3 Battery Generating System

[Duncan]

for consideration

I remember being told at school that a 1 Farad capacitor was an impossibility and the plate area would be bigger than the surface of the globe . I guess that just shows what an old fart I am!
Anyway after Mike posted the suggestion of Maxwell caps I snuffled about on google for a while and came up with this now I don’t have these caps and I haven’t tried this but the first link of this forum tells the story.
12V BoostPack
Having said all that It seems very likely that its something to do with the chemical composition of a badly abused battery that we seek. (perhaps) but for what its worth ...
anyway those things dont seem avaliable in the UK import from Germany or the US duties ect ect

[JJUK]

I like this circuit Dave posted a couple of days ago, because a cap is used instead of a "good-dead battery", which is evidently problematical.

So I bought a couple of R-shack motors as specified, had a 4.9uF cap (400VAC) which may be too big? , and two 12V batteries (5A-h). Then I set up the circuit as drawn this afternoon. Two volt meters, one on each battery.

However, there seems to be something wrong with the circuit as drawn. I found that both motors spun, but ONLY battery B (on the right) dropped in voltage. Disconnecting battery A from the cap -- no change.

Pls look at the circuit again, attached. Dave - can you ask the sender to re-check his circuit drawing? I think it is wrong since (as drawn), there is a path from point 1 to point 7, both on Battery B, without going through the cap or battery A.
Or perhaps someone else can see how to "correct" the circuit? I tried a couple of things, no luck...

Agreed - I have tried this circuit and am getting the same results as PhysicsProf. In fact, you will find very little difference (if any) if you run a single 12V battery in series with the 2 motors! Could be the capacitor I'm using or the motors but I would like clarification before trying again. I have video of the whole test if anyone is interested. Does the polarity of the motors matter?

On a separate matter, I have managed to kill one of the 12V PC axial cooling fan motors that I was using for this test by accidently putting 24V rather than 12V across it. I suspect it is just a single component that has been damaged. Does anyone have any idea what that component might be and whether it can be fixed? I'd really like to get the motor running again as that would give me a pair for further experimentation.

JJUK

[JJUK]

So please … oh ever so please go and find that old (brushed) model motor and that knackered battery at the back of the drawer, beg or borrow a couple of other batteries … and try it

Well said Duncan, and for the past 7 days (pretty much full time) that's exactly what I've been doing. Every test and thought has been captured on video amounting to 75GB of raw footage. I've now got to go back and analyse the whole lot which will take some time I'm afraid as there must be between 10 and 12 hours worth.

With my setup I was never lucky enough to experience a true climbing voltage on batteries 1 and 2 so I will press on through the multitude of possible permutations and combinations. There were glimmers of hope though. I used both brushed and brushless motors in the tests. Unfortunately, starting with the grounded setup with a capacitor and then continuing with the grounded 3BGS setup that I tested yesterday, battery 3 has started to hold a charge. Not much at this point but I think it is having a significant adverse effect. I am now trying to kill it by freezing it whilst shorted and if that doesn't work I'll try more extreme measures. The break is also giving me an oportunity to give batteries 1 and 2 a thorough charge.

I will try to pull together a summary video from the raw footage. I could make it all available in the fullness of time should anyone consider it worthwhile.

JJUK

[Duncan]

Well done JJUK however (and I stand to be corrected) but as I read through the threads I at no time noted anyone reporting this effect unless they were using a brushed motor, I surmised that the very rapid switch action would be important and also possibly the inevitable spark. I doubt you'll miss this effect if your lucky enough to catch it, a bit like grabbing a tiger by the tail!just as the others have noted it just keeps throwing more at you

[JJUK]

...at no time noted anyone reporting this effect unless they were using a brushed motor...

No - but for the sake of complete experimentation I thought it was worth a try. I don't like to take anyone else's word for granted if at all possible.

I have a 12V DC electric starter motor for R/C aircraft so when the batteries are charged and I've killed this dead battery (if that's possible) then I'll give that a go. Just hope I can kill the battery again!

[Duncan]

Indeed try this circuit .. it started it all .. miss out the lights and switch just put load on your small motor by hand... In the case of my motor it was stationary for perhaps 20 mins .. then it started to move very slowly at first,
if you get to that stage ... start the camera and start loading the machine

Best wishes Duncan

[JJUK]

Indeed try this circuit .. it started it all .. miss out the lights and switch just put load on your small motor by hand... In the case of my motor it was stationary for perhaps 20 mins .. then it started to move very slowly at first

Yep - got all of that captured on video using the original circuit. Hours of it with various different components! I only tried the capacitor circuit to see whether there was an improvement. I wish I hadn't now as it lead me to introduce an earth connection on the original setup. It appears that this might have improved the capability of battery 3 to hold a charge.

My setup eventually reached a point of equilibrium whereby however long it was left, the motor did not turn without a load across the dead battery. Until yesterday when I connected the earth, I was able to connect the circuit and the motor would not turn whilst the voltage across batteries 1 and 2 was only very slightly greater than the voltage across battery 3. As soon as I connected 2x 12V 20W lamps in series across the dead battery the equlibrium was upset and the motor began to turn. At the same time there was a voltage drop across batteries 1 and 2 and battery 3.

When I've finished reviewing all the tests I hope that a coherent pattern will emerge that I can report. Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that on no occasion did I manage to see a voltage increase across batteries 1 and 2 whilst placing the motor under load.

[PhysicsProf]

Thanks for the comments and efforts, Duncan and JJUK!
We are agreed then:

Agreed - I have tried this circuit and am getting the same results as PhysicsProf. In fact, you will find very little difference (if any) if you run a single 12V battery in series with the 2 motors! Could be the capacitor I'm using or the motors but I would like clarification before trying again. ...

JJUK

I like the simplicity of the cap instead of a "good dead battery" LOL, but perhaps that's what we're stuck with? at least it worked at times!

But hopefully a clarification on the circuit with the cap and two motors will help us all out.

I truly appreciate the sense of comraderie as we grapple with this new-energy research. " Tesla " -- we need more clues!

(PS, I'm also working still on the Davey-bell system, see if you wish, Steven Jones replica: Pons & Fleischmann XS Heat not from fusion .
Also, I'm working on LaserSaber's latest JT-type circuit, with mods by Gadget and LynxSteam:
Joul Ringer CrossOver )

Happy Christmas season to you all!
Steven

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Video loading, back end cell reversal

3BG back end reversal - YouTube

This is a quick video for Matt and anyone else, as asked.

Sorry about quality, I am not a video maker, I am a scientific researcher of alternative energies, if I was a video maker I would probably be working for Paramount

Mike

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Youtube again

Sorry but youtube cut a minute off the video, o well you just missed the nicads returning to 5v when the circuit was switched off.

Mike

[Turion]

On the road

The guy who sent me that circuit is out of town until Sunday. Will get back to me then.

If you hook up the circuit for the first time and the motor starts, that "bad" battery will not work. Don't bother to try as you will get nothing. Follow the steps in post #1. My pulsed motor was working great when I left. When I get back I will do a really long run. One of my best bad batteries is one I killed by putting metal filings in three of the cells. And remember, switch wires on your motor to see which direction of rotation gives the best spikes. On that last video I posted I had 18 volt spikes one direction and 1200 volt spikes the other direction. It MAKES a difference guys. :-)

Dave

[Duncan]

Hope this helps JJUK

JJUK what folks call battery three seems to be key here, as far as I can tell this effect has never been duplicated with anything other that a/ a brushed motor and b/ a lead acid battery (water or gel)
Now I don't know about the other guy's JJUK but the term battery is not what I would or could use when I refer to the thing I had in position three. All it had in common with a battery is It looked a little like one! No not a battery a solid lump of whatever it is that lead acid batteries turn into when they should have been taken to the battery grave yard two years ago.
Soooo this lump that once was a battery I can't tell you much of the chemistry because I know little of the subject, I can tell you it could not light an LED or any sort of bulb and it certainly couldn't turn that little motor I was using.
I would hope you also noticed JJUK that this chemical enigma that once was a battery had a resistance measurement that exceeded the limit of my fluke in both directions.
that’s obviously a phenomenal resistance in a DC battery circuit. Indeed this is the circuit you saw me running on the video


as you no doubt noted the motor even attempted to start itself in this condition , even assuming this is just out of the limit of the meter and the resistance of that “lump” is just over 10 Meg ohm
I=V/R=24/10M = 2.4 ua
P=24 x2.4ua =57.6uw
not even enough to puff the dust off the top of a transistor. and that’s given the very best battery resistance . Given that state JJUK you saw the motor overcome inertia and self start . Of course with infinite impedance in circuit or even 10 Meg ohms it should be Impossible.
Of course once the motor starts to spin an AC component is introduced and the resistance is then correctly termed impedance and power becomes P=VIcos φ, (except of course its a high speed complex wave so that doesn't really apply either but you get the picture I'm sure)
So I hope you start to see why these guys are spending so much time researching and investigating lead acid Batteries, freezing them, leaving them on concrete floors, putting Iron filings in them, trying all ways to duplicate or re create the action , Its because as you saw when that impossible thing happens and that motor which should not have a bats chance in hell of turning starts.
You can apply load to that chemical mess that once was a battery and also to the motor shaft and the machine simply throws more and more energy out. As you have read from the other guys they have run inverters and charged batteries and powered motors for weeks. I haven’t been that far .. but I've seen enough to know its correct. I hope that helps with your investigation one other thing that becomes clear is if that motor starts of its own accord as soon as you connect the battery the effect we are all seeking will not be experienced! I know it seems like being at school with a big list of do's and don't but still its just what others have observed and I’ve seen, Its been a hard trail for these guys! and it need sorting
Best wishes and Duncan

[Turion]

I have landed in Arizona and will be here for the next few days, although access is limited to my phone while here.

I have recently been placing my motor between the neg on the bad battery and the negative of battery 2 (in the drawing Duncan posted). It doesn't seem to matter whether you split negatives or positives. You will get a better result with a pulse motor because there is more opportunity for spikes in the off time.

If some of you have a battery that is sitting at a higher voltage like 6-8 volts but is no good, you might try putting metal filings in the cells one at a time and testing. My motor would come on immediately with that battery, but after I killed one cell it took about two minutes to come on. After two cells were dead it took longer to come on. After three cells, even longer. And I got longer runs each time. It was a long process because I had to let the battery set with a load attached for a couple days every time I used it to revert back to a state where it would work. I ran out of metal shavings at that point and was going to collect them up whenever I ground metal using a magnet, and I have a container full now, so I need to go back to that experiment and that battery and see what happens.

[Turion]

If you have tried the setup and seen any success at all and have not posted here, please share. In fact, post even if you haven't seen any success. Maybe we can help. If you don't want to share in a public forum you can PM me or email me at dvd.bowling@gmail.com. I will share your story with the forum and leave your name out of it.
Dave

[Duncan]

for interest

I am not going to invest in these because I'm not sure it would be constructive .. perhaps as battery one and two something may be demonstrated. However after Mike posted on Maxwell ultra caps I went to have a look. As when I was at school I remember being told a one Farad capacitor was impossible and would need a plate area bigger that the globe I found this quite stunning
12V BoostPack
Now I wont bother to tell you what chance I have of seeing those at $6 each in the UK second hand or otherwise but if you happen to find these things at that price I should grab one or two!