that I was trying to kill, and finally am starting to see results from it.
I ran the pulse motor circuit I posted a few pages back. The battery ran 1 hour and charged the 24v primaries .05v over starting voltage on the first hour test. The second hour test gained more, .12v. But the third and fourth test both lost.

This shows that the sulphation although crystallized pretty good will still melt back to semi fluid which it turn stops the proccess.

To kill the battery I discharged it to 0, charge it to full with out AGM setting on the charger. Did that about 20 times now.
During the process I removed the caps from the battery to start letting most of the fluid out.

This seems to work.

The battery would not let the system run the first 2 times until the potential settled out to around 16 volt. The dead battery stayed around 14.2 while running the loads except on the 3rd and 4th test it went down below 12v.

So any I though I would post. I'll let it dry out for a bit more and post next Monday on the results.

Matt

[stonewater]

Hi Dave & all (Thanks for the email the other day by the way) I'm glad to see you have your original set up running again perhaps a bit of rhyme and reason might present itself and everything will become replicable .. and if that happened David the World power system would alter almost immediately, Its certainly one hell of a goal to aim for! Anyway as you know I watch this thread with interest and just occasionally have a friendly ramble, which might strike a cord with some one and prompt a lucky discovery, I think Its a fair guess to say some thing is in “Resonance” in your system in fact time and time again the word “tune” appears in the narrative but tune to what? There are actually two resonances in electrical theory only one of which is taught and admitted and which we have all the maths and calculations for, and one that’s deeply buried. I think its a very safe bet that your system is working on this hidden resonance. Take your commutator motor It is if nothing else a very fast switch It seems to me that all COP>1 have a fast switch in one form or another all be it in the form of a spark gap or hard on hard off electronic switch. Consider this circuit it has much in common with your original battery circuit except the sparking armature is replaced with vibrating contacts.

The battery is connected externally as is the load .. this things original job was to run US army 24 volt radio equipment from a 12 volt battery and it physically looks like this -
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V...2/img20851.jpg

yeah yeah so what ? Well its been noted that under certain “Freak” circumstances you could turn the thing off and it would keep powering things , That machine is the very thing EPD is talking about here
Part 6 of 6: Eric Dollard & Chris Carson Tesla Longitudinal Wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio - YouTube
and so does this ring any bells ? And so It now begs a question (with me at least) is there a point where a battery will be “resonant” to this high frequency (untaught linear) wave and how might we be able to “tune” to it?
Needs must I say here .. as I'm sure you all aware there are quite a lot of systems that can be driven COP<1
usually with difficulty and not a little danger one of these is the rotoverter, As I’m sure your aware this system has been looped on occasion by several people unfortunately there seems to be murder and threats involved, However I direct you to page 6 of this PDF and “Layman’s looping analogy”
http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/Advan...evelopment.pdf
It is made quite clear that batteries can be made “resonant” Stochastic resonance that is yes sir If I had to make my guess that’s it! How to tune to such a beast ?
How about a “Big daddy” ATU so you could put a full standing wave on the battery and see the forward and reflected wave? Again just a guess but as Hector and EPD have explained simple radio theory is key (simple to those two boffin s anyway) not so simple to nit wits like me but as Its already been pointed out that a battery is little more than a giant capacitor so how about tuning to resonance with a large version of the historical animal “The variocoupler” here shown as part of historical radio gear
http://www.atwaterkent.info/Articles/AKRA0512.pdf
although of course for tuning to a motors and batteries I dare say It’ll have to be wound on a waste bin or some such – anyway just chewing the fat, and injecting some food for thought, very interesting thread and I'm delighted Mk one is running again. Keep up the great work and good luck amigos

that multi vibrator is Dollards work!!

[Turion]

Duncan,

I have no idea what a “Big daddy” ATU is, but I have ben thinking about getting a signal generator to give that a try. Not sure if I even know how to use one, but that's another one of those things I need to get under my belt anyway. I've been reading a lot about how to build a variocouplersince your post , and other than what you said about the SIZE it might have to be to work for this, I also am not sure how to wire it in, so need to do some more research before I head in that direction. So many different things to try. And when I turned on my first one it just worked without all these things. I never knew just how lucky I was until I began trying to recreate that event.

I can get it to happen now for up to an hour with my bad battery. I am thinking of just drying it out completely to see what will happen, but it has also worked with the battery I put metal filings in, so maybe I should start with that one and leave the working battery that works WELL, alone. One thing I HAVE noticed, every time it does work, my two primaries have been charged to the max and then left to rest for a few hours, and my bad battery has sat for a few days draining out, so the potential difference is as much as it can possibly be.

Dave

[Duncan]

that multi vibrator is Dollards work!!

Thats never in question Stonewater ! Its actually "Dollards observation" what is the point of your comment ?

[Matthew Jones]

Ya thats been posted already. Nothing wrong with updating though.

Matt

[Turion]

Stealth,
Thanks for that link. I've seen that before, and you will notice that all the component parts are the same, batteries, motor, etc. Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Dave