3 Battery Generating System

[FRC]

I am dubious about using an ssg or radiant charging with this system. Radiant
energy will condition batteries to "negative energy" and limits their usage to
lights and inverters. Unless you are using the Bedini capacitor circuit to
change the radiant energy to positive energy, then it is my opinion that one
should use a conventional charger. Or like we are trying to do, use a generator
or alternator to charge other batteries to be switched to for the next run.

I am also skeptical about looping a charge back to battery 1 and 2 while
running the system. I might be wrong, if you take into account how
a resting period helps the batteries recover. And somehow I keep thinking
about John B. talking about the Watson machine looping back to the
batteries and causing the plates to crystallize. I think he also stresses to
leave an opening for energy to flow in, and not have it closed.

George

[FRC]

Another point about looping back a charge to battery 1 and 2 is that we might
be interfering with the good process we already have happening there. That is,
very little depletion of these batteries, and the charge that might be originating
from the motor going back to these batteries. If it works don't fix it!

George

[Turion]

FRC and faathershand,
Thanks for the data and your thoughts. More reasons, as Duncan said, why we should focus on the bad battery.

Oh sleep? I remember that. It's what I used to do before THIS all started. Now I'm up at 5:00 AM and don't go to bed until 1:00 or 2:00.

Dave

[FRC]

Do not take my two previous posts as cast in stone. They are just my humble
opinion. Who knows, maybe trying these things may lead to new breakthroughs
with this.

I just finished trying another run. I was getting 18.5 volts output to the charge battery, which was separate from the system batteries. I was using the alum battery for battery three again and had to turn the motor/generator by hand to get things started. For load on battery 3 I again used the 12v halogen light (at least it does not burn out).
The RPM's did increase after running for awhile. I thought the 18.5 volt output might
be too much for the charge battery and I added another motor to the motor position
and it did decrease the RPM's. As I was about to check the output on the charge battery my latest motor to generator attachment screwed up and I had to stop the
run. I still have not been able to get a good secure solid shaft to shaft thing
together. Also mounting the motor/generator on a piece of plywood or something
would also have helped. I used one of my other battery 3's to hold the motors down to avoid vibrations. I think running two motor/generator sets in the motor position with these particular motors will be the best way to proceed, instead of one in the motor position and one on the load position.

George

[FRC]

Aluminum

,
After what Sanskara316 said about the primaries charging when using aluminum strips to connect the batteries together, I am tempted to drag out my old corroded battery cables and give them a shot, or some coaxial cable using the sheath rather than the copper core, just to see what happens with mine. I have a 30 foot roll of aluminum flashing, and a like roll of copper flashing, so maybe I will roll out the aluminum and cut some strips to use. I'd say that's a little dangerous because it's all exposed metal, but I can wrap it with electrical tape. It needs to be tested. My original system definitely charged batteries one and two, but this is really the first post here where anybody has seen that effect. I personally have seen the batteries maintain on mine, and even go up, but NOT a consistent gain. And if you can get it to do THAT, does it REALLY matter what battery is in the third position when you get the work of the motor for free? I think NOT. So definitely worth looking into.

Dave

I just re-read this. I think aluminum wire is available that could be used. I
remember getting the tail lights rewired in a car I had at a U-haul place
years ago and they used aluminum wire to do it. If it helps keep the
batteries up then why not try it.

George

[Turion]

OK guys,
Just some basics to help us stay on the same page as we talk about this stuff, because as I read about the differences between copper and aluminum, there are some significant differences that may be useful to us here.

An electric circuit is formed when a conductive path is created to allow free electrons to continuously move. This continuous movement of free electrons through the conductors of a circuit is called a current, and it is often referred to in terms of "flow," just like the flow of a liquid through a hollow pipe.

The force motivating electrons to "flow" in a circuit is called voltage. Voltage is a specific measure of potential energy that is always relative between two points. When we speak of a certain amount of voltage being present in a circuit, we are referring to the measurement of how much potential energy exists to move electrons from one particular point in that circuit to another particular point. Without reference to two particular points, the term "voltage" has no meaning.

Free electrons tend to move through conductors with some degree of friction, or opposition to motion. This opposition to motion is more properly called resistance. The amount of current in a circuit depends on the amount of voltage available to motivate the electrons, and also the amount of resistance in the circuit to oppose electron flow. Just like voltage, resistance is a quantity relative between two points. For this reason, the quantities of voltage and resistance are often stated as being "between" or "across" two points in a circuit.

To be able to make meaningful statements about these quantities in circuits, we need to be able to describe their quantities in the same way that we might quantify mass, temperature, volume, length, or any other kind of physical quantity. For mass we might use the units of "kilogram" or "gram." For temperature we might use degrees Fahrenheit or degrees Celsius. Here are the standard units of measurement for electrical current, voltage, and resistance:

Quantity Symbol Unit of Measurement Unit Abbreviation
Current I Amp A
Voltage E or V Volt V
Resistance R Ohm Ω


Specific resistance (ohms- cir/mil ft) (20°C ref)
Copper 10.6 Aluminum 8.52

I read things that said aluminum is anywhere from 60 to 80% less conductive that copper, so.....if we indeed have a two way movement of current here, and can isolate one direction on copper and the other on aluminum..... It gives us more things to play with.

[ewizard]

One note on aluminum wire. It's cheaper for the amount of current it can handle but it heats up more with the same amount of current in it and you need a larger gauge of wire to carry the same amount as copper. I'm just mentioning this because I know aluminum wire can heat up enough to be dangerous (as in start a fire) if you don't have it sized right to carry the load. Of course the same could be said for copper but it may be surprising how large of a gauge you need in aluminum to handle the same as copper.

I did get a brief time to try out this circuit again quick and dirty. I didn't have 2 good batteries but had a couple large ones that probably both had bad cells but still enough to try out. I ran two equal size 12 volt drill motors - one as load and one as the motor. Putting a load (grabbing the spinning end by hand) on either one cause the other to speed up. That seemed no surprise as more current will flow under load so more goes to the other also in a series circuit does it not? Dead battery for test was a small 4Ah showing only 0.5 volt. It would start to charge up to around 7 volts but drop off rapidly if circuit was disconnected. All this was just quick and dirty so I'm not drawing any conclusions from this test. Both of the marginal batteries were losing voltage fairly fast. The one thing I believe I did have was a balanced load more or less since both the motor and the load (a very similar size motor) were essentially the same. I really need to try with a couple good batteries.

[Neight]

Interesting on the aluminum...
I might have noticed a similar effect, and didn't even realize it. I don't have proper battery cables, but I did happen to pick up some new alligator clips, with a bit heavier wire. When I used them on my 3BGS setup, I noticed I wasn't getting the same results I had been with the smaller clips. I ended up leaving the larger clips between batteries, and used the smaller clips to hook up my loads to battery 3, and between my generator and it's load.
I just thought some of my new clips were bad...
In this same test, I ended up losing a bit of voltage from battery2, and thought I had just overdone it on loading my setup, which still may be true. I work the next two days, so I wont have time to test this until monday, but I will start swapping out smaller and larger clip leads to various parts of the circuit, and even get some aluminum foil and put it in rotation as well.
It appears that resistance between connections is going to be a key factor in this setup.
If I find one way works better than another, I will post my results.
I would be pretty sweet to find a way to get the good batteries to charge themselves in this system, or even better, just find the right balance that will leave the good batteries as simply a conduit for energy to flow through, so this would work without having to swap batteries out, just turn it on and leave it

N8

[Rubberband]

3 battery

Hi guys, I started working with a three battery set up last week. I used duracell alkaline AA batteries. The two in series were new...My bad battery in series with the motor and those two in parallel with the new batteries. My motor is a radio shack 3 volt DC "solor: motor(<300ma). The dead battery was from a joule thief that had been left in there for weeks (check it with a DVOM) 0 volts, crystals had formed on the negative side. My first observations were that this dead battery seemed to be working as a voltage doubler... I used a DPDT switch, I broke the negative between the bad battery and the good ones as well as the positive side of good ones to the motor. This set up, when first connected the motor wood run slow..then I would check the bad battery it would read a couple of mv's and fall of to 0. So then I cross wired a second switch across the DPDT so I could kick the motor with 3 volts while the motor was running so I could see what it ran like on the three volts to the motor, in the circuit, it did but this is where I saw the volt doubling effect... get this I had two 1.5 v in series and a bad 1.5 v with the motor, when I used the second switch to make the motor wire connect to the negative of the good batteries w/ the DTDP switched on, a series/ parallel curcuit to the motor, the motor ramped up very fast and screamed. I stopped and connected my meter across the motor and restarted, as soon as I hit the second switch the motor again ramped up.

[Rubberband]

continued

So I looked and the meter was up at 7 Volts, from a potential 4.5 Volts?, Then the motor started to smell and slow down, so I let it cool down. I repeated this like six times every time the same. Then something changed... the motor started going less revs. each following time,...and the voltage was getting lower, now it will not speed up and the bad battery is holding voltage, so now it won't speed up, the voltage won't go up above the 2.98V's the new batteries are at and dropping every time i use it. One thing now is that the bad battery will run the motor at a slow speed for around fifteen minutes after i run the setup with the second swith on for about a couple of minutes, so now that the bad battery is "charging" the effect will not happen...trying to make new bad battery again...battery in joule thief burning now...

[Turion]

Rubberband,
Glad to see you here giving this a shot.
I said in post #1 (and in many posts after) that this will probably NOT work with anything BUT lead acid batteries. You are welcome to try of course, but don't be disappointed if the results are nothing like what others are seeing. I have no idea of the long term effects of the kinds of batteries you are using on the wiring or the motor. Are you using #6 or larger wire to connect the batteries to each other? That is also helpful in getting this to perform.

Everybody,
If you run the exact same motor off of battery three as your load as you are using as THE "motor" in this setup, that does NOT mean your loads are matched. You need to put some LOAD on the motor, so that alone makes them different, but somehow this system does not see them as matching. You still have to go through the process of matching the two loads to get the thing to go into the zone. So you are not matching two motors to each other, you are matching the LOAD on the motor to the motor AS a LOAD. I hope you can see the difference. I'm not very good at explaining this I guess.

Neight,
Size of wire can make a big, big difference. We have established that FOR SURE!

Dave

[FRC]

AC on DC

Something I have thought about doing with the 3BGS is using an AC motor
in place of a DC motor. It has to be a brushed AC motor as used in power
tools. I have done this before just hooked up to one 12 volt battery and
they run slow. But as the link below shows, with more batteries in series,
you can get more speed.

Run AC Tools on Batteries Directly, without an Inverter

This could be another interesting avenue of experimentation with the 3BGS.
Anyone got any experience with trying this or comments ?

George

[Turion]

From Ufopolotics thread
"However, I have not been trying to make-design a motor here...but just to demonstrate there is absolutely No "Single" Collapsing field Story teller any more...
There are "Collapsing Fields" on and off...where the cause for changing polarity an Inductor is due to the Radiant Opposite Field coming up..."

If you caught what he is saying and what he is trying to demonstrate in his videos...That what we have called CEMF in motors is the response of the radiant to the EMF. We put a charge into a motor which is EMF. It creates the electromagnet and then collapses, and the radiant creates and sends an opposite polarity charge right back at us, which we have called CEMF.

And I believe with a standard DC brushed motor wired between two positives like we are doing, that this pulse, radiant or otherwise, escapes the motor because we have it wired between the positives, and hits the supply (primary) batteries, and charges them. And that is the spike we see in the batteries on the scope that is higher than the battery voltage. (or an over voltage spike).

Dave

[shylo]

Hi all, I tried this with car batteries today ,the first 3b wouldn't start the fan motor (car rad fan). The next dead bat sat for 6 mins ,then the fan slowly started, so I added a small load to 3b ,the fan speed increased, added more load the speed increased again, I kept adding loads and the fans speed keeps increasing. Then I ran out of on hand loads ,gotta get some more lights.
Then I hooked another dead bat parallel to 3b ,as I put loads on it ,the speed of the fan decreased ,but the loads on 3b increased???
3b had 12v tail-light ,and 3 18v cordless drills as load
3b parallel had another rad fan and cordless as load
but 3b keeps charging up....crap
3b parallel charges up alot slower
So I guess I haven't found the zone yet ,what should the ressults be when in the zone??
I only have the week-ends for this after the to-do list.
How many loads can we put on this???
Very cool stuff.......thanks people.....shylo

[FRC]

shylo

I am not sure what to say to answer you. I have never did what you are
doing with 2 battery 3's. I did have 3 batteries in parallel (including the alum
battery) but I only put loads on the first battery 3. Sounds like your 3b still
takes a charge and might be getting fixed. The only bad battery that I have
right now that will not take a charge and does not have to be drained, is the
alum battery. Even though the other bad batteries take a charge and have
to be drained, it is as if the losses from battery 1 and 2 are transfered as
charge to these other bad batteries. So in effect you do not loose anything.
Or if you do it is very small when you add up what you have for charge in
these bad batteries and compare it to what was lost.

George