3 Battery Generating System

[Ufopolitics]

And I also know...

Ufopolotics,

Razor scooter motors are brushed DC motors. I have three of them and have had them apart.

Which motor are you using for your replication of the circuit?

Dave

And Turion,

I also know that when a Motor is running (as Motor) it is not producing-generating current ...BUT, it DOES generates Instant Radiant Energy running opposite as Hot is inducing it by energizing each coil.
Radiant Electromagnetic Field rises as Hot pulses go Off (In this case it happens at every 180 Degrees Reversal Turn of each group of Coils in the segment of the quadrant.

As I also have a second test to run after this one...based only on Four Brush set Motors...

Regards

Ufopolitics

[Matthew Jones]

I figured there would be something wrong with them...

They are actually pretty good generators as well if you compare them to the motor function. I have some elongated motors that can't stack up in over all output. They do use them to regenerative breaking and such.
The voltage is low but the current is usually pretty strong at low rpm's.

On another note has anyone tried to short a battery out and see how that battery acts? I know Dave put filling in his but I am talking about 2 physical plates touching or something along those lines?

I didn't read anything but I wanted to make sure before I go out and really ruin this battery.

ONE THING I WANTED ADD.... These motors aren't Curries, they are United Motors. The curries are a step up in performance. FYI

Cheers
Matt

[Neight]

If you have a larger size printer you can pull apart, I have one motor from a printer that works really well as a genny.
I am using a smaller motor from the same printer as my running motor, and this larger motor will easily put out 20V @ a couple of amps running as a generator.
I wish I had some specs to give on this motor, but the markings on the side are just a string of part numbers, though I can try and look them up, see if I find anything.
I can run several different motors as loads on this bigger motors output.
I have even had a 12V light bulb running with a 12V PC cooling fan, both at the same time, both at full brightness/speed respectively. It will charge a 12V battery, as I have also tested this.
you aren't going to run a house on it, but for small applications, it hasn't failed me yet!

I did look up the motor brand and part number, and it looks like this is a 18-24V printer carriage motor. I am quite sure if I hooked it up to an even bigger motor, I could get better output, but this is the largest motor I have right now.

if anyone is interested, here is the brand and part number
Johnson C9058-60071
if you google that, you will find lots of them for sale on ebay, and other places.
using my smaller 7Ah batteries, this thing works great. I am still planning on trying the 120V router motor on a setup, but that will have to wait until after the weekend, as I am working the next two days.

When I have some time, I will take a video of my setup, so you guys can see the motor I have driving this one, and the size comparison.

again, this isn't something that will run a house, or even an inverter that I know of, but it is great to power smaller loads, or charge smaller batteries.

[Neight]

I figured there would be something wrong with them...

They are actually pretty good generators as well if you compare them to the motor function. I have some elongated motors that can't stack up in over all output. They do use them to regenerative breaking and such.
The voltage is low but the current is usually pretty strong at low rpm's.

On another note has anyone tried to short a battery out and see how that battery acts? I know Dave put filling in his but I am talking about 2 physical plates touching or something along those lines?

I didn't read anything but I wanted to make sure before I go out and really ruin this battery.

Cheers
Matt

I have shorted out pretty much every bat3 that I have used. though mine have all been damaged to some extent, or just plain small, like my alum battery that I have used the most.
from the runs where I had the batteries shorted, I did seem to lose some voltage in the primary batteries, or at least they wouldn't fully recover after the run. The motor will speed up nicely, and it still doesn't draw much power, but the loss shows up in recovery.

N8

[Matthew Jones]

I have shorted out pretty much every bat3 that I have used. though mine have all been damaged to some extent, or just plain small, like my alum battery that I have used the most.
from the runs where I had the batteries shorted, I did seem to lose some voltage in the primary batteries, or at least they wouldn't fully recover after the run. The motor will speed up nicely, and it still doesn't draw much power, but the loss shows up in recovery.

N8

Shorted out the plates? Internally?

Matt

[Neight]

on my alum battery, yes, as that one has no external casing. It has 4 plates, and I have touched them together at one end to short the battery.
my other batteries I have used, no I don't go digging inside them

the motor speeds up in both cases, and both ways there was some loss in the primary batteries.

the first time I shorted the alum battery this way was actually on accident, before I had the cardboard separators between the plates. at that time, the plates were just balanced in a glass of alum solution. I moved the glass and the plates shifted and touched, and the motor sped up. I followed this to see what would happen, and I didn't get full recovery.
I have one battery with a cell that is disintegrating inside, and it works well as bat3, though I do not know if the plates in that one cell are shorted.

[Matthew Jones]

Thanks

Matt

[Turion]

All,
Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone who has tried a small motor with the original circuit and the two diodes across the batteries as Matt suggested. This produced SIGNIFICANT charging in batteries one and two for me in a VERY short amount of time. My only concern was the temp of the motor. But having run it with some extended runs since then, that has become less of a concern.

I still have some things on my list from yesterday to try out, but before I do that, I want to go back to my small motor running the original circuit with the two diodes. I am going to do a thirty minute run of my motor connected ONLY to a 12 volt battery and record the temp with my laser meter. Then I will run it on the circuit with the diodes until the motor temp exceeds the temp from running it on a single 12 volt battery. That way I can just let it run and not worry about how hot it gets. I haven't measured the voltage output from the generator attached, but it SEEMS to be pretty good, and I definitely need to do that today.

THIS motor with THAT circuit produced IMPRESSIVE results. Isn't that where we should start? If there is concern that the motor will burn up because the Radiant is trapped inside the motor, lets figure out how to get it out of a working setup rather than abandoning that setup. If it works, don't fix it. I usually don't have time on the weekends to work on this, but today is an exception. My wonderful wife is going out to lunch and a movie with an old friend, so I should have five or six hours to spend. So after I get the baseline heat evaluations done, I will run the setup using the two diodes, just to reconfirm the positive results I saw the other day. THEN I'll look at adding the diodes Ufopolitics suggested to the circuit already containing the diodes Matt suggested. There should not be any conflict between the two as far as I can tell. But I KNOW what Matt suggested made a change in the voltages on batteries one and two.

So, if Matt's change gets it to charge and Ufopolitics gets the radiant out of the motor so it doesn't heat up, without messing up the current flow that is causing the charging.........????

Dave

[Neight]

All,
Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone who has tried a small motor with the original circuit and the two diodes across the batteries as Matt suggested. This produced SIGNIFICANT charging in batteries one and two for me in a VERY short amount of time. My only concern was the temp of the motor. But having run it with some extended runs since then, that has become less of a concern.

I still have some things on my list from yesterday to try out, but before I do that, I want to go back to my small motor running the original circuit with the two diodes. I am going to do a thirty minute run of my motor connected ONLY to a 12 volt battery and record the temp with my laser meter. Then I will run it on the circuit with the diodes until the motor temp exceeds the temp from running it on a single 12 volt battery. That way I can just let it run and not worry about how hot it gets. I haven't measured the voltage output from the generator attached, but it SEEMS to be pretty good, and I definitely need to do that today.

THIS motor with THAT circuit produced IMPRESSIVE results. Isn't that where we should start? If there is concern that the motor will burn up because the Radiant is trapped inside the motor, lets figure out how to get it out of a working setup rather than abandoning that setup. If it works, don't fix it. I usually don't have time on the weekends to work on this, but today is an exception. My wonderful wife is going out to lunch and a movie with an old friend, so I should have five or six hours to spend. So after I get the baseline heat evaluations done, I will run the setup using the two diodes, just to reconfirm the positive results I saw the other day. THEN I'll look at adding the diodes Ufopolitics suggested to the circuit already containing the diodes Matt suggested. There should not be any conflict between the two as far as I can tell. But I KNOW what Matt suggested made a change in the voltages on batteries one and two.

So, if Matt's change gets it to charge and Ufopolitics gets the radiant out of the motor so it doesn't heat up, without messing up the current flow that is causing the charging.........????

Dave

Hey Turion
in posts 551 and 553 I shared my results from using two 1n4001's across battery 3.

I am also planning on running one with the diodes as shown by UFopolitics this week. I will also do a run with both sets of diodes in place. I am not sure the diodes I have will be big enough for the UFopolitics setup, but they are supposed to be fast switching, I got them from radio shack.
I can look through my junk circuit boards and see if I can scrounge up some others to try.

[Turion]

Neight,
If I am reading this right, you had a voltage gain with BOTH the 3BGS and 2BGS using the two diodes across battery three and small motors. Correct? So so far, everyone who has TRIED it with small motors has been successful. Anybody else???

Dave

[Matthew Jones]

I got an old drill I will strip the motor out of and give it shot, see if the small motor does better.

Matt

[Turion]

As Luther and I have discussed, and I shared with Matt, the things that i think MIGHT carry the success of his dual diode version to a larger motor which has more wire of greater diameter are:

1. Higher source of voltage (For me, Is shouldn't expect to be successful running a 110 volt motor on 24 volts in comparison to running a 12 volt motor on 24 volts.)
2. Larger batteries. I am using 18 amp hour batteries for the smaller motors, which have a certain sized lead plate in them. Perhaps using LARGER batteries with larger lead plate surface is necessary for the larger motor.
3. Wires. I am using #6 wire with the small motor. I will increase the wire size for the larger motor to 0 or at least 1.
4. A different diode. I am using the 408's which are slow, but maybe there is something slower.
5. Adding a resistor before each diode to further restrict current flow.

Those are the things I am going to work on, as well as any others I can come up with.

Ufopolitics, as your work experience is in motors and motor design, is there a large motor that could produce the horsepower to run a generator that you feel would work best for what we are trying to do here? If there is, I will purchase it. I am committed to this project because I have SEEN what can be done with a working system. I would think that something with replaceable brushes and solid bearings would be the best candidate, since replacing brushes may be something you want to do once in a while.
Dave

[hello_all]

ok i tried to have the diodes in place like ufo said... the forward diode to third battery gets very hot .. since there is lot of current flowing thru.. so decided to have a small brushed motor from a rc heli , but still very hot ....

1. test says to use diode after motor.. no way it can survive the current passing thru....

2. other test i replaced the dead battery with a 9v battery duracel.. it ran initially the small motor slowly , then what i noticed was the variation in the motor speed , it gained and 9v battery became warm.. i let it run .. the motor speed went more and after a min or 2 the 9v battery exploded..but still have charge..

3. ok no harms , i have another 9v battery which is used . i charged it like this in few mins and it charged very fast..

don't know what i can infer from this ..

setup is same as ufo posted but without the forward diode ..i don't have high current diodes

thinking of getting these high current diodes , any suggestions :
RHRG75120 High Current High Voltage Fast Soft Recovery Diode 75A 1200V TO247 on eBay!

[Matthew Jones]

ok i tried to have the diodes in place like ufo said... the forward diode to third battery gets very hot .. since there is lot of current flowing thru.. so decided to have a small brushed motor from a rc heli , but still very hot ....

1. test says to use diode after motor.. no way it can survive the current passing thru....

2. other test i replaced the dead battery with a 9v battery duracel.. it ran initially the small motor slowly , then what i noticed was the variation in the motor speed , it gained and 9v battery became warm.. i let it run .. the motor speed went more and after a min or 2 the 9v battery exploded..but still have charge..

3. ok no harms , i have another 9v battery which is used . i charged it like this in few mins and it charged very fast..

don't know what i can infer from this ..

setup is same as ufo posted but without the forward diode ..i don't have high current diodes

thinking of getting these high current diodes , any suggestions :
RHRG75120 High Current High Voltage Fast Soft Recovery Diode 75A 1200V TO247 on eBay!

You don't need to spend that much on diodes. Diode pretty much will run its amp rating. I doubt you pushing more than 10 amp or so.
These are a dollar and from digikey. You never know about Ebay

Digi-Key - 497-6082-5-ND (Manufacturer - STTH2006W)

You can search digikey and find fast recoveries that might do the trick for ya for less even.

Cheers
Matt

[Ufopolitics]

Which Diode Spec's did You use?

ok i tried to have the diodes in place like ufo said... the forward diode to third battery gets very hot .. since there is lot of current flowing thru.. so decided to have a small brushed motor from a rc heli , but still very hot ....

1. test says to use diode after motor.. no way it can survive the current passing thru....

2. other test i replaced the dead battery with a 9v battery duracel.. it ran initially the small motor slowly , then what i noticed was the variation in the motor speed , it gained and 9v battery became warm.. i let it run .. the motor speed went more and after a min or 2 the 9v battery exploded..but still have charge..

3. ok no harms , i have another 9v battery which is used . i charged it like this in few mins and it charged very fast..

don't know what i can infer from this ..

setup is same as ufo posted but without the forward diode ..i don't have high current diodes

thinking of getting these high current diodes , any suggestions :
RHRG75120 High Current High Voltage Fast Soft Recovery Diode 75A 1200V TO247 on eBay!

Hello,

Which Diodes did you use for this test you ran?
Could you give Us spec's of them?

As I understand "Forward Diode" (sorry, but the term is too relative, depending if are looking from battery or motor...) is the one running from Negative Motor to Positive of Old Battery...Am I correct?

If it is that one, and it is Not A Heavy Body Ultra-fast Rectifier, like I specified, it WILL get HOT, as the Old Battery charges Up...One of that Diode's "Job" is to block the Positive from Old Battery to return to the Motor...The more it charges...the hotter it will get .

But anyways, I see You did it almost right, except for Diodes spec's...
sorry about your battery...Alkaline Batteries should NOT be even tried to be charged...but I guess you've learned that by now...just be careful.

Thanks.

Ufopolitics