3 Battery Generating System

[Farmhand]

Hello velacreations,

Welcome to the thread. I am sorry but you are making the same mistake many others have made about this thread. This thread is about trying to find out what is special about the "bad" battery and how to either be able to make a reliable bad battery or find a suitable substitute. This thread is not about whether this works or not. I have seen it with my own eyes and using my own equipment. So I know it works.

What do I mean when I say that? I mean I have run loads for hours and hours and either have seen my primary batteries not drop at all or seen them drop only a small amount for the amount of load they were running. When I have turned the system off I have seen the primary batteries come right back up to where they were before and in a couple of cases have seen them go even higher.

I have an old GE Electrac lawn and garden tractor which has six 6 volt deep cycle batteries. It is very similar to the golf cart you are describing. As you said when one of those batteries goes bad it effects the whole system. But what you are missing is the weak battery in your golf cart has nothing to do with the system we are talking about. Your weak battery is just a normal weak battery and not at all the same as the few we have found that give us the strange added power we are seeing in a properly running system.

I and anyone else that has seen this system work have gone through a lot of batteries before I found the right "bad" one. Just any old dead battery will not give the same results. And that is really what this thread is all about. What is it about the right "bad" battery that allows it to do what it does? And how do we keep it from recovering and turning into a good battery. Because this system is an excellent battery restoring system if nothing else.

By the way I am almost 67 years old and worked in industrial maintenance for 30 years before retiring. So I am pretty familiar with batteries and how they normally work. I hope this helps you understand where Matt and Dave are coming from. I have worked with both of them for the last few years on this and some other projects so I think I know them pretty well. As I said I have seen this effect with my own eyes so I know it is real. Please read very carefully Dave's first post as it describes exactly how to tell if you have the right "bad" battery. Without the right "bad" battery you will not see anything but your primary batteries dropping just like you would expect. After you find the right "bad" battery then very carefully adjust your motors and loads to get into the "zone" as we call it. If you do not have a lot of patience to get into the zone then you will not see anything special either.





Respectfully,
Carroll

Yes this system is a very good way to begin the rejuvenation of very badly
sulfated batteries, my own battery began to hold charge and so I changed to
a battery recovery program, hence I cannot add anything much here to help.
Considering the sheer number of weird things that lead acid batteries can do
nothing is ruled out by me.

There is another effect of lead acid batteries which I have seen myself and
had a battery which did it. I have suspicions about how I could recreate this
battery behavior. But I would need a SLA in poor condition to try it.

phantom empty - YouTube

Now bear with me please, Sucahyo attached the meter at the same time as
the load which meant the standing voltage was not shown. The battery I
actually had showed a standing voltage of 12.8v but when loaded the voltage
would drop to nearly what we see in Sucahyo's video, and the same behavior
afterward.. The battery could run a load, but if left for even 1 minute the
effect would begin to return.

Now here is the theory. if a battery like the one shown can be made to
behave like that but from a starting point of very little charge rather than full
like Sucahyo's battery is, it might work in this system.

My theory of how the battery got like that is that it dried out while fully
charged and became saturated with sulfate (i'm no chemist so this is pure
speculation), what I did was I added more sulfate in the form of magnesium
sulfate in a saturated solution. Which actually seemed to make the battery
worse or the effect more pronounced, and it did produce more power, but it
would not rejuvinate and I discarded it.

My bet would be to fully charge a nearly dry SLA then by removing the cover
plate and plugs add more saturated sulfate and maybe let it dry out some
more. If the battery did take on the traits of the one I had then draining it
would make almost impossible to charge and it would have charge
characteristics similar to the discharge characteristics of the battery in the
video. In other words it would do nothing for a while then it would allow some
current to flow and either charge or just raise the voltage or drop the voltage
or something funny.

This could explain why the SLA batteries work, because a dry SLA battery has
the glass mat holding the dry electrolyte to the plates.

Cheers

P.S. It's the 21-December 2012 here now and has been for over an hour
nothing has blown up and no huge fissure has appeared in the sky or anything
else catastrophic. So the hunt for new free energy must continue.
Best of luck to all.

..

[Matthew Jones]

I suspect the same thing in case of the 3bgs. And thats the road I am taking while to condition a battery that would not conduct. First I added water and a small amount of acid, I am going to run it for while that way so it gets some predictable behavior then I am going to slow cook it next to heat source to try to bake in the behavior.
As long as all the factors remain in the battery while drying, like internal impedance and Voltage level under run I think it will set the battery into perfect state. Just speculating now though. I still need to see a few more thing out of the battery before I'll feel its correct.

Matt

[Turion]

velacreations,

You have stated that you are working your way through this thread from the beginning, but you have made a glaring error that SHOULD have been resolved in the very first post I made, and COUNTLESS times after.

Your comparison of this setup to what is happening in a golf cart when one of the batteries goes bad shows you do not understand the construction of this circuit at all. Aside from the fact that you need the "right" kind of bad battery, all the batteries in the golf cart are wired in series and connected to the motor, are they not? Is the bad battery in your golf cart scenario REVERSED in the series and on the END of the series, or is it in the middle and connected normally in series. For the circuit to be a replication of what we have here, you would have to put the bad battery on the end of the series and reverse it, so that its positive is connected to the posititive of the battery next to it. This would leave the motor connected between the negatives of the first battery in the series and the bad battery.

But gee, you would know this if you had actually taken the time to read even the first post on the thread. It is obvious, at least to ME, that you have not done your homework on this system. You skipped to the last page of the book and want all the answers from the folks who actually read it. We're here to help, but give me a break man. You start off by saying you have doubts this will work because the circuit in your golf cart, which has NOTHING in common with this except parts, doesn't work. At least be honest with us and say you haven't read any of the thread.

Dave

[velacreations]

velacreations,

You have stated that you are working your way through this thread from the beginning, but you have made a glaring error that SHOULD have been resolved in the very first post I made, and COUNTLESS times after.

Your comparison of this setup to what is happening in a golf cart when one of the batteries goes bad shows you do not understand the construction of this circuit at all. Aside from the fact that you need the "right" kind of bad battery, all the batteries in the golf cart are wired in series and connected to the motor, are they not? Is the bad battery in your golf cart scenario REVERSED in the series and on the END of the series, or is it in the middle and connected normally in series. For the circuit to be a replication of what we have here, you would have to put the bad battery on the end of the series and reverse it, so that its positive is connected to the posititive of the battery next to it. This would leave the motor connected between the negatives of the first battery in the series and the bad battery.

But gee, you would know this if you had actually taken the time to read even the first post on the thread. It is obvious, at least to ME, that you have not done your homework on this system. You skipped to the last page of the book and want all the answers from the folks who actually read it. We're here to help, but give me a break man. You start off by saying you have doubts this will work because the circuit in your golf cart, which has NOTHING in common with this except parts, doesn't work. At least be honest with us and say you haven't read any of the thread.

Dave

I am currently on page 7, working my way through, taking notes, Dave.

I never said the circuit was exactly the same, but you do have a situation where we regularly have bad batteries connected to good batteries, and no one has reported anything like the effect you describe. It seems like at some point, with the millions of golf carts in operation over decades of use, something like this would have been observed.

But whatever, I will continue reading through and see if anything has been measured. I am hoping to find someone actually trying to measure power usage here to try and pinpoint the effect, but so far, nothing along those lines. Just people shooting in the dark.

[velacreations]

double post

[Turion]

As far as power usage measurements go, I hooked up an inverter to battery 3, a killowatt meter to the inverter, and ran AC loads almost continuously for seven days. This was measurable watts of power, and it far, far, far, far exceeded the output of two batteries, which remained at full charge. After the holidays I could do that again and post the results here, but what good would that do? I could be faking those results, and there is no way to show days worth of video of electrical appliances running, so you are just taking my word for the results.

The only way you are ever going to believe what we have here is to build it with your own eyes. Post #1 has the process for determining whether or not the bad battery you have is a workable battery. If you have that, you should be able to come up with a DC motor and a couple good batteries. Radio Shack sells DC motors for a couple bucks.

If I were you, I wouldn't believe anything until I saw it for myself. I promise you THIS is worth your time.

Dave

[velacreations]

ok, I am looking for a suitable bad battery. I have several that might be good candidates, all SLA, but most of them are int he 9AH range. I will post my results as soon as I am able.

I have a lot of DC motors of varying size and power. I also have numerous meters that I will place throughout the system to see what is going on.

[Matthew Jones]

I finally understand what your saying about the golf cart thing. But it is different with a golf cart you have Serial Loop with the load between a hot and ground. With this you have a serial primary high voltage, paralleled to a low voltage (Or dead battery) with the motor running on the potential difference between the 2.

So there would be no way for anybody to stumble up on this unless for some reason they strung the batteries wrong and had dead battery. And who knows they may still be bragging about how long a battery lasted today.

Follow me?

Most people can't even follow a potential based system. They insist a ground in necessary, but its not. In fact the surest way to efficiency is to raise and isolate the potential after the source and wire between the high potential and the source to cause a recirculation of the power.

Matt

[Matthew Jones]

So the training continues

I ran my little setup again tonight, unfortunately no camera at the moment, but the OK. I did 12 hour run. I decided at about 6 hours into it to put the battery next the fire. At got the battery warmed up around 160 degrees for 6 hours and the moisture came out of it pretty good. I'll check the fiberglass on the cells again tomorrow but the moisture was at about 8%. Thats down from 12%.

The primaries batteries actually started charging this time, I have done nothing to them since the film I made they were still at 36.88 volt this morning. At the end of the run when shutting off the system they popped up to 36.8 and slowly were climbing up and over 36.88. How much they have come up over the last 30 minutes I do not know, but I am sure its higher they take about 3 hours to settle back out.

Tomorrow or Saturday, if were all still here (HaHaHa...) I'm going to start to load down the motor and start running loads via an inverter off the dead battery. I believe it will train right into what I need it to be.

Dave is also going to start training a battery under the same routine and if anybody else is interested you just need to find an AGM battery that won't conduct. That means when you hook the system up the dead battery comes up at or about primary battery voltage and sticks. If it drops its not what we are looking for training but may work on its own so don't give it up.

I figure by the weekend after next I should be able to start with some pretty big runs.
So I went got another scope with good bit of memory and some current probes so I can track the system thoroughly and record it all. I'll come up with the some to chart everything we'll see what kinda file formats we have.

I also function gen so I can start testing some of Duncan's ideas.

I don't know who is out there but it would be nice to here from ya if your making any progress or if your seriously wanting to get into this I am more than willing to get you going.

Cheers
Matt

[Farmhand]

Transmutation

What about transmutation of the elements within the battery, it would be an
extra bonus if after using a working 3BGS for some time and it quit working
one decided to open up the battery to discover the lead had turned to gold.

But seriously is there any tips to researching the transmutation aspect, is it
completely impossible or could there be some kind of energy from matter effect ?

Anyone got any thoughts on that ? Maybe some input from a closet chemist or physicist.

I need more theories to ponder.

..

[velacreations]

sounds good, Matt. Did you happen to measure the load during the 12 hour run?

I am still way back on the thread, but someone mentioned a bank of bad batteries (Ossie Callahan, I think?) to prevent batt 3 from charging, so that might be a viable way for some of us to get a suitable batt 3. Just take a bunch of bad batteries, wired in parallel with each other as a big bank, and then wire that bank into the system as it were a giant batt 3 that wouldn't be resurrected by the process.

Has that been tried (sorry, still behind on the thread)?

[velacreations]

extra bonus if after using a working 3BGS for some time and it quit working one decided to open up the battery to discover the lead had turned to gold.

you've sold me, I'm hooking up my system RIGHT NOW!

[Turion]

Had the same idea about the mess of bad batteries in parallel as in the Ossie Callahan idea, which I have read by the way. Diidn't work. Primaries lost voltage

[Matthew Jones]

What about transmutation of the elements within the battery, it would be an
extra bonus if after using a working 3BGS for some time and it quit working
one decided to open up the battery to discover the lead had turned to gold.

But seriously is there any tips to researching the transmutation aspect, is it
completely impossible or could there be some kind of energy from matter effect ?

Anyone got any thoughts on that ? Maybe some input from a closet chemist or physicist.

I need more theories to ponder.

..

I have no thoughts on that but I'll hope and pray your on to something.

sounds good, Matt. Did you happen to measure the load during the 12 hour run?

Its a .5 amp load on the meter, but its pulsed so I need a scope with an amp probe,which I got coming.

I know from running a test in the beginning the motors brings the batteries down about .04 volt per hour of run. Thats measuring before and after rested.
I did a baseline.
Not to loose anything from 12 hours is making me real happy. The batteries are sitting 12.88 right now. They went up above and came back down.

One thing I noticed also is the primary batteries were clean and free from any moisture around the caps. After this run today the batts on the ground side have moisture leaking from the caps. Its real obvious because of the dust. Not sure why that would happen running loads. Unless we are getting charging on the ground side while discharging on the positive side. Thats been my theory for some time now. The dead battery flips the polarity of the current.

We'll know for sure soon enough.

Matt

[velacreations]

interesting about the moisture on the batteries. That would definitely indicate charging, IMO. Of course, there might be another explanation, but that's the most obvious.