3 Battery Generating System

[Turion]

If we get the right people interested, they could probably figure this out in their sleep. I will just keep puttering away at it until I have something that works. I have lots of things to try and lots of time to work on it, since this is pretty much my full time job. And I will post anything new that we discover. For right now, I am trying to modify batteries to see what will happen. On the advice of a friend, I have drained a battery and am letting it dry out inside which should cause massive sulfation of the plates. Then we will see what happens when I try to use it after that. I have another battery I have been adding iron filings to and believe it or not, that has increased the time it takes before the battery will start up the system by ten minutes. I have more cells to add junk to.

David

[mbrownn]

Can someone take a scope reading? I am looking for oscillations and what they are throughout the process to see if the results can be explained.

Removing a segment would promote oscillations.

Are we in effect getting a tank circuit?

If there is oscillations what is the peak to peak voltage?

[Turion]

I've had a scope on mine several times. Could probably get things back together enough in the next day or so to get a scope back on it again. My space is so small I had to clear off my bench for the welding I have been doing, so have no place to run it right now. What do you want scoped?

[FRC]

Just finished a half hour run with my first bad battery that worked. Last bad battery I tried probably was not good to use. Had to hook load to it for the motors to run. Also motors got very hot. With the "good" bad battery motors started right away without load. Output on load was good when attached. Motors stayed cool but eventually did warm up a bit. This is the first time I tried the three motors with this bad battery and the results were good.


George

[mbrownn]

I've had a scope on mine several times. Could probably get things back together enough in the next day or so to get a scope back on it again. My space is so small I had to clear off my bench for the welding I have been doing, so have no place to run it right now. What do you want scoped?

Put the scope across the primaries, I want to see if they see any spikes above battery voltage. Also across the motor and the third battery.


It would be good to put an ammeter between the primaries and the motor so we know the amp flow for each reading too, then place the ammeter between the positive post of the third battery and anything that is attached there. Then try a diode with the ammeter on that post first in one direction then in the other. This may cause it to stop working but at least we will have identified something if it does.

Still trying to get my head round it


The scope will show any voltage anomalies the ammeter will show any amperage anomalies and the diode will show any flow anomalies that cannot be metered.

[citfta]

Dead batteries

Hi all,

I have a couple of things to pass on. I remembered seeing a thread on here a while back that had a PDF about the Ossie Callahan radiant energy converter. The thing that I remembered was that it used a bunch of dead batteries similar to what we are doing here. You have to go down a couple of pages to get to the part about the dead batteries. Here is the link:
http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...iantenergy.pdf I thought it was interesting that someone else found something strange going on with "dead" batteries.

The other thing I wanted to pass on was a good source for bad batteries. I have posted this before in a couple of other threads. I get mine from the local recycling company. They will sell them by the pound. I get the small lawn and garden tractor types for $5 each. These are large enough to let you run some reasonable power circuits and yet not take up a lot of room or weigh too much. I have restored several of them with my SSG. Now I am trying to find one I can't restore with the 3 battery circuit.

David, I do have a question. I have a couple of batteries that when I connect them up the motor does not start right away but does start after a few minutes. After running the motor for ten minutes or so when I turn the motor off I have some residual voltage left in the "bad" battery. It is enough to keep a taillight bulb lit dimly for an hour or so. I know this means that battery is absorbing some charge but is this enough charge to kill the effect we are looking for? Thanks again for being willing to share this with all of us.

Carroll

[FRC]

I posted this on the Alum Battery Conversion thread

I have converted a couple batteries to alum. These were old batteries and were probably too far gone to work. Voltage did increase after conversion. Have not tried it with new batteries as John Bedini did. He has said that doing it with new batteries have made them last 14 years and they are still working.

I used one as a trade to buy a new battery at Wal Mart. I still have the other
one which I tried to use as the number 3 "bad battery" for the 3 battery charging system. IT DID NOT WORK, Turion emphasizes that lead acid batteries
must be used for it to work. Does anyone have information if these type of batteries work with SSG charging ?

As I said the alum battery did not work as a "good" bad battery. But it may be possible that new batteries converted to alum may work for battery 1 and
2 as good batteries. Also, I did not mention this before, when I used the "good" bad battery that I used in my last post here, there were popping sounds coming from the battery. This occured during the first and second runs that i used it.

George

[Turion]

Carroll,
Unfortunately, I believe the answer is yes. The minute the plates in the bad battery begin to absorb charge, the effect begins to go away. The more charge, the less the effect. But there IS something you can do. Shut the system down and drain that battery. Then start up under enough load on battery three that it has a hard time charging. This might even work better if there were resistors in line to battery 3 and you connected the loads on the outside of the resisters. That is ANOTHER thing I have on my list to try. You also need to remember that the minute you put a load on battery three you have to worry about it being balanced with the load on the motor or you can deplete one and two. Nothing about working with this thing is easy, even though it is a very simple setup.

FRC
I did say ONLY lead acid batteries, because that is the only kind of battery I have ever seen that converts the spikes you get from these kind of systems to a usable form of energy, but I have NOT tested alum batteries. My concern was people would try this with flashlight batteries and all kinds of things, and when it didn't work, would think it all a hoax. I think everyone needs to get a simple system working, and THEN try to change the parts to see what works, because how do you KNOW it was the battery that didn't work if you never had it working in the first place with the RIGHT kind of battery. Alum batteries may well work wonderfully, but until you put one into a "working" system you don't really know. I would hate to have you spend all your time trying to get this going with a battery that won't work. But if it's all you HAVE, give it a try. Who knows? I just don't want anyone blaming the system for not working when they aren't using the parts I KNOW it will work with. I have seen too much of THAT on these forums.

I look at this whole thing like one of my mom's recipe's. When I make it like mom made it, I know what i'm going to get. When I change the amounts of ingredients or the manufacturer of the ingredients, or add ingredients or delete ingredients, I can't expect it to taste like mom's. It may turn out to be delicious, or it may end up tasting like #$%!
Either way, it's not mom's recipe anymore.

[FRC]

Progress

After allowing the batteries to rest for 3 to 4 hours since my last half hour run, batteries 1 and 2 returned to their previous voltage before the run. Another free energy demonstration ! This time I tried another bad battery. This one I have had for about 5 years, it is huge from a commercial fish boat a friend of mine had, similar to the ones they use in diesel semis. He thought that it had a bad cell. I had tried radiant charging on it and also added epsom salts to it to try to recover it. It started the 3 motors right away without a load. This time I tried using the 12v ceramic heater as a load again and it ran continuously for the hour I did the run for. Last time I tried the ceramic heater was only with one motor and it would not run for long. Using the three motors seems to make things work better. I think that one larger 12 volt motor, than the ones I am using, might increase efficiency also. So far I am very pleased with how things are going. I am sure that after a resting period that battery 1 and 2 will return to their previous voltage again.

George

[Turion]

FRC,
Looks like you got it going on.
Keep track of your starting voltages on your primaries, your run times, your ending voltages and your recovery times. Start trying to extend your run times until you get them as long as possible. Once you are at the max you can get without discharging your primary batteries to the point they won't recover, you're ready to work on balancing your loads. You need to have long run times to do that, but until you already have some length to your run times it's hard to do. Catch 22.

Dave

[FRC]

After resting for 4 hours battery 1 lost .05 of a volt, battery 2 .08 of a volt.
An hour later there was no change. I should mention that the battery 2 is not the best of batteries either, it is only marginally good. This is after 2 runs, one
for a half hour and the other for over an hour. Battery 1 is brand new.

With my fourth identical motor I attached it to a 12v rechargeable drill to see
how it would work as a generator. It would only put out 1.8 volts. My battery is probably low. On my next run I will try the drill hooked up as either a load or
as a motor to see what happens. If the output is still low I will reverse the motor and try the drill as generator.

George

[Joit]

Voltage on the Cells. Each healthy Cell has usual a Basic Voltage on it, usual around 1.2 Volt for Accumulators.
When you drain the Battery it usual should come back to the Basic Voltage. For 12 Volts it are about 10 Cells.
The Question mostly is after it came back, can it still deliver Current like mA or only show Voltage.
So its good, when the Batteries always come back to her Voltage, but when you let it stay more time uncharged it starts to lost the Basic Voltage.

Something else to my test with 2 4,5 and the 26Ah SLA, as i did put the 26Ah as #3, it didnt change anything. Looks for me like, that the 2 4,5 Batts just had not the Power to move anything over #3. I only played a bit more with it today, unfortunately still no time for more, and i got now 3 4,5Ah's, its interesting to watch the Voltage between the Load. it first goes down and then start climbing. Also its good, to stay with 12 Volts Batteries, because its balanced this way.
Mixing a 6 Volt between is may a bad Idea. Some Ideas i had was instead a Load 2 Coils, where one is opposite wound to the other, and regulated with a wired Potentiometer, because they are strong enough to handle few more Watts or kinda a Magnetic Amplifier.
Anyhow, for me it seems like, the Effect has to do with slowing the Magnetfield down, or got it in delay, and the Voltage try to compensate the Delay.

[FRC]

Jolt

You are probably right that voltage alone is not an accurate indication of
battery condition. Total capacity would also depend on amps available. I
guess there probably are tests to determine total capacity. From what I
can see, as Turion says, we are getting more energy out than what is put
in. One way to see how much energy is being used would be to run the
same loads with the same amount of time with two equivalent good batteries.
These duplicate runs could then be compared to see what is happening.What
is good about this system is you can charge more batteries at the same time
as running other loads, whether it is by running a generator, alternator, or as I
have done using a charger with an inverter. This system is very similar to a
Bedini energizer, where you are getting mechanical power and charging at the
same time.

George

[Joit]

Frc i am pretty sure that you can get more Energy out at this Setup as only with one Battery or one Source.
I read anywhere too that it showed, that this Arrangement is able to charge another Battery in one Minute, and thats not, because it was only a small Battery. And its anyway interesting to watch why #3 act like it does.Just indeed a challenge to figure out what you could use additional or as replacement for #3 and got a load for free running.
We also had a Thread already here how to build the switch here.

[Matthew Jones]

In fact one case where the diodes were backwards was the Tesla switch circuit in Patrick Kelley's Free energy book from Electrodyne corp. that supposedly had a 30 HP motor running off 4 vehicle batteries and somehow the batteries were staying charged - not only that but they were said to be climbing as high as 36 volts on a 12 volt battery. BTW I verified this situation with Patrick Kelly that the diodes were indeed intended to be backwards.

Thats not the facts. I am not sure where you got that from. It says pretty clearly what they tested and that they continuously added energy to the system. I have all the iteration of PK's book over the last 6 years, I cannot find that info in it. Maybe thats after the change you spoke about.
And I can tell ya first hand experience (more than anyone else) this is not even a possibility. Those kinds of expectations of any system like this are just dreams of magic. It does not happen in reality. Stories get told bigger and better every time they get passed on, and people continue to quote it as fact.
Now thats not to say a TS or like system cannot display some very wonderful conservative uses of energy. You can even make them charge themselves over period of time. But your living in pipe dream if you think for one minute 4 starters of any size will run a 30 hp motor under load for any period of time. Even with no mechanical load a 30 hp motor will run about 800 watts. 1/30 of the full load should be expected for idle. (30 hp 22kw+ motor) In a 12 volt TS your looking at a 66 amp run and probably 600 surge to start it. 1400 cca battery will only deliver that load for about 5 minutes and there is no way the normal impedance on the battery will allow for you to catch that much power in fashion that is conservative enough to keep the thing running.
10 batteries per position (40 total) might stand a chance.
Don't put your faith in stories of magic. It just is not there. But reality is good enough.

As far as the Dead Battery goes.....

I have had one running now for week or so. The best battery I found was a completely dead 800 cca starter battery. The fluid was full and the the PH slightly high (ph of 1.3). The specific gravity was at the bottom end of LOW.

I used the motor to split the negative.

It showed no charge at first and after 6 runs or so it start carrying 1.2 - 1.5 volt.

Initially it took 10 minutes to get started. The battery voltage rose to 24v+ then slowly crept down to 18. At 18 volt the motor started with slight spin.
The drop voltage was most likely cause from the sulphation on the plate melting. As it heats up it lowers the impedance it causes on the plates.

The motor continued to run down to the point the battery had 10 volt showing. It was dropping the 24 volt to 10 volt either through absorption of energy into the plates or the draw from the reformatting of the fluids, as well as heat. The heat rose in the battery.
At that point I ran a load of 50 watts for about 10 minutes until the light went out. Of course the motor ran better.
I did this 6 times or so, until I got tired of watching it. I put a diode in place of the light, pointing from the negative pole to the positive pole of the battery. Hoping it would relieve the Counter Emf from the motor. And it worked.
The motor increased in RPM and I let it run 8 hours after that. With just the diode.
The next morning after 12 hour rest I remeasure and found I had only lost .05 volt from both batteries.

So the thing works as described and can probably do more. The important thing to remember is how you report your findings and what is required measurement in this system.
If you do not know the state of the dead battery then you will not duplicate it.

Now with that sayed a normal healthy battery did not perform this way. A battery that was intentionally sulfated did not perform this way.

So there is something to look at here.

Matthew Jones