3 Battery Generating System

[citfta]

Matt is correct. A shorted condition means the resistance would read very close to zero. This also means a SSG would not light the neon when connected to a shorted battery. The neon only lights when connected to a battery that has high internal resistance which would normally be caused be a badly sulphated battery or a battery with broken internal connections as Matt said. There are a lot of people that do not understand the difference between shorted and open. Shorted means very low resistance and open means very high or infinite resistance.

Carroll

[Turion]

Hey Matt,
I've been on pins and needles waiting for you to post the video of your shorting experiment with the big resistor. I know folks are gonna want jump all over that because of the results you got. It only worked the one time with my 18 amp hour batteries, and that was it for them. I've tried twice right after recharging them and still no joy. They are fine for everything else, but just don't have the guts for that experiment. I ran it again this morning with the deep cell marine batteries and got what I was hoping for, so I can back you up on the results because both times on the big ones it worked. I don't know how many others are running motors on larger batteries, but I don't think it will work with the smaller ones from what I have seen. I believe Luther also tried with the smaller batteries and was unsuccessful with them, as did a couple other folks who aren't reporting out their results here. But the few of us who have tried it with the large batteries have been successful. Monday I intend to get up early, pack my lunch, head to the basement and run it for as much of the day as I possibly can so that we have the data on a really extended run. I will shoot some video, but I will probably just do the beginning and the end results.

[blackchisel97]

Yes, we need higher impedance (sulfated battery or a substitute) not a low one. When the impedance is low motor will run as soon as we flick a switch and drain our primary bank while loading battery 3. No magic.
I got my second setup hooked up. Still searching for second set of booster cables to replace thinner wires (12 atm). I use car heater motor (perm. magnet, no brushes). I bought 12/24/36V DC motor today but it may take few days to arrive.
My battery 3 wasn't bad enough, actually I was in the process of restoring it. It's Interstate, 800CCA. The other two are also similar size. I'm getting near 16.4V and the motor starts to sound like my first VW. I have a scope across and the wave looks like a sawtooth with 3-4V spike at each apex. I'll probably shoot it down in a minute and let the batteries settle to get reading.
I have a feeling that I'll need few bad batt's for this. All I have are restored.

Cheers
Vtech

[Matthew Jones]

Hey Matt,
I've been on pins and needles waiting for you to post the video of your shorting experiment with the big resistor. I know folks are gonna want jump all over that because of the results you got. It only worked the one time with my 18 amp hour batteries, and that was it for them. I've tried twice right after recharging them and still no joy. They are fine for everything else, but just don't have the guts for that experiment. I ran it again this morning with the deep cell marine batteries and got what I was hoping for, so I can back you up on the results because both times on the big ones it worked. I don't know how many others are running motors on larger batteries, but I don't think it will work with the smaller ones from what I have seen. I believe Luther also tried with the smaller batteries and was unsuccessful with them, as did a couple other folks who aren't reporting out their results here. But the few of us who have tried it with the large batteries have been successful. Monday I intend to get up early, pack my lunch, head to the basement and run it for as much of the day as I possibly can so that we have the data on a really extended run. I will shoot some video, but I will probably just do the beginning and the end results.

I have got all my batteries tied up at the moment. 42 of them all running something.
I gotta let this other thing run its coarse I just can't stop it right now, on top of all the other stuff I got going.

I promise I'll take a film soon.

I am going to set it up on an IC and with a Fet. I just gotta get the other stuff out of the way first.

Cheers
Matt

[blackchisel97]

Update on my setup

I checked all batteries; third one went from 10.5V to 12.52V and 1&2 dropped from 27V down to 25.52V. I need to work on the load tomorrow but I think that motor making more "noise" - brushed will be better.
I'll also try tomorrow 2 diodes across bad battery and Matt's 1 Ohm test, probably on monday.

I forgot to add that motor was running for nearly 3hrs. Normally it draws 1.9A at 12V.
Vtech

[clueless]

If my math is right

you gained .9 volt overall. All 3 bat at the start: 37.5 volts and at the end 38.4 volts. I don't know if I'm looking at it wrong but it seems to me you ran the motor and gained some in the process.

I checked all batteries; third one went from 10.5V to 12.52V and 1&2 dropped from 27V down to 25.52V. I need to work on the load tomorrow but I think that motor making more "noise" - brushed will be better.

Vtech

[Nasa Nate]

I found 24 pages of text to be intimidating, so as a visual learner i wanted to take thee oppurtunity to make a community mindmap of this project, so all the info is on 1 page. I think this would help any newcomer immensly. It sure would help me. I got the ball rolling. See the photo i attached.

here is the link to edit the map for the 3 battery system

Mindomo - Log In

you have to sign up,(that sucks sorry) but it lets you share a link for many people to collab. i think it will be helpful.

you just drag from the little arrow at the bottom of each bubble to make a new bubble.

Good Luck! I hope it takes off~

[Turion]

All,
I think you will find that for short runs you can get gains overall in the system, but without the right kind of batteries you will never get your primaries to maintain. They always lose some over time, even with a balanced load. At least that has been my experience. And I have had a hard time convincing people of even THAT, because they tell me it is just surface charge and no real gain.

I would encourage those of you who can, to start saving up for a couple of large deep cell lead acid batteries to be used in future experiments. I know they are costly and so far this has been a fairly low budget project, but the more we look at this, the more it appears you can get some things to happen with those larger batteries that have more capacity for ups and downs (you can hit them harder, and therefore they respond with higher spikes). I think that is the direction we are going to be headed with this to achieve our goals and want to give you all fair warning.

When Matt posts his video you are all going to want to replicate, and you WILL NOT get the results from 18 amp hour or less batteries. I know from experience. And I hate to see you all disappointed when you've all put in such hard work. I have this vision of your neighbors' cars with their hoods up and the batteries missing. For those of you who have a Walmart in the area they have deep cycle marine batteries for $99.00 I am investing in a bunch of those, as I want to be able to do some battery rotation and I need a bunch of them for my Tesla Switch project anyway.

Dave

[ewizard]

I just want to say something about those deep cycle Walmart batteries. I've got a fair number of them for various uses and in my experience they have been about the worst quality batteries I've ever had. Some only two years old are bad and won't hold any charge (by traditional charging methods). If they are up to $99 now I'd recommend looking around for another brand. The only good thing is if one is bad right away (which I've had happen twice) they are fairly good about replacing it.

Most bigger cities will also have rebuilt battery suppliers and those can come in at half or less cost than new ones. The may not last as long as new ones but you'll likely get a couple years use out of them at least and for this experiment it can save some bucks. I know things have changed in the last few years due to recycling and buy back value of dead batteries but in the past I got a lot of good batteries at those U-pull-it type wrecking yards for cheap. A lot of them were good for only a couple bucks but now I think you'll pay at least $10. Just check the date codes on them and bring a voltmeter. Stick to those less than 2 or 3 years old and ones that read over 12 volts. I know the voltage does not guarantee it's good but it generally means there are no dead cells and all the ones I got over 12 volts were good with a recharge.

[blackchisel97]

you gained .9 volt overall. All 3 bat at the start: 37.5 volts and at the end 38.4 volts. I don't know if I'm looking at it wrong but it seems to me you ran the motor and gained some in the process.

Yes, the math is right. I agree with Dave about deep cycle batt's. They would work better here. I have none atm. but hoping to get some from golf carts. They're 6V but great batteries to work with.

Thanks
Vtech

[blackchisel97]

I am going to set it up on an IC and with a Fet. I just gotta get the other stuff out of the way first.

Cheers
Matt

Matt, what is approx freq. you're running? I got this setup but need to drain battery more and get bigger heatsink for Fet. I'm pulsing with square from function gen. I wasn't able to find any bad battery today since scrap place was closed.

Thanks
Vtech

[Matthew Jones]

Matt, what is approx freq. you're running? I got this setup but need to drain battery more and get bigger heatsink for Fet. I'm pulsing with square from function gen. I wasn't able to find any bad battery today since scrap place was closed.

Thanks
Vtech

I doubt its given frequency. I'll list out what happens.
You have your motor running straight into the battery.
Then you connect the resistor and you get surge from the motor.
This surge causes the primary batts to drop (Surge currenta), and then they come back a bit.
As soon as they come back you release the connection from the resistor.
Now the batts spike back up above where they were, let them go back down to running voltage.

Repeat....ect..ect.ect..

I did this for 2 hours and lost nothing in my batteries. The motor was pushing 1.2 -1.5 amp and running a small load from its attached generator.

I am getting hooked up now and I will have that filmed this evening.

Cheers
Matt

[Stealth]

battery sources

If you live near a golf course or a forklift supply, you can possibly buy used batteries from them cheap. They are all deep cycle, high amp hour batteries with lots of reserve potential. Most golf batteries are 6 volt Trojan or equivalent and most forklift are either 24-48 volt, with most being 36 volts. Also heavy equipment batteries are high amp hour as well as over the road tractors. many sources are available if one of these are located close to you. Almost all these sell repacement batteries and take used ones in as trade in. Good Luck. stealth

[stonewater]

Deep Cycle Batteries

hi guys,

I was at costco yesterday, they are now selling deep cycle batteries, I did not get a chance to look at the weight, and could not find a manufacturer mark, but they look like crown manufacturered and they have the costco warranty. 89 dollars 225 amp hrs equivilant to trojan t125's

Tom

[blackchisel97]

I doubt its given frequency. I'll list out what happens.
You have your motor running straight into the battery.
Then you connect the resistor and you get surge from the motor.
This surge causes the primary batts to drop (Surge currenta), and then they come back a bit.
As soon as they come back you release the connection from the resistor.
Now the batts spike back up above where they were, let them go back down to running voltage.

Repeat....ect..ect.ect..

I did this for 2 hours and lost nothing in my batteries. The motor was pushing 1.2 -1.5 amp and running a small load from its attached generator.

I am getting hooked up now and I will have that filmed this evening.

Cheers
Matt

Ok, I follow now. I thought you're pulsing resistor with Fet but gated from another pulse source.
I'll wait for your video.

Thanks
Vtech