3 Battery Generating System

[Duncan]

welcome

Hello folks,
This amazing thread has held my attention for about 2 weeks and I decided to make my first post.
I have been researching electricity and free energy for about 2 years; my main occupation is making paintings. While it's been a stretch to go from painting to electronics, I can say that the knowledge I have gained so far is enough to make me,
A: Lucky
and/or
B: Dangerous
Here are some thoughts on the subject. Please forgive if nothing makes sense..I'm just throwing it out there.
It seems to me that the use of the dead battery might turn the circuit into a type of antenna. I'm thinking here of Tesla's circuit where he uses a plate in the air to collect positive charge and a plate in the ground to collect negative charge. He then uses a capacitor in the circuit to periodically shunt current into a tank circuit for timed reintegration.
In Turion's circuit, the negative plates in the battery might be acting as Tesla's ground. I was thinking that it might be possible the DC motor is contributing positive charge through reactance. If the reactance induced a current into your "antenna" circuit, then it would be with the current, not opposing it. I think the dead battery is doing double duty as a capacitor as well.
Also, I know that if you put a load on the motor, you are changing the phase relation between the voltage and current. My guess is that when you balance the loads between the generator and the dead battery, you recalibrate the phase back to 90 degrees or very close to that. I don't know if that matters, I thought it deserved mentioning.

I am guessing that the dead battery would allow for reflection of any oscillations that the motor might be producing. If that were the case, then chances are the waves are constructively interfering and creating maximum potential..ie. unity as it was expressed in that video, "Similarities of Wave Behavior". From that state it would only take the smallest amount of energy to go "overunity".

Regarding the slow polarity flips, the thing that comes to mind is a precession. I am thinking that something like magnetic moment is slowly rotating to produce a periodic flip.
Well, that is my little contribution, I hope it sparks something, hey, hey.
John

Welcome Obie a fresh thinker always a big help! I was pondering along the same lines as you. I have taken the privileged step, of sending you your first PM with an outline. I don't really want to confuse the thread with my hot air however I would be interested in your take as I amplify what you have posted again welcome to energetics and the excitement that the 3BS is starting to generate (and yes the pun is intended)

[Michael John Nunnerley]

OK all I'm done

Hi All

I have decided not to remake a video as it is not really going to show a lot, so an explination and a scope shot should do it. Here goes

The motor and Batt3 are a series conection, why, because the positive of a battery IS A CATHODE. That being said Batt3 is seen as a variable resistor, but when the electrons arrive there from the motor, they see it as storage for them and so charge the battery "or try if it is duff". This will continue until the batt3 reaches it's design voltage, in this case 12v+-. As the voltage rises in batt3 the resistance changes, it goes higher and so causes less electrons to pass through the motor causing it to slow down.

Now if you put a load across the batt3, the resistance will change and the motor will speed up passing more current "electrons" which go through the load and batt3. The load also starts using some of those stored electrons as well as electrons going directly to the load. More electrons now can move into the batt3 for storage "in one end and out the other. Both the batt3 and the load are sending electrons to the back end of the drive batteries, but the electrons from the batt3 are a little different in so much as they are fresh electrons from the chemical storage (electrons aleady used once in the motor and used to charge the batt3). That last part is very difficult to explain, but take it from me, that is what is happening, think HARD about it .

The motor gives a VERY SMALL voltage and current in the form of generation, this is due to magnetic interaction as seen on this scope shot.


Now the run time of the system will be extended, but not by the motor output, as you see on the scope shot I did, it is very small. It will be extended by the storage of the used electrons from the motor and now in the batt3 as free charge, and then reused in the load and part to the back end of the run batteries.

Now as I have said before, the return to the back end battery cells is causing cell reversal, the extent of which depends on the potencial voltage difference at that point of entry.

By loading the motor you change the resistance and in doing so change the parameters in the rest of the circuit. The best senario is when the motor is loaded to a point that batt3 is just about full with electrons along with the load across it consuming electrons.

This is when you will get the longest possible run time, and maybe unity plus the loads. This last part is conjecture as it would have to be demonstrated and would be up to a maximum of electrons passing through the motor and being collected for use a secound time, the maximum would be 200% as said before.

I hope you all heed what I have said, it is good and bad, the bad is the back end cells of the drive batteries, I do not know how long they would stand up to this.

Ask what questions you want and I will try to answer them, one thing there is NO EXTERNAL ENERGY ENTERING THE SYSTEM so don't ask.

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Forgot to say

Forgot to say, putting a bad battery in position 3 will most of the time make it good like a Bedini system, the scope shot is what is going to that battery from the motor.

Mike

[Duncan]

Thanks!

It will take me a while to digest what you have written here and the implications , however if there's a 200% advantage that’s still huge. It also as you note repairs batteries PDQ and that’s huge too. There seems to be a lot of difference between what I observed regarding battery three and motor speed and what you have experienced. That being said I have only done one run and even then not to a standstill and so I'll reserve judgement until these guys who have been running tests for years pass comment. As for the case of this machine running COP>1 because of some ambient effect I'm sure every one takes note that you don't wish to be questioned or debate the possibility.
Which of course must not be allowed to close the subject down to legitimate speculation and investigation. As we are all running different motors , batteries, cables we are predictably and inevitably experiencing different results. (Including you of course Mike).
However I'm sure every one will respect you wishes and not concern you with the possibility.
Like every one else Mike I'm grateful for the time and effort you have expended every scrap of information on this exciting project is useful.

[Turion]

Thanks Mike!

I think we will have to agree to disagree on some things, because I know what I have seen, but I sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have put into this.

I know how long I powered loads for, and it far exceeds what three batteries are capable of doing. But until I can replicate that, I have no evidence. I don't know whether my motor was just acting as a really GOOD generator or what, but it continued to supply my inverter with 12 volts of power for a week straight. And my primaries were charged at the end of that time. So either there was an outside source of energy, or an awesome generator effect. I do not care which. All I want to do is replicate it.

Right now my setup is running and doing well. Here is some video of the high voltage spikes I am getting off my pulse motor. I do have a scope, but barely know how to work it. If there are scope shots you would like me to take, I would be happy to try and do that. I am going down now to put an amp meter on this because I think we know what volts without amps are worth.
3BGS - YouTube

In the interest of honesty and of saving someone else from my mistakes. I just checked my batteries by shutting the system down and checking their resting voltages. I usually expect it to be down a couple tenths on a bad run and up a few hundredths on a good run. One of my batteries was down to 10 volts. This happened to me yesterday running this thing with an earth ground on one of my runs and I thought it was an anomaly or a bad battery. apparently NOT. I killed that battery DEAD yesterday, so beware of the earth ground. I don't have time to see if this batt will take a charge because I need to pack and go, but I may well have killed a second battery.

Dave

Oh, and I'm leaving town for a week....going to pack up right now, so I don't know how much I will be around until I get back. Can access this thread on my phone though.

[Matthew Jones]

Hi All......

Now as I have said before, the return to the back end battery cells is causing cell reversal, the extent of which depends on the potencial voltage difference at that point of entry.
.......
Ask what questions you want and I will try to answer them, one thing there is NO EXTERNAL ENERGY ENTERING THE SYSTEM so don't ask.

Mike

So I am NOT a scientist, but what I do have on my side is 8 practical years of experience in potential based systems like the Tesla Switch and stuff.
So far your explanation sounds alot like I have been saying for several months now at least.

I do not agree with the Cell reversal. At least the way I understand you explaining it. The Cell reversal happens in the primary battery???

If thats not what your saying then I am mistaken.

Maybe you have a Cell reversal in the Dead battery. But more than likely not.
You most likely induce a reversed charge onto the negative plate. That charge is at a higher (Lower on the negative side) than the ground pole of the primary battery and that charge is then released back to add charge to the primary batteries. I have watched this happen with several other things as well using caps.

I do not understand the "Fresh Electron" Theory. Not to be critical or rude or anything but can show me the difference between a slightly used electron and a fresh one. . Probably Not...

If you scope the whole system through when its working you should see a lag between whats going to ground and whats going in the dead battery. Not much but it is there, at least on my scope. Its a smaller echo of the wave form coming from the motor.

As far motors go most of them have at least a 5% increase in power output when driven between 2 like potentials. If you have ever scoped a Tesla Switch with motor on it this becomes very apparent very quickly. Certain pulse motors can far exceed that. For some reason you get rise in voltage while maintaining current. Its usually in the ripple about 1-2 volt but can go higher.

So in the case of David getting charging in his batteries while on film (posted above) there is no extra energy causing this charging? When the batteries settled out and they were at a higher level then he started there was no extra energy that caused that??? What's with that, huh, Fresh electrons???

Sorry I am not trying to be a smart ass I just feel like a practical answer is there somewhere, instead we get what I consider pseudo mysticism.

So on another note I have been running Salt bridges till I am blue in the face and have yet to do anything but gas off the fluid versions. I did not get any effect at all. Nothing that even looked close to the one dead battery I have.

And after trying 20 or so batteries I just got, that are dead or on the way being there, I still haven't found another candidate. So back to the drawing board on that one.

Cheers
Matt

[Turion]

Running out the door now. But just to be clear...on this last run that I showed video of, the primaries were getting those huge spikes, but did not settle out at a higher voltage...one battery is MUCH lower. They are going up a little, but I have to leave so won't see where they end up.

BUT...this was with an earth ground, and many, many times they HAVE settled out at a higher voltage or climbed during the run and then settled out at an even higher voltage...without the earth ground. Those videos are posted here in different places.

Dave

to steal Matt's phrase...
Gone Baby Gone

[citfta]

Not in the "zone"

I think the problem may be that Mike and some of the other people that are trying to explain this system is they have not actually seen it working when it is in the "zone". If you have actually seen this system operate when in the zone you know there is more going on than just a reversal of the chemistry in the dead battery. I am afraid a lot of people assume any dead battery will work for battery 3. This is absolutely not true! Only a very few batteries seem to have whatever it is that makes them work as a "good" dead battery. I have tried very many and only found a couple that let me get in the "zone" and then they started taking a charge and lost that ability. As Matt just said he has looked through a whole stack to find one that worked like we need it to. If you can't get your system into the zone then your battery is not suitable and you will never see what we have seen. Dave has stressed this over and over but I don't see very many people following this advice.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[PhysicsProf]

Guys,

Folks send me emails all the time about what they are doing with this setup. Today I got one that is most interesting and he asked that I not reveal his name, but wanted to share his results. He has been running the setup for FOUR DAYS (off and on) so far, and the primaries continue to charge whenever it is running, which is a good sign. What is different is that he is using a cap and NO bad battery, and still getting the primaries to INCREASE in voltage whenever it is running. Schematic attached.

...

I like this circuit Dave posted a couple of days ago, because a cap is used instead of a "good-dead battery", which is evidently problematical.

So I bought a couple of R-shack motors as specified, had a 4.9uF cap (400VAC) which may be too big? , and two 12V batteries (5A-h). Then I set up the circuit as drawn this afternoon. Two volt meters, one on each battery.

However, there seems to be something wrong with the circuit as drawn. I found that both motors spun, but ONLY battery B (on the right) dropped in voltage. Disconnecting battery A from the cap -- no change.

Pls look at the circuit again, attached. Dave - can you ask the sender to re-check his circuit drawing? I think it is wrong since (as drawn), there is a path from point 1 to point 7, both on Battery B, without going through the cap or battery A.
Or perhaps someone else can see how to "correct" the circuit? I tried a couple of things, no luck...

Thanks!

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Matt and all

do not agree with the Cell reversal. At least the way I understand you explaining it. The Cell reversal happens in the primary battery???

The back end battery of the two drive batteries, if they do not reverse it is because the potencial is still to high, but that back end battery will drop in charge in relation to the front battery.

The batt3 does not go into reversal, you did not read about electrolytic cells and which is the anode and cathode of a battery.

Fresh electron was a bad name to call it. The electrons that past through the motor were used to charge Batt3 " they are stored in Batt3". When a draw demand is made on Batt3, new electrons are give out, have you got it now, all to do with battery chemistry.

f you scope the whole system through when its working you should see a lag between whats going to ground and whats going in the dead battery. Not much but it is there, at least on my scope. Its a smaller echo of the wave form coming from the motor.

Hmmmm. the only place you need to scope is from the motor to Batt3, and that is what I have posted and you will see the rms voltage, not much as you say, but probably good for rejuvenating batteries.

So in the case of David getting charging in his batteries while on film (posted above) there is no extra energy causing this charging? When the batteries settled out and they were at a higher level then he started there was no extra energy that caused that??? What's with that, huh, Fresh electrons???

It's call bouncing back especially when they have been pushed in a direction of reversal, I can show that any time you want from -2v to +5v in secounds, again this is battery chemistry.

Sorry I am not trying to be a smart ass I just feel like a practical answer is there somewhere, instead we get what I consider pseudo mysticism.

So on another note I have been running Salt bridges till I am blue in the face and have yet to do anything but gas off the fluid versions. I did not get any effect at all. Nothing that even looked close to the one dead battery I have.

pseudo mysticism, I am not a mystic, I am a person that looks at the logical first and all I have pointed out is what I have seen in tests. No super strange batteries, lets face it, how many different possibilities can there be inside a battery, come on, use your brain, how is a battery made?

The salt bridge was to put between the Batt3 and the back battery so you could SEE WHAT WAS HAPPENING THERE. If you did that then you would have noticed that only one plate gases, also you would have seen the electron movement. I posted all this before. It should look like a dead battery if you did it right.

And after trying 20 or so batteries I just got, that are dead or on the way being there, I still haven't found another candidate. So back to the drawing board on that one.

I should GOLD PLATE that battery, if out of 20 you only have one that works for you, maybe there is something special in the acid, or maybe it has no acid or maybe it is shorted, what else can happen to a battery to make it bad

Come on you have a system which has a potencial of cop>2 but a back end drive battery problem, all explained which breaks no rules. Maintaining the right balance just might be a nighmare, well doing it this way.

Mike

[Obie]

Hello again

Thanks so much for the warm welcome from Turion and Duncan.
I won't really have a chance to go over the new material, including what Duncan sent me, until Saturday.
In the meantime, I've read some of your personal comments and I kind of fit in being 59 years old. Turion's thoughts in particular resonate with me. I identify with the "let's do it ourselves" spirit.
The main players in this field, at least as it is covered by Sterling Allan, don't show much interest in the average household. If we left it up to them, we would still end up paying utilities for power, and nothing basically would be different. Whatever it takes here to figure it out is worth it.
John

[Matthew Jones]

Hmmmm. the only place you need to scope is from the motor to Batt3, and that is what I have posted and you will see the rms voltage, not much as you say, but probably good for rejuvenating batteries.

So you know beyond Shadow of doubt thats all you need to look at in this circuit. No other suggestions are valid?

It's call bouncing back especially when they have been pushed in a direction of reversal, I can show that any time you want from -2v to +5v in seconds, again this is battery chemistry.

Ya I would like to see that. Because as a matter of fact I have watched 2 batteries series for along time now acting just like the 2 batteries in this system do. The one without load (Hooked to the Common) after it always discharges further than the one with the load. In fact its one of the problems I have had to overcome in several versions of my Tesla Switch. But Cell reversal would not have been the answer for what was wrong or I would not have learned to compensate for it.
Those batteries drop further a Tesla Switch or in conventional setup for that matter because they have more load. You start with the load it draw from the battery (Or CELL for that matter) nearest to it The other get drawn off of in chain formation where every one above has more stress to maintain charge then the one below causing the furthest cell away to have the most stress and therefore the most depletion.
At least that how it was explained to me... And that sound like a little more common sense than Cell reversal. But then again you may know more than the Chemical Engineer I befriended from a local University. Who knows....

I should GOLD PLATE that battery, if out of 20 you only have one that works for you, maybe there is something special in the acid, or maybe it has no acid or maybe it is shorted, what else can happen to a battery to make it bad
Mike

There are 17 ways a battery can die. Use your head and do your homework.

Answers to the rest of your post are coming. With Film.

I like this circuit Dave posted a couple of days ago, because a cap is used instead of a "good-dead battery", which is evidently problematical.

So I bought a couple of R-shack motors as specified, had a 4.9uF cap (400VAC) which may be too big? , and two 12V batteries (5A-h). Then I set up the circuit as drawn this afternoon. Two volt meters, one on each battery.

However, there seems to be something wrong with the circuit as drawn. I found that both motors spun, but ONLY battery B (on the right) dropped in voltage. Disconnecting battery A from the cap -- no change.

Pls look at the circuit again, attached. Dave - can you ask the sender to re-check his circuit drawing? I think it is wrong since (as drawn), there is a path from point 1 to point 7, both on Battery B, without going through the cap or battery A.
Or perhaps someone else can see how to "correct" the circuit? I tried a couple of things, no luck...

Thanks!

Best guess both motors spin in opposite directions and the cap has an Earth ground.
But personally I wouldn't waist any time or money on that circuit. Just from looking at it.
You do what you want though.

Matt

[tachyoncatcher]

Validation

I too have had the experience that Dave and Matt speak of. I was using 3 12v 7ah SLCs. One dead. The primaries were charged to slightly over 12.5v the dead was 2.1v. I used a 12v dc pm hobby motor used to start RC airplane motors. I put a band on the spindle as a adjustable load by tightening the band. I had a 2k inverter paralleled on bat 3. I was able to get it running as Dave has outlined in vids and here on prior posts. I ran 2 incandescent bulbs on the inverter. One 40watt and one 100watt for 4 hours. I had the motor loaded down heavily with the strap. The motor got very warm. The primaries charged, one to 12.7 and one to 13.07, the dead battery charged to 11.2v. All the while the bulbs and the inverter worked normally. This happened once. The newly charged dead battery would never work as it had the night before. I have never again got the system to work with other dead batteries. I have shared this with Dave but did not want the ridicule of this forum. There is something more to this than meets the eye or logic of classical EM training. I believe what I have witnessed. All voltages described above were standing voltages.

We're kinda like Franklin working with electricity without the electron. We can see results but we have no clue what we are working with, as it has not been identified other than it synonyms, like radiant, aether. Whatever it is, science hasn't described it yet. I will duplicate this as I too am a stubborn +50 year old.
Good luck to the replicators trying this. And to doubters, well... whatever.
Randy

[Duncan]

dont work for me!

I like this circuit Dave posted a couple of days ago, because a cap is used instead of a "good-dead battery", which is evidently problematical.

So I bought a couple of R-shack motors as specified, had a 4.9uF cap (400VAC) which may be too big? , and two 12V batteries (5A-h). Then I set up the circuit as drawn this afternoon. Two volt meters, one on each battery.

However, there seems to be something wrong with the circuit as drawn. I found that both motors spun, but ONLY battery B (on the right) dropped in voltage. Disconnecting battery A from the cap -- no change.

Pls look at the circuit again, attached. Dave - can you ask the sender to re-check his circuit drawing? I think it is wrong since (as drawn), there is a path from point 1 to point 7, both on Battery B, without going through the cap or battery A.
Or perhaps someone else can see how to "correct" the circuit? I tried a couple of things, no luck...

Thanks!

Hi Proff .. I would have posted earlier , except I did not have exactly the same capacitor mine being
1.2 Uf , (There was also a safety leakage resistor across the capacitor which I couldn’t remove without destruction) if did not have the same batteries Mine being 17ah and I did not have the same motor but some thing similar and so really all said and done I'm trying to compare apples with oranges.
I strapped the ground cable to the house main water pipe.
Here's this crap camera again

I simply noticed a gradual decline in battery voltage. And stopped after seven hours of running.
Which isn't to say it doesn't have merit, There are unknowns .. I don’t know what the guys earth impedance was, and I don’t know if his motors were driving loads or even if they were running in the same direction.
I suspect if this system works all the component parts have been listed with good reason, And viewed from a repeated experiment point of view I have quite candidly made a total hash of it.
Indeed I didn't intend posting on it at all being so far off the mark, however as I see you intend expending time and money prof .. that’s my experience.
Like Matt and Luther and David and all the others I have by lucky accident smelt the new mown hay and had an experience of what this set up can do, I don't intend drifting to far from that original basic set up again without good reason.

[Duncan]

snowball's anyone ? Tis the season

Hi Matt .. sorry to say the sum total of my chemistry would probably fit quite comfortably on the front of a match box, (just under the electrical theory) however behind the scenes (a chemistry guy who does not wish to be named) has PM’s me he's decided to use his chemistry degree and acumen with regard to killing and stabilising that “pesky battery” if as you point out Its like Heinz with many varieties he's going to have his work cut out , Still There are as David points out lots of people putting an awful lot of effort into this project back stage. And the ambition and reason is easy … The effects there !!
The more folks (who like Tachyoncatcher has been kind enough to do) come forward and are prepared to publicly admit they have experienced this , The more folks will get off their arses and try it. (just like I have Done) … eventually. I am minded of this passage, for obvious reasons

Tesla was roaming in the mountains with some chums one winter day after a storm in which the snow fell moist and sticky. A small snowball rolled on the ground quickly gathered more snow to itself and soon became a big one that was not too easy to move. Tiring of making snowmen and snow houses on level stretches of ground, the boys took to throwing snowballs down the sloping ground of the mountain. Most of them were duds--that is, they got stalled in the soft snow before they accumulated additional volume. A few rolled a distance, grew larger and then bogged down and stopped. One, however, found just the right conditions; it rolled until it was a large ball and then spread out, rolling up the snow at the sides as if it were rolling up a giant carpet, and then suddenly it turned into an avalanche. Soon an irresistible mass of snow was moving down the steep slope. It stripped the mountainside clean of snow, trees, soil and everything else it could carry before it and with it. The great mass landed in the valley below with a thud that shook the mountain. The boys were frightened because there was snow above them on the mountain that might have been shaken into a downward slide, carrying them along buried in it.

And as for the scientists And really that should be said in "hushed tones" around here shouldn’t it?
Because this could be right

“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane”

Nikki

So because Its “cheap as chips” and because the energy return is so huge, because so many people have reported the same thing, because there's no high voltages or endless coils to wind why not try it and give an honest report ? I can't promise your attempt will result in the avalanche or even a very big snow ball but every time some one rolls the odds get narrowed. And just a word of advice when you have connected it up, and it doesn't work and the motor doesn’t turn .. leave it connected . It will adjust and start all by itself.

The Initial concept of this machine as David visualised it came from the Tesla switch . Tesla said
“The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine.”

Well we are on the cusp of that future, And its not ours It is however our children’s and grand children’s the lay of the land and their future is quite clear to see if this truth which has been buried for well over a hundred years is not exposed. And the people who have caused the corruption brought to account
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
So please … oh ever so please go and find that old (brushed) model motor and that knackered battery at the back of the drawer, beg or borrow a couple of other batteries … and try it
Make the attempt not to be what George calls “wilfully ignorant”
Now if I happen to have upset or offended anyone by what I have written here then …. I don’t give a toss.
Tesla deserves it and your children and grandchildren do too
http://content.mycutegraphics.com/gr...wballfight.gif