3 Battery Generating System

[boguslaw]

Turion

Please bear with me I'm talking from THEORETICAL side of the problem
Your analysis is correct in all aspects. Bad battery is working as special capacitor able to convert high frequency energy into DC. It's a ping-pong between 24V and HV on LARGE area of dead battery which then is slowly converter by ions to lower voltage DC.
Would be visible better if you draw circuit with DC motor coils and commutator clearly drawn . I believe I describe it correctly when I say : Both coils of pair of rotor divided by commutator.
There are two problems I see : first in commutator, exactly the situation of Lockridge generator brushes have to touch only one section of commutator or energy is disipated as heat/radio in motor . The second problem is much worse : dead battery is not predictable !
Ideal "dead battery' should work like a switch + capacitor + capacitive voltage divider
but I don't see how we can force it !

Is there any battery expert here ?



Below may look like a nonsense to expert , sorry
We need a battery which has low internal resistance for the some amount of current (quite large) but when current drop below some level it has to switch to high resistance. We also need the same battery behave like a deep cycle battery (?) able to charge from HV pulses very fast. , I suspect such battery has to be conditioned with radiant energy purely.

Well, if I twisted something then correct me by simply comparing my theory above with the effect on the first ideal system running continuously.
I plan to make the test system soon, then we could move to more capacitive design eliminating dead battery....

[Turion]

darkoni,
Actually, you may be better off WITH a battery that forces you to kick start the system every time. A battery like this obviously has such high impedance that NOTHING will get through it until you kick start it by turning it, but does allow current to flow, or the motor would never start. But it ALSO fails to charge or at least HOLD a charge, so next time you have to do the same thing all over again (which is a GOOD thing). I would keep that one as my working battery if I were you, (call it B3a) just because it meets so many of the other desirable criteria for a battery in the third position. Another possibility is to put a SECOND bad battery (call it B3b) in parallel with it that will help the system start up, but that you can disconnect from the first (B3a) battery IMMEDIATELY after you get it running, and connect all loads to this FIRST (B3a) bad battery to keep it from ever charging. I hope that makes sense.

And this may be a solution we ALL want to consider. A combination of TWO batteries---one that has to be kick started, and another that will start the system. Possibly even one that has to be kick started and one GOOD battery in parallel, but with the ability to switch that B3b (good) battery out of the system immediately after it gets the motor running. What do you think? I know out of the 10 or so batteries in my "tried but discarded" pile I have a couple that DID work when I cranked the motor by hand, but I was looking for the "perfect" battery.

boguslaw,
I really don't think we are having a problem with CEMF here. I truly believe that connecting the motor between the positives either flips the polarity of the CEMF so it passes right back through the EMF, or lets it out of the motor some other way. I don't know how to test for that. I know there is an over voltage spike that shows up on the primary batteries that comes from somewhere that is helping to charge them. It shows up on the scope. If we could isolate that spike with diodes somehow, maybe we could test for it.

WingsTalysis,
Glad to have you aboard. I have seen some of your questions and posts on the "My Motors Got Me to Tap into Radiant Energy" thread. We can always use more people doing research. I know how badly you want get that scooter going with a DC motor.

Dave

[Turion]

citfta,
I went to energy creator's web site. His largest high efficiency generator he only shows running one (100 watt) light bulb, but he does show the volts (over 250) and the amps (over .01 amp) that it is producing at 2450 RPM's. That is not as much as I would like to produce...not by a long ways.

Here is a short video today that I took of metal filings attracted to a magnet. Nothing spectacular, but it does show the Dome shape of a half of a magnetic field around a magnet. It has nothing to do with this project, but I though some of you might be interested.
Magnetic fields - YouTube

Dave

[Neight]

citfta,
I went to energy creator's web site. His largest high efficiency generator he only shows running one (100 watt) light bulb, but he does show the volts (over 250) and the amps (over .01 amp) that it is producing at 2450 RPM's. That is not as much as I would like to produce...not by a long ways.

Here is a short video today that I took of metal filings attracted to a magnet. Nothing spectacular, but it does show the Dome shape of a half of a magnetic field around a magnet. It has nothing to do with this project, but I though some of you might be interested.
Magnetic fields - YouTube

Dave

still not related to this thread, but along the lines of your video today...
I found this one a few weeks ago, and most of it is a bit hard to watch, but the in the last few minutes, he shows a robot he built that carves out a 3D model of a magnetic field. I almost posted it to the forum here, but like I said, the first bit is somewhat odd, at least in my opinion

here is the link

3D Carver of Invisible Stuff - The Latest in Hobby Robotics - YouTube

you can pretty much start @ 3:00 and watch from there to get the important part of the vid

[FRC]

Wow !

Thanks everyone for all the posts.

Yesterday before I did my last post there had not been very many posts. So
I thought I would do that last one. Today there seems to be a flood of posts
with a lot of helpful hints and information. Maybe this thread is really starting
to take off now. We need it. Any extra information we can get from more
people working on this benefits everyone. Thank you everybody.

George

[Matthew Jones]

Still no serious Data

So every one is trying this and YES it turns out that there is somthing to be had. At least we know that.
But who has started measuring the batteries with Hydrometer? Who has look at the PH of the fluid? Who has start probing the sulphation on the batteries plates? Who has started looking at what make the difference between a good one and bad one.

No ONE!

Why not. I wouldn't think I was the only one who thought it important to look. After all the more evidence you have the better the theory can be. The better and stronger the theory gets the more replications can be succesfull and maybe even a purposful simulated replication can be acheived. You might be able to detroy a battery in the correct way???!!!

I don't know it just make me wonder..

I'll tell ya one thing it good reason not to share your work, no one contributes anyway, they just sit around and wait for new thing to play with.


Matt

[Neight]

So every one is trying this and YES it turns out that there is somthing to be had. At least we know that.
But who has started measuring the batteries with Hydrometer? Who has look at the PH of the fluid? Who has start probing the sulphation on the batteries plates? Who has started looking at what make the difference between a good one and bad one.

No ONE!

Why not. I wouldn't think I was the only one who thought it important to look. After all the more evidence you have the better the theory can be. The better and stronger the theory gets the more replications can be succesfull and maybe even a purposful simulated replication can be acheived. You might be able to detroy a battery in the correct way???!!!

I don't know it just make me wonder..

I'll tell ya one thing it good reason not to share your work, no one contributes anyway, they just sit around and wait for new thing to play with.


Matt

This is the exact kind of things I was talking about with making our own batteries. I lack the experience with batteries to know what all tests could be done, but I have thought the exact same thing. Most of the batteries I have are SLA, and I don't have the tools to safely even try to open one up and look inside.
At least if some kind of home made battery, like a lead acid - alum conversion, does prove to be a viable option, we can determine a set of building instructions for replications, and as a testing base to make changes from.

I can see about picking up a hydrometer when I can, but I would have to learn how to use and read results with it before I could be useful with those kinds of answers.

I think this is the best reason to share your work, especially when it's at early stages. If you can get enough attention, you can find people with the knowledge and experience to take it that much further. Everyone benefits that way.

[Turion]

I will have all of my welding finished by tomorrow, so by the next day I will have my motor back on the bench and running, no matter what I have to use as a load on it. Should have been done today but I burned up my metal cutting blade and have to get a new one in the morning. I will still have lots of coils to wind and assembling to do, but neither one of those has to be done on my "motor bench" so can't wait to try this whole list of things we have talked about.

According to my notes, the following individuals have built a system. Probably not all with the same motors, batteries wires, etc. Which makes getting the exact same results more difficult.
FRC
LutherG
Neight
SkyWatcher
tester16
Joit
Plengo
hello_all
citfta
Matthew Jones
shylo
Sanskara316
provelless
fathershand
darkoni

I tried to write down each person who SAID they had a system up and running or reported results here. Others may have one running, but haven't actually SAID so. There have been many folks who have just made comments or asked questions. If I left anyone out, I apologize.

Matt,
Both Luther and I have hydrometers. I bought mine just a couple days ago and Luther has had his for a while. We know that not only do we have to get serious about testing, but we have to be systematic about it. He and I have been working to assemble systems that are as close to duplicating each others as possible. I know I haven't contributed much in the way of hard data here, but I intend to, and I know Luther does too. We'll get there. I have been looking into SERIOUS battery testing equipment, and working on the financing to get it. A little R&D money would not hurt, and I'm going after some of that. Pricing is anywhere from $300.00 for some of the cheaper stuff to several thousand for serious battery analysis equipment. If you have any ideas or suggestions, I would appreciate it. To me, this is worth the investment, but I'd rather only do it once and get it right. So I haven't been spinning all four wheels, only two of them. I've been getting some traction with the other two.

Matt is absolutely right that we either have to reproduce a "bad" battery or figure out how to replace it. Bottom line

[FRC]

Hydrometer

Don't try this at home. I just tried doing a hydrometer test on one of the bad
batteries I do not know if it is working arrow just points straight up. Spilled acid
all over my shirt sleeve. Also tried the alum battery and same thing. I don't think
hydrometers are supposed to work with alum batteries or so John B. said. Will
have to check hydrometer with a good battery to see if it is working properly.
Also, do not try this, I tasted the acid from the lab, it tasted sort of like
vinegar- could this be a clue ? Anybody got any comments on the vinegar
angle ?

George

[Turion]

I may not be finishing up my welding tomorrow as planned. I have a venture capital web cast dealing with legal issue that I am attending from 6:00 am to 2:00pm tomorrow Pacific time. So I will be tied up for a good part of the day.The crappy part is that every seven or eight minutes a little screen pops up and you have to click on it to show you are there and paying attention. Pain in the butt. This is part of what I have been doing to secure some R & D money for this project, so I can't just let it slide or I would. It would be really nice to have the right equipment to test batteries with. Hydrometers are ok, but We really need some things that are a lot more accurate if we're going to have ALL the data. This means I may not get all my welding done until Monday because I try not to work on this stuff on the weekends. But I will be logged in here during all that time. Then after 2:00 I have to go get my new blade and cut some more steel. It's still possible I could be done with the welding tomorrow, but it will be tight.

Regardless, by Monday or Tuesday at the latest I will have my setup back up and running. Luther is shipping me two more motors on Saturday, so I will have those to set up next week as well. I have enough batteries to have three setups going at once, but not enough meters to have all three on meters all the time. More money to spend!

Regarding test equipment:
Laboratory pH, pH Benchtop Meter, ORP Benchtop Meter, Laboratory ORP, Jenco 6173 pH / mV / temp benchtop meter with extra large LCD display Jenco Collaborative Store
Megger BITE3 Battery Impedance Tester | Battery Testers | Instrumart

This is what I have been looking at. If anyone knows of equipment that will give better data for less $, let me know.
(Yes, hello_all, I AM serious about this setup! And I AM willing to spend the money for the right equipment and do the testing.)


Dave
Check this out all Johan Open Sourcing His Solid State Free Energy Charger

[FRC]

I hope we see this South African charger open sourced. Any word if that
other South African device that was thought to be similar to this 3BGS is on
the market yet ? It was supposed to be out in March and we are halfway through now.
By the way, thanks Neight for the abbreviation idea, It gives this thing more of a
cutting edge high tech sound to it

George.

[Sanskara316]

@ Turion
finally I think I'm in the zone, replaced the not so bad battery with a really bad one, at first it didn't run, I let it sit for 20min or so, then like you told me I tried to spin the motor manually, and it started slowly, when I place a load on batt 3, by the way I'm using 3 sla 6volts batteries, ok I placed the load on batt 3, a 6volt bulb, it went so bright, and the motor speed suddenly increased, about a minute I burned the bulb, so I decided to load a 12 volt bulb, after a min it burned again. it was collecting so much energy my bulbs were destroyed, and also the primary motor very sad but I'm happy with the result, and my starting voltage at bat1 and bat2 combined was just about 11.4 volts bad condition, after 1minute it's 12.6 volts!. it's charging bat1 and bat2, I tried to hook up a meter on both bat1 and bat2, while running to my surprise, it's charging. I immediately turn it off because I'm sure the replacement 12v motor would burn again. I tried to connect it again, just tapping the wire at the motor, the multimeter is showing 30 to a thousand volts. I don't know whats happening with it. I just replaced all wired with aluminium, from a coke can. I'm trying to find a generative conductor for the relaxation time of the electrons. so It would just collect the voltage potential and not the current. I don't know how to dope aluminum to make it like a semiconductor. but it did burned my motor and bulb. I hope you would try this, Just wanted to share this I'll post a video if I can make it happen again.

[Sanskara316]

here it is, sorry video so wabbly hard to record and hold the wires

3 bat system.3gp - YouTube

[Duncan]

for consideration

Hi Dave @ ..all.... with in reason the three battery system could be replicated by anyone by ordering standard stock items with the exception of course of the “buggered battery”which I think you all agree has special qualities, I did point out the very close relationship I see below the surface betwixt this system an the Don Smith machine, Like you guys we are being forced to consider the same piece of equipment, and like you we are slowly but surely going into the battery making business too. consider this first .. a capacitor is two or more plates separated by something (AKA dielectric) . A battery is two or more plates separated by something (AKA electrolyte) so can we agree a battery = a capacitor (all be it a huge one) ? How many variations on a battery/capacitor can there be? Quite a lot I'm afraid even the standard view of a capacitor isn’t really understood here described with a Leyden jar Leyden Jar Capacitor Demonstration, The Dissectible Leyden Jar - YouTube there's an obvious consideration for those who have followed the Bedini SSG and discovered that batteries/ capacitors can be “conditioned” to explain what is occurring there I would be at a loss but something radically and dramatically changes. It is considered here by a.king21 over on the DS thread http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post179911 In fact I guess if you really stretch the elastic our planet is really a big round battery with a changing electrolyte (of which we are part) here described LeeskalninPhysics2.wmv - YouTube I guess if we were all boffin s of the Calibre of EPD everything be obvious! Still I have it in mind that bits of theory that are hidden or suppressed probably play a part that includes of course the scalar wave What are Scalar Waves? - YouTube
However as we are considering the battery/capacitor There is a whole dimension omitted as pointed out mathematically in this video.
Physics of Free Energy Device, Revised - YouTube anyway if you can get your head around the fact that a battery is really is a capacitor and that a deal of the informations omitted/ hidden then here’s an addition... regarding the capacitor/battery we are aided with the theories of Vladimir Utkin who publishes via PJ Kelly here is his as yet unpublished work regarding the capacitor http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b2/Utkin%20Extra.pdf again demonstrated in this clip kacher cap charge.wmv - YouTube
I hope someone has the good luck to stumble on the Perfect “bad battery” /capacitor because I'm pretty certain we are chasing the same rabbit. All that apart I would hope there's enough links and information here to trigger a few possibilities and who knows …. even an answer
Best wishes Duncan

[FRC]

Despite what someone said about motors making bad generators, I got two of
my motors together for a while until my shaft attachment broke. I was getting
an output of almost 11 volts. So I am sure that hooked up to the 3BGS I should
be able to raise it to a sufficient level, by adjusting loads, to be able to charge
12 volt batteries with it. The last time I had this motor hooked up as a generator
it was to an electric drill and the output was only 7v to 8v.

George