3 Battery Generating System

[Matthew Jones]

Anything that makes it into the landfill is not available for average citizens to recycle. Here you can't even buy bad batteries. Insterstate Battieries?
It is possible this exists because the landfill is an regional one, it serves several counties. Interstate Batteries also has a large presence here.
I really do not want to put someone in a position to lose their job. Possibly some outlier centers have a more generous policy.
A few years ago people will pay you to haul off stuff and now you have to pay them.
That is why I asked what motors (car) will work with this setup as being on disability limits a lot of disposable income and very little is available from what was usually available.

PM me your address and I'll send ya a motor, hell I might drive it up to you. You only live a little bit away from me.

Matt

[fathershand]

Generosity

PM me your address and I'll send ya a motor, hell I might drive it up to you. You only live a little bit away from me.

Matt

Way to go, Matt!!!
Tony

[fathershand]

Results

fathershand,

To try and answer your question about loads. I have always put a load on my motor and then tried to balance it by adding small loads to battery three. I would add several small loads, and then if I was not in balance yet, replace them with a medium load that was equal in amp draw to the three or four small loads. Then add some more small loads, then replace them with a large load that was equal to the small ones plus the medium load, so I always have some small loads to add. I have mainly used light bulbs for my loads. I have lots of different sizes that run on 12 volts but will fit in standard light sockets. I have eight of those sockets wired up with switches, so I can switch different combinations of loads in and out. You can get bulbs with different amp draw at an RV supply place because many of them run 12 volt systems. SOme auto parts stores have them too.

I make SURE I know enough about the load I want to run off of battery three to know if I can trade places with some of my light bulbs that are lit up to balance the load.
For example... a 50 watt bulb
a (amps) =w (watts) /v (volts)
a= 50/12
a= 4.1666666666
If I want to run a motor off battery three, and I know how many amps it will draw under a certain kind of load. (I put it on a 12 volt battery with the load attached, and check to see how many amps it draws.) Then I know which light bulbs and how many I have to switch off to connect that motor in their place. Does this make any sense?

Also, I am using a 110 volt DC motor and have gotten it into the zone running on just 12 volts. So you should be able to do what YOU want to do easily at those higher voltages. The better the system you have to do it, the easier it is to do. That's why I finally hooked up all those light sockets with switches. I can get into the zone fairly easily with my setup. When you are connecting and disconnecting things by hand, it gets really tedious.

Hope that helps,
Dave

Dave, Thanks for reviewing this for me. Do you agree with my way to measure amp draw by measuring the voltage across a one ohm resistor?

Tony

[Turion]

fathershand,
I don't see why that wouldn't work.

Dave

[clueless]

Thanks Matthew

PM sent. I still would like to hook this up to a car alternator. Is this the razor with the gear? I wonder if you can attach a multi-speed bike gear to turn the alternator to speed and produce sufficent torque.
Thanks again
-rg

PM me your address and I'll send ya a motor, hell I might drive it up to you. You only live a little bit away from me.

Matt

[Turion]

clueless,
I have two of the Razor motors, connected to each other by a bike chain. I had an old 10 speed with a derailer. There are two gears in the derailer. I took them out and removed the sleeves that slide right out of them. Then they fit perfectly on the shaft of the Razor scooter motors and allow them to take a bike chain to do whatever you want. I took the existing gear off the shaft, put the derailer gear on, and then put the scooter motor gear back on and epoxied the two together. Since one gear is smaller than the other, and they are separated by the way they fit together, chains for either setup will fit on without conflicting with the other gear. Razor scooter chains and bike chains are different and they won't fit each other's sprockets. Now I can use this motor to power an electric bike! LOL Just need to get this setup working!

Dave

[fathershand]

In The Zone

Dave, today I was able to get into the zone of RE!! The motor ran for quite a while and the voltage didn't drop below a certain point. I was powering an alternator as my motor load. The alternator was driving an inverter that was loaded with a fan. I had to keep balancing the loads to keep it in the zone.

One interesting thing I noticed was that adding a small battery that needed to be charged to the "bad battery" group helped in balancing my loads. I definitely noticed that my original 6V bad battery was not enough. I added a large 12V bad battery to it in parallel and the motor would really turn! The additional large battery seems to increase the reservoir of energy for the motor load to draw from.

A question I have for you: How do you plan to use that large $1200 motor you bought to power a car? It seems to me that you are going to have to design a circuit that will automatically "balance the loads" while you're driving.

Tony

[Ufopolitics]

I am glad Tony!

Dave, today I was able to get into the zone of RE!! The motor ran for quite a while and the voltage didn't drop below a certain point. I was powering an alternator as my motor load. The alternator was driving an inverter that was loaded with a fan. I had to keep balancing the loads to keep it in the zone.

One interesting thing I noticed was that adding a small battery that needed to be charged to the "bad battery" group helped in balancing my loads. I definitely noticed that my original 6V bad battery was not enough. I added a large 12V bad battery to it in parallel and the motor would really turn! The additional large battery seems to increase the reservoir of energy for the motor load to draw from.

A question I have for you: How do you plan to use that large $1200 motor you bought to power a car? It seems to me that you are going to have to design a circuit that will automatically "balance the loads" while you're driving.

Tony

Hey Fathershand,

That was great you got in the "Zone"!

Now, I have a question to all of you guys who have been able to get in the Zone...
Did you notice-observe the Motor sense of rotation?
I mean, comparing it to the way it normally runs with the positive where it goes, but attaching the negative to the negative of the new batteries?

I had this question before and I keep forgetting to ask Dave if He has observed that detail...

About balancing the loads...Have you guys tried a 12V Heavy Duty Battery Charger to recharge the new batteries?
That would close the loop if it works..

Thanks and regards to all

Ufopolitics

[Turion]

fathershand,
Congratulations!! Persistence pays off again! I'm really glad to hear that. I KNOW it was a pain trying to get there. It is probably THE most frustrating thing about this setup.

As to needing a circuit to balance the loads to use this in a car. That might be true if what you guys have seen so far is all there was to this. But you don't really think I've given you ALL my secrets do you? LOL. Just kidding!..... Kinda. Matt should be posting here soon, and then you'll see what he has been up to, and I have been replicating his build.

With a small setup like we're playing with, balancing the loads is critical to getting the batteries not to draw down. Now that you've seen it, (the infamous Zone) you know how hard it was to get there the first time. There probably aren't half a dozen people who have gotten that far with this thing yet.

When you start using bigger motors and MORE batteries...EXPENSIVE batteries and motors, I'm not so sure it IS as critical. I'm pretty sure we can get the motor to run for free without a balanced load. I've seen glimpses of it in things I've done, but it hasn't been consistent enough to tell you how to make it happen. I KNOW we can get the motor to run and not discharge the primaries without balancing the load, BUT will the motor have the torque it needs to perform real work. Or will it just be an off the shelf half assed version of the monopole energizer, (which is very efficient at what it does.) I haven't done any serious testing to determine that. But when I know, you will know. Right now I just think I might possibly know how to make it work sometimes. Wire size is important, and having very short wire runs, and lots of other little details that most folks don't pay attention to anyway and still expect things to work.

But we'll get there. This is my full time job, so I ain't going away. I am working on some PART of this every single day, and every extra cent I can come up with goes into batteries and wire and motors. I am in the process of doing something I said I would never do, which is dismantling all my other projects I have built over the years so I have the space to work on this, and all those extra parts when I need them. And THAT is painful. But I am committed to this.

EDIT: I should say every other project EXCEPT Matt's Tesla switch. I have several versions of that and one I still haven't completed yet. I see such a strong relationship between what goes on there and what is going on here that I want to keep going with both, and possibly a hybrid of the two.

Dave

[Turion]

Now, I have a question to all of you guys who have been able to get in the Zone...
Did you notice-observe the Motor sense of rotation?
I mean, comparing it to the way it normally runs with the positive where it goes, but attaching the negative to the negative of the new batteries? Ufopolitics

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "the motor sense of rotation"

About balancing the loads...Have you guys tried a 12V Heavy Duty Battery Charger to recharge the new batteries?
That would close the loop if it works..
Ufopolitics

Haven't tried closing the loop yet

Dave

[Ufopolitics]

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "the motor sense of rotation"
Dave

What I meant Turion is,

The motor should respond only to one rotation sense (Clockwise or Counterclockwise, CW or CCW) when it is connected to Positive to New Batteries (Like it is in your set-up) BUT, Negative to New Batteries (No Old One on)...just normal connection..
Now, when Motor is running in the Zone, is it same rotation as I mentioned before...or opposite?


You will get to close the loop...

Cheers

Ufopolitics

[Turion]

Ufopolitics,
When the motor is connected to a single battery (positive of the motor to the positive of the battery) it has a specific direction of rotation. That is the same direction of rotation it has when hooked to the positive of the good battery in the three battery setup, and the same direction of rotation it has when connected to the three battery setup "in the zone." Switching connections on the motor in any one of the three stages will reverse the direction of the rotation of the motor. Does that make sense?

Dave

[Ufopolitics]

Yes, it does make sense..

Ufopolitics,
When the motor is connected to a single battery (positive of the motor to the positive of the battery) it has a specific direction of rotation. That is the same direction of rotation it has when hooked to the positive of the good battery in the three battery setup, and the same direction of rotation it has when connected to the three battery setup "in the zone." Switching connections on the motor in any one of the three stages will reverse the direction of the rotation of the motor. Does that make sense?

Dave

Hello Turion,

It should not reverse direction of rotation...Unless, (and that's the reason I asked) that "in the Zone time" it will be running on Radiant flow...from new batteries to old one...meaning, reversing polarity, therefore rotation direction...
The system could be draining Radiant Flow...from new batteries to old one...and meters will not detect it...therefore will indicate Voltage levels as not draining...but motor should reverse...(note that I wrote "should" and not must...'cause I am not even sure myself if it does or not...lol, Radiant manifest so weird, is really unpredictable)
Radiant is everywhere there is current and voltage flow, running opposite..even on batteries when they are hooked up in a loop...

I am in the process of completing a "re-make" of an old Tesla Motor...based on the windings arrangement, but adapted to work with brushes and my diodes set-up plus the oscillation system, it produces Radiant through the same Input cables...same as my coil..but am having some issues...when I accelerate the motor, it looses Radiant flow in my test lamp (a CFL), however the meters keep going Up, higher than input. When I solve this issue I will be testing that motor with your set-up.

Cheers

Ufopolitics

[Turion]

All,

We were at a point here where we had something that absolutely worked. Matt saw it. Neight saw it. I saw it, and I don't know how many others. When we ran (at least Neight and I...I don't know what Matt ran) smaller motors with the two diodes in opposite directions across battery three, we got the primaries to charge and the work of the motor for FREE for the duration of the test runs. I want to keep coming back to that because it was successful, and successes in this field of exploration are few and far between. We should continue to explore this don't you think? How much bigger can we make the motors and still have this work? With bigger motors can we add more diodes in parallel, or slower diodes and get it to work. Who besides the three of us saw success from this? What diodes were you using and how big was your motor? I trie it with my big motor and still lost a bit of juice out of the primaries, but now I have bigger batteries in my setup, so I need to try again. We ALL need to try.For those of you who have no idea what I am talking about, see the 3rd schematic at the bottom go post #1

Dave

[citfta]

Me Too

Hi Dave,

I also tried the diodes across batt 3 and got my primary batts to charge. I am still trying to work on the mosfet switching but family obligations this week have taken up most of my time. Maybe next week I'll have time to get that finished and tested.

Carroll