3 Battery Generating System

[Turion]

boguslaw,
If you have a patent on something...what does that mean? My wife works in intellectual property law and does this stuff for a living, so I KNOW what it means. Here are some of the things you might or might not know about a patent.

1. It protects your rights so that others cannot manufacture and sell your patented device. But if I shared with you how to construct it, you could build your own, (as long as you don't start selling them to make a profit) however, if I disclose that info to TOO many people BEFORE I have a patent (and someone can prove I did), I no longer have the right to try and GET a patent because I have made it "public knowledge" and the line as to how many people constitutes "public knowledge" is VERY blurry. I believe that answers your most important concern. Would I dump the solution on this thread? Sure....right after my provisional patent was filed. Build one for yourself....what do I care?

If I think you are manufacturing and selling MY device, as the patent holder, my patent gives me the right to sue you....if I have the money to do that. First I have to find out you are doing it and then I have to defend my patent by taking you to court. So if Exxon starts manufacturing a look alike device, I have to go up against them and all their lawyers and alllllll their money in court to try and defend my patent. Won't that be fun?? What do you think my chances are, because....

2. If ANYONE challenges ANY PARTt of your patent in court saying it was covered by a prior patent, then YOU must go to court and defend your patent. Failure to do so will void your patent. So if you come up with something good, every major entity out there is gonna haul your butt into court claiming that some patent they dug up is a prior patent of some part of your device, and unless you have incredibly deep pockets, you are dead in the water before you get off the ground. Try to fight off 25 or 30 lawsuits from a major corporation that wants nothing more than for you to give up so they can file on your device.

SO the ONLY intelligent thing to do is file for a provisional patent, which allows you to contact some deep pocket investors who will give you some research money to operate with for a while and try to perfect the thing. Then sell the rights to the sucker before your provisional expires. Sell some kits....go on TV....write a book....Become famous as the guy or group of guys that changed the world. I know better than to think I will ever get rich off this stuff. Not possible. There is too much prior research out there in this area, and they will drag up some patent from somewhere that kills you.

Matt and I have talked about this a lot. I talk to my wife about it every day, and she talks to others in the intellectual property field who fight these kinds of battles all the time.

If we work together and find something, we could file a provisional patent and possibly get some research money or sell the rights to somebody with deep pockets, but to expect to be able to patent a device and defend that patent against all those big boys who want to shut you down? FAT CHANCE!

If you're going to get rich off this it will be because you become famous as the person or group who changed the world. That's it. ....or maybe file a provisional....leak the plans on the internet in a few places...let someone start manufacturing them and become really rich, then sue them for patent infringement. Yeah, that might work!

[tachyoncatcher]

Well said, Dave.

[Turion]

Duncan and all,
I think research into batteries, possibly even into dead batteries might be our next best steps. If we are hitting battery three with a voltage that is too low to charge it, or pulses that are too quick, or pulses that are too long or too much time between pulses or SOMETHING that doesn't let it charge, this would be what we want, and would mean we could use a discharged battery instead of a dead one for our potential difference.

So how can we take a potential of 18-24 volts difference and only allow enough of it to get to the battery that the battery doesn't charge. How low does that voltage have to be to not charge the battery? Lets try hooking up some discharged batteries into a charging situation and figuring out what we can do to NOT charge them that still allows us to run our 12 volt motor....or maybe we use a 6 volt brushed DC motor or a 3 volt brushed DC radio shack motor. Possibly using a lower voltage motor will affect the setup, as in the motor will start to run sooner, thereby NOT allowing the battery to begin to charge up as soon, or SOMETHING. I think all of these things are worth a try. And I think a methodical process where we see what different pulse widths with different off times does to batteries as far as charging them is the kind of data we need to accumulate to figure out what direction to go.

I'm going to start looking around for some lower voltage brushed DC motors to see what happens. I KNOW we can find some cheap ones to experiment with and there are some REALLY GOOD 6 volt motors out there that could be used to run loads if this idea has any merit.

By the way, I posted about the 3BGS on John B's new forum and here's what he had to say about the original schematic:
@All,
These diagrams come about from the original Tesla Switch this is something that we used to find potential charge. for example you can move charges with the same polarity.
We could never get anybody to study the results. My German Friend told a story of charging single dry cell batteries by rubbing his Keys across them. I showed him the circuits your working with here, he said it worked every time with a mechanical switch. It had something to do with the sparking, or a single pulse. You could call this a spike of voltage. He worked for NASA and the information vanished one day So I'm sure they got the system working and he never was seen again. People have seen some strange effects from this arrangement providing the batteries were rotating electronically at 10 Hz. when the machine was stopped all batteries were charged to full. The load was set by a single resistor or a 12 volt car tail light.

Dave

[Turion]

Thanksgiving Thanks

Just thought I'd take this opportunity to thank all of you who have contributed to what is going on here on this thread. Every tiny bit of information helps and it always helps to know that others have seen the same kinds of things that we have seen and also believe thereis something here worth exploring.

The research goes on, and hopefully we will soon have some things to show you that will start the new year off in the right direction. Take care all, and have a great holiday season.

Dave

[torpex]

Hi all

@Turion
I recently had amazing results, I was investigating and I could not repeat it again.
As I posted I have a suspicion that the bad battery was the source.
Courage, we investigated.

[Turion]

torpex,

What kind of results did you get? I'm always interested to hear. Some folks have had it run for a couple days and then die.

Dave

[Turion]

Had some pretty amazing results today. Will try to make time to take some video tomorrow and post it. Sooooooo close!

[JJUK]

Had some pretty amazing results today. Will try to make time to take some video tomorrow and post it. Sooooooo close!

Great news Dave. Still nothing on my setup I'm afraid but I'm persisting! The dead batteries are VERY dead though so perhaps I'll try slightly less dead ones next.

[wwdotme]

Hi Dave

I got some parts together last night to try this set up. For a 24v I used 4 6v energizer lantern batteries (all I had my acid batteries where to dead) a 12v motor out some toy and for my 3rd battery I used a group 31 semi truck battery(whitch is twice the size of a car battery).

I got it to run the motor last night then stopped to reread what you had said in the beginning.

When I hooked everything up this morning the motor did not start and the dead
battery read same voltage as my source 25+ v just a few minutes passed and the motor started and battery 3 started dropping, Motor sped up.

So got that much going, will charge my acid batteries up and use them instead of lantern batteries.
In the mean time I will keep rereading everything to try and replicate what you have done..

thanks Bill

[Turion]

Today I have been running the motor on several different three battery setups. On the current one, the primaries each dropped 2 100ths of a volt, but are now holding steady. The third battery gained 2 100ths of a volt, but seems to be maintaining. This is after a 30 minute run. I Will let it run for several hours and report back.

Bill, glad to have you aboard. We need more people working on this.
Good luck, and keep us posted.

Dave

[mbrownn]

Hi guys, I must admit I have not been following this thread for a while but in my research into the Lockridge I have come across something that may apply to your thread http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post216081

I believe there may be a small difference in the windings of a PM dc motor but could it be possible that this is also happening in these motors. Universal motors need to be compensated to prevent a high voltage building up in the armature. We are now getting such high voltages in our athat arcs are occurring between the armature and the negative brush. It may be worth a look.

[Turion]

mbrown,
We have always known that the motor was making a contribution of power to this circuit. You can see it when you put a scope on the setup. Glad to have your input any time, and it is nice to see that others believe the same.

I had a long run today....10 hours. During that time battery three, which started at a reading of .00 volts also ended with a reading of .00 volts. In other words, we have figured out how to keep a dead battery dead. It was only a matter of time. Of interest to many of you will be this.... With a meter on the battery, the "-" sign would flash on and off on the meter. I tried two different meters and got the same reaction. It was as if the meter were connected with its positive lead on the negative pole for an instant, and then connected correctly. It is our belief (at least I think Matt agrees, since we have talked about it) that, as the motor runs, battery three seems to reverse its polarity back and forth. I did lose 1/10 of a volt on the primaries during this run, but this was with a stock motor. A pulsed motor will perform better and there are some other changes Matt and I have discussed that may improve performance. When we loop the setup, we'll let you know. LOL

Dave

[tachyoncatcher]

Congratulations!

Keeping that battery dead has been the biggest pain. While I could kill the battery so that it would not charge, I ALWAYS destroyed its ability to convert at the same time. Making it useless for the 3rd battery. Way to go!
Randy

[Duncan]

Good news

It sounds very much like your persistence is at last rewarded!

[mbrownn]

mbrown,
We have always known that the motor was making a contribution of power to this circuit. You can see it when you put a scope on the setup. Glad to have your input any time, and it is nice to see that others believe the same.

Dave

On a perminant magnet DC motor we see a voltage ripple around the supply voltage and some transients as the commutator switches as you know. I don't have the ability to scope anything at the moment, all my stuff was stolen and the motor we are testing is in the US while I am in the far east however I have asked for scope shots and hope I will soon have some.

Effectively all we have is a universal motor with one of the field coils as an output/generator coil and the other (power) field coil is moved from its normal position. This now is a uncompensated universal motor. It is known that the compensation coil was to reduce arcing at the commutator but as we have now got a load/resistance on this coil we have arcing on the commutator. What was not expected was that these arcs are jumping from the commutator to the negative brush and not being drawn out by breaking the contact.

I suspect there may be a difference between the windings of a standard PM motor and the universal motor which is significant as we don't see this on a permanent magnet motor.

It could be the many and complex transformer actions too as the power field coil and the armature are currently being supplied by half wave rectified AC. This was used as a rough approximation of pulsed DC. We have no recovery circuits on it as yet. The motor is also set up in attraction.

At this stage I do not know which if any of the above is relevant but I do know that the armature is set up as a continuous loop of coils and that a form of lap winding is used. There is more than one method of lap winding with some consisting of two separate windings sort of in parallel. I don't know which type this one is.

As the commutator brush slips off one segment of the commutator onto the next there is a period of time where one of the coils in the loop (one under each brush so 2 in all) is shorted through the brush. It is known that this has an effect on the inductance of the whole loop. It is also known that the shorted coil will try to maintain its current flow in through the short until the energy stored in that coil is dissipated but because it is a dead short, I have a question. Is the current in this one coil higher than the rest of the armature? We normally think that this coil has no current in it but inductive kickback tells us that there must be.

Assuming that there is a current flowing through this coil, we have to ask what effects this has on the rest of the coils in the loop?

Now if our two field coils, the motor and generator, are the same number of windings we have a 1 to 1 transformer. If the armature is in series we have a 2 to 1 transformer so we would expect a similar or lower voltage in our output coil but this is not the case, we are getting 5 to 10 times the voltage all be it at a reduced current. It was while we were investigating this that the arcing was noticed which must be in the Kv range to arc the way it does. We are assuming that this is the cause of the voltage gain.

If this can happen in our motor, could it be made to happen in the 3 battery generating system? and what effect would that have on your system?

At the moment, I am not sure of this so any input would be appreciated.