3 Battery Generating System

[blackchisel97]

The switch does not matter what really matters is your spiking inside the transformer. The output will go up as you add load to it. Or can slow the thing down and see if you get more power out that way. Sometimes going to fast doesn't give the core enough time to shut off and collapse.

Matt

I just changed to P Fet. It's small but just warm to touch. I need to get analog meters cause there is either something really good happening or they all went nuts
What I found so far:
- Fet needs to switch hard. Not enough in the gate and no gain.
- Higher freq = more power - just as you said Matt
I'm running at 27kHz at the moment and primaries stay around 12.7V and 12.6V for the past 25min. I have 20W load and 13.50V across.
When I go down with freq. B2 (bad one) goes up to even 16V but I can't hold V on primaries unless...I could use bigger load to hold B2 down .
I'm a bit worry about this small Fet and I only have couple of them (to kill, LOL).

I just noticed something; after awhile B2 slightly drops say from 13.7V - 13.4V. At the same time I see a slight drop in primaries but only in 0.02 range.

This is really promising

Forgot to add: I scope across secondary winding and I see over 30V spikes. This is under the load.
I'll try to get at least a picture. My daughter rolled down the stairs with camera in her hand. Daughter survived but display is dark and I can't see what I film until processing.
Cheers
Vtech

[blackchisel97]

What I see here is just another trick to get the same effect that in the Bedini/watson FEG machine back to 1984. Catching the negative radiant spike into a variable capacitor in-between motor pulses to transform it into positive radiant that can recharge the primary. Very easy to get running but very hard to tune. I'm currently running a bedini sg cap pulser and it does some strange things when properly tune. Like bringing an old dead alkaline 9v battery to full capacity and behond. The most difficult thing to do with these machines is to ajust the pulse width going to the cap and the discharge length of the cap going to the charging battery.

I see the best gain in this setup while running 50%. I tried less but not as good.
Yes, there is an analogy.

Cheers
Vtech

[Matthew Jones]

What I see here is just another trick to get the same effect that in the Bedini/watson FEG machine back to 1984. Catching the negative radiant spike into a variable capacitor in-between motor pulses to transform it into positive radiant that can recharge the primary. Very easy to get running but very hard to tune. I'm currently running a bedini sg cap pulser and it does some strange things when properly tune. Like bringing an old dead alkaline 9v battery to full capacity and behond. The most difficult thing to do with these machines is to ajust the pulse width going to the cap and the discharge length of the cap going to the charging battery.

I am not big on trying to compare any of Bedini's with stuff anything else.

So let me explain exactly were this transformer can go and how we relate to the original setup with the dead battery.
With the original setup the power comes out of the serial bank of batteries at 24 volt. Our potential is knocked down to the level that is allowed by the dead battery. So usually the dead battery starts letting things run about 15 volt or so, that gives us 7 volt.
Now if you watch the process on the scope the motor does very little to step up the 7 volt we have available. So any power trying to go back to the battery on the positive pole is not making it as would have to be 24+ to get in the battery.
So then the power must be going back to the primaries from the dead battery as reverse polarity. IE -24+ volt.
The dead battery performs a similiar operation on the voltage of the current as is performed in an inverting OpAmp.

So we have to emulate this in some form while running loads.

I have not got it all worked out but the transformer will be the key. Also timing. When serial connection is closed we must return the power but at the same we have to common things out on one poll or the other.

I have been thinking but I wanted to go ahead and put out for ideas.

Cheers
Matt

[blackchisel97]

Yes, my meters were going nuts but despite that it is working well. Quite a challenge to get it tuned. I'm still not sure how much potential I should allow across the bad battery (under the load).
There are freq. spots where either bad one starts to climb or primaries. I can see the spikes across the secondary winding and they may expand more up or down. It seems like finding balance between the two. I have this running for the past couple hrs.
I tried 10,000uF as wings with ultrafast recovery diodes but too many cables on the bench. I need to clean this up a bit.

Cheers
Vtech

[CrystalDipoleMatrix]

Getting things tuned up

It could be much easier to have a kind of sliding core for the transformer. Adjusting the core for proper inductance. An other thing too, a big variable capacitor like in the old days radios to find the proper capacitance value. It's like a tuned LC circuit with a secondary for the recovering. We know it already but sometimes it's good to keep remembering the base.

I will continue in my way of building things because I've understood a lot with bedini/bearden work, but I really think you've got something very promising in your hands. Keep up the good work!
Jean.

EDIT: Just a link to a great inventor thats doing the same thing as you do: ReGenX generator demonstration, Part 1 - YouTube

[Turion]

Matt,

I think most of us have seen the polarity reversal of the bottom battery at one time or another with this setup, especially if you fail to pull enough of a load off A2 with your inverter. This obviously happens because, regardless of the motor being in the middle, the Primaries and A2 are all wired in series. We know the direction of the current flow for the positive current because if it was in the opposite direction the motor would not run as it does. So current moves from the positive of P2 through the motor to the positive of A2. If the rest of our connections are #2 wire, but the connection between P2 and A2 is different, can we do something to make ENOUGH of a difference to change what happens in the system. Resistance? Capacity? Right now I'd bet most of us have some small wire making this connection because we are connecting the motor to both of these batteries and using it to make the connection and the motor wire is small. Maybe we need to change that, in one direction or the OTHER. Maybe even smaller wire instead of larger. I don't know. Or add resistance.

Another thought:
Is it that the voltage is going back to the primaries from battery A2 as you believe, or that the polarity of the voltage is somehow changed by the DC motor and sent back to the batteries from the motor as reverse voltage on the same line? Was it Carroll who said that the spikes occurred on the Primaries when he shut the system off even though there was an OPEN CIRCUIT "as long as the motor was running", and where was that opening in the open circuit? I don't remember, and I need to check back and review his post, because it is not in my notes...shame on me. I would think we could gain a lot of valuable information just by moving around the "opening" (switch) in the open circuit. Move the "switch" from one side of the motor to the other. Put it between P1 and A2. See what the location of the switch does to those spikes that hit the primaries "as long as the motor is running." Does that make any sense? If so, it may give us some insight into what we have to do as far as design elements on a solid state version. You guys are way better at the electronics than I am, so I have to look at this from a different perspective if I am going to make ANY contribution of value.

PS. Just now got all my parts UPS to build the newest version including the right mosfett and the small transformer. I will build the small version and then try to use my BIG transformer to build a larger version. First I want to get it working, THEN increase it in size and performance.

Dave

[mbrownn]

Matt,

Another thought:
Is it that the voltage is going back to the primaries from battery A2 as you believe, or that the polarity of the voltage is somehow changed by the DC motor and sent back to the batteries from the motor as reverse voltage on the same line? Was it Carroll who said that the spikes occurred on the Primaries when he shut the system off even though there was an OPEN CIRCUIT "as long as the motor was running", and where was that opening in the open circuit? I don't remember, and I need to check back and review his post, because it is not in my notes...shame on me. I would think we could gain a lot of valuable information just by moving around the "opening" (switch) in the open circuit. Move the "switch" from one side of the motor to the other. Put it between P1 and A2. See what the location of the switch does to those spikes that hit the primaries "as long as the motor is running." Does that make any sense? If so, it may give us some insight into what we have to do as far as design elements on a solid state version. You guys are way better at the electronics than I am, so I have to look at this from a different perspective if I am going to make ANY contribution of value.


Dave

Take a look at this simulation of a motor with three armature coils, you can see how the pole reversal happens. As each commutator segment passes the brush there is a moment of inductive kickback before the current from the battery reverses the direction in the coil. I don't know how to go about creating this effect with a transformer but I believe it is why the system works with a motor.

We have all read about transmitting electricity without wires, I believe that the spike effect on the battery with one connection could be doing this to some extent as I once had a similar effect on another circuit. The battery itself would be the antenna in this case. For example if we run a motor off a battery, the type that does give radio interference, and connect another battery via one terminal to the circuit, it will effectively be polarized like an antenna due to the spikes and polarity reversals in the motor. As the battery has internal resistance and capacitance, we can read a spike across it as the motor runs. I do not know what effects will be seen in this battery as I never tested it.

Does my explanation make sense to you as I don't think I have explained it very well.

With the setup I am running now, I am not getting very much at all on a battery with only one connection

[mbrownn]

ooops the simulation is here Circuit Simulator Applet

[Turion]

That is why I wanted to move the open spot (switch) in the circuit to different locations. When the switches gets turned off but the motor is still spinning spikes have been seen (on the scope) on the primaries. If moving the location of the switch kills those spikes, then they are the result of a physical connection. If moving the location does not, then something other than a physical connection is responsible for the spikes. Agreed? In other words, just moving the location of the open spot in the circuit can give us more information about how this system works. And we can use that kind of information to isolate WHERE those spikes originate, don't you think? This may help in building a comparable circuit, possibly without the motor and/or possibly without the bad batteries.

Dave

[mbrownn]

This is how I see it, it may not be correct but then again it might be. First we have to polarize the circuit, that is the good battery is one pole and the motor is the other. Any charge there is in the bad battery will do this. Any drain on that bad battery may be a part of it as then we have a current flow which makes the dipole dynamic and not static. once we have a suitable dipole situation, any radiant spikes will bridge the gap radiantly and the motor while it still has energy in its coils will provide those spikes.

If this proves to be the case then it is one more piece of proof that radiant energy exists.

It may be that the dipole battery has to be charged with radiant so placing a battery that has not just been under some form of a radiant charge may not be as effective.

Again I do think this point is significant, think about it, a radiant dipole

I think you will agree, radiant does not appear to be the same a normal electricity, I also suspect that static is not the same either. I suspect that any old dipole will not be effective, it has to be radiant but by its nature it will dissipate if not maintained in some way. what we have to do is is maintain the dipole and then the environment will do the rest provided we give it the spikes.

I think this may be worth a try. replace your motor with a universal motor that has had one field coil disconnected. The second field coil "compensates" or cancels out the reactive power in a universal motor so disconnecting it will release more arcing and radiant energy. Agreed it isn't great for the commutator and brushes but it will show you that there is more to this.

[mbrownn]

placing a small current into the now disused field coil will energize the motor coils so that while ever we mechanically spin it, it will create spikes.

[citfta]

Dave, The post where I was talking about the spikes getting back to the batts with the switch off is post #732 on page 25 of this thread. I just went back and found it because I wasn't sure what setup I was using when I saw that. It was the regular 3 batt setup with a mosfet circuit pulsing across the bad batt to let more current flow through the motor. The switch was between the motor and the positive of the good batt. The switch was a regular toggle switch not anything electronic so it should have isolated the motor spikes from the batts but I could still see them on the scope. The spikes were from the brushes of the motor not the pulses from the mosfet circuit.

Carroll

[mbrownn]

Dave, The post where I was talking about the spikes getting back to the batts with the switch off is post #732 on page 25 of this thread. I just went back and found it because I wasn't sure what setup I was using when I saw that. It was the regular 3 batt setup with a mosfet circuit pulsing across the bad batt to let more current flow through the motor. The switch was between the motor and the positive of the good batt. The switch was a regular toggle switch not anything electronic so it should have isolated the motor spikes from the batts but I could still see them on the scope. The spikes were from the brushes of the motor not the pulses from the mosfet circuit.

Carroll

That is exactly as I would expect.

If the circuit had been switched off for a long period and you started it again then switched off immediately, would your spikes still be there? if so are they bigger or smaller?

I don't know if this would effect efficiency but it would help us understand the nature of radiant energy

[fathershand]

TS

Dave, I just wanted you to know that I am still working on this. I am studying the Tesla switch design. I have a friend that is much more savvy than me about electronics and motors. We are looking at this together.

I'll report what we learn as we get some more tests under our belt.
Tony

[Turion]

Carroll,
That's the position of the switch I THOUGHT I remembered, and why I wondered what would have happened to those spikes had it been on the OTHER side of the motor, cutting the motor off from the primary batteries. If an off switch in that position eliminates the spikes, does it then indicate that current flows to the motor and the motor reacts by sending something BACK to the primaries. AND if it DOES...
1. Can that process be eliminated by the placement of a diode which eliminates the back spike or forces it in the other direction?
2. what happens when you do that?
3. Can you separate that process into two parts where current goes from primaries to motor on one wire (with a diode) and back to the primaries on another wire (with a diode.
4. You put a transformer into the circuit at this point so that current passes through it one direction on one wire, in another direction on another wire, and you pull energy out to send back to the primaries on a third wire.
This is what I was thinking of when I said very early on that I was thinking of some combination of this setup and Matt's tesla switch work with transformers. Trying to get a "two for one" use of the current that is being moved around in this system. It's one of the MANY things I wanted to try with the basic system. But something Matt said about the motor made me think it doesn't really shut completely off enough to pulse something like that, or is too slow, so I began to feel like it probably wouldn't work and never tried it. Still an interesting idea though.

Dave