3 Battery Generating System

[Johnytest]

One thing to consider is the current. The voltage could go up or stay the same but the current maybe draining. With this setup the motor will not able to recharge the batteries. There maybe external energy involve here ?

[Joit]

One thing to consider is the current. The voltage could go up or stay the same but the current maybe draining. With this setup the motor will not able to recharge the batteries. There maybe external energy involve here ?

No, not really. You have a path for Energy between 2 kind of Batteries, once 2x 12 V parallel, and one bad Batterie. Between the 24 V Potential from the both run batteries you got few things. Once capacitance in the Motor coils, capacitance in the bad batterie. Resistance at the Motor coils and also at the bad batterie and also at the load between the bad batterie.
It more looks like a push back effect from the Motor with the spikes at the coils and the bad batterie, when the resistance is higher from the feedback as the run batteries do/can provide. And keep in mind, you dont have only physical resistance but also magnetical resistance (with latency) when energy flows through the circuit.

[Joit]

One thing to consider is the current.

Current was considered too, even when it does not keep the complete current at the Source, but stay on a lower level you can still say you have gain.
Also there was a rising in Voltage from the source batteries, what does not work usually, when you simple drain a Battery in any way.

[Turion]

Even with a bad battery in the 3rd position that DOESN'T WORK, there is a gain in this setup. It's easy to see. Put a scope between the ground on one of the primaries and measure voltage on BOTH sides of the motor. It will be a voltage increase because of the collapsing field in the motor. If you have an amp meter you can do the same kind of test and while there is little or no gain, there is no loss either.

The problem is, this voltage is going into the bad battery and depleting the good batteries, but it is STILL AN INCREASE. With the "right" bad battery the motor runs and the voltage goes up and battery 3 to 12 volts, holds, and the primaries do NOT drain, and you can run 12 volt loads off battery 3 for "free"

You also get the mechanical work of the motor for "free" , as long as the loads are balanced with each other (see post #1)

Dave

[Guruji]

Even with a bad battery in the 3rd position that DOESN'T WORK, there is a gain in this setup. It's easy to see. Put a scope between the ground on one of the primaries and measure voltage on BOTH sides of the motor. It will be a voltage increase because of the collapsing field in the motor. If you have an amp meter you can do the same kind of test and while there is little or no gain, there is no loss either.

The problem is, this voltage is going into the bad battery and depleting the good batteries, but it is STILL AN INCREASE. With the "right" bad battery the motor runs and the voltage goes up and battery 3 to 12 volts, holds, and the primaries do NOT drain, and you can run 12 volt loads off battery 3 for "free"

You also get the mechanical work of the motor for "free" , as long as the loads are balanced with each other (see post #1)

Dave

Battery 1 and 2 should be good you said. You ever tried with not that good batteries 1and 2? Do they get charged after this process?

[Turion]

I have not tried it with three bad batteries, but that's an interesting idea. The issue is, you have to have a voltage differential between the two motors in the primary stack vs the bad battery to get the motor to run, although a small 3 volt Radio shack motor might run on pretty low voltage and as long as it is brushed DC it should work. I will see if I can dig one up and give it a try. I know I have some small Radio Shack motors lying around somewhere, but they may all be 12 volt.

Haven't gotten down to my basement yet today to do anything, and may not. Too many chores on my "honey do" list. But knocking those out fairly rapidly so next week I should be free and clear to work on this stuff all week, and I have quite a slate of things I've told people I would give a try. I have my setup running right now. It is ALWAYS running while I try to kill a battery, so it runs about 10 hours a day, but then I have to charge the primaries since I don't have a working "bad" battery right now. So I'm down there for a few minutes in the morning to start it up and record voltages, and then a few minutes in the evening to record again, then once before bedtime after batteries have rested for two hours. Then I put them on the chargers over night, pull them off at 4:00 AM when the alarm goes off for my wife to get up, and let them rest until I get up at 7:00 and start all over again. You do that enough times, running the same load for the same amount of time, day after day, letting it rest for the same amount of time, recording all the voltages, and you become pretty familiar with what you can expect out of these batteries. So when you start to get unusual readings, you are pretty aware of it. I don't know HOW many cycles I have gone through with these same three batteries, but my bad battery isn't bad enough yet. The top is off and once in a while I blow hot air into it from an electric heater to dry it out, but it still works like I DON'T want it to.

Dave

[Turion]

A BRAND NEW "bad" battery that has NEVER BEEN used, is sitting at 8 volts, and is working in the 3rd position and the primaries are going UP in voltage even though the batteries are under load. 12 volt load at .5 amps, plus the 12 volt pulse motor is running.


3BGS. Good "Bad" Battery - YouTube

[penno64]

Hi Dave

Congrats on getting your hands on a good "bad" battery.

I too, have finally scored a couple that behave exactly as you say.

These were from a ups that had somehow over charged them.

The start up voltage across B3, climbs to 22 or so, then slowly drops and the
motor starts.

What do recommend to stop these two from reviving?

Wait till you see how mangled these two SLABS are.

Trying to get a video uploaded.

Cheers, Penno

[Turion]

penno64,
The only thing I can recommend is to keep a load on them AT ALL TIMES, and not to do runs that are too long. 30 to 45 minutes max, then drain them and start over. That's what I have done in the past, and it has allowed the bad battery to work for days or even a couple weeks. That may be all WRONG! Maybe what I should have done was put so big a load on battery 3 there was NO WAY it could possibly charge up, and then run the heck out of it with a big balanced load on the motor. Or put a resistor in line with battery 3 so it is harder to charge, and a cap with NO resistor in parallel, so the cap gets all the charge , and then connect those huge loads to the cap. I guess what I'm saying here is we just don't KNOW. That's what's so frustrating about this and why we need hundreds of folks trying to find working bad batteries instead of just a handful. I've just wasted several weeks trying to create one with no luck and stumble over one that has been sitting on my bench the whole time. We can't keep depending on LUCK. Some day we have to start depending on science.

I am going to do EVERYTHING I can to analyze this battery before I run ANY more experiments with it to prove this system works. It is more important to me that we figure out WHY a brand NEW battery will work in the setup than it is to prove to naysayers that the setup is for real.

Once I have done that, I will submit whatever evidence the want to prove this thing works.

Dave

By the way, after resting overnight, one battery was up 1/100 of a volt after running for several hours yesterday, and the other was up 5/100 of a volt. Not dramatic increases, but both motors ran for free all that time, and I did NOTHING to balance loads like I should have. It was working so why try and fix it.

[shylo]

Battery Readings

Hi folks,
The one thing I've noticed about voltage readings , although a battery will bounce back to its' previous reading , it dosen't have the same capacity...
You have to watch the level it draws the battery down to.
Too far , it dies
Not far enough ,it dosen't work.
You need to connect a transformer to catch the spike at the brushes
Still experimenting , but Am wondering about fluff voltage .
Why can fluff do no work,but throw charge into caps??
Is'nt charged caps stored energy?
shylo

[Turion]

Shylo,
You are right, you have to measure the capacitance to make sure it isn't going down and it isn't just a "fluff" charge on the batteries.

Dave

[wantomake]

first time trying this

Hey everyone,

Please don't let this subject die like other threads have.

I bought a bad battery for #3 at local scarp company and had two other lead acid batteries already. Hooked the system together with a UFO motor(a) across #3 and a pm one(b) across whole system as you posted.

I see what you mean by "balancing" the two. I had to put a piece of metal with two screws across motor(b) to slow it and "balance" the two motors.
But the primary batteries still drain down, very slowly but still they do. The purpose of this is to use the two motors and not drain the primaries right?

The question I have is: I have the two primary batteries and one is a alum restored battery, so would that be why it is not holding the charge? Or mixing the two batteries as primaries. One is alum, the other is lead acid.

The bad battery only had a 3.7 volt charge on it at purchase. With a 12vdc light bulb it drops quickly to 0 volts.

When I balance the system, I don't let the voltage on #3 get above 8 volts and the voltage on whole system drops .01 every one or two minutes.

Well hope this goes on. I like what you've found, there must be more to this.

thanks and keep up the experimenting,
wantomake

[citfta]

Hi wantomake,

I haven't tried any alum batteries with this system so I can't make any useful comments about that. However Turion has been working with this system for years and he has said several times it seems to work best with all 3 batteries of the same type and size. He also has posted in this thread and I have proven to myself that only a very few dead batteries will give the result we are looking for. Most people seem to think they can use any dead battery and it will work. It will NOT work with just any dead battery. As we have explained several times in this thread the main purpose of the thread is to try and find out why some batteries work and most do not. The other purpose is to figure out what it is that makes the ones that work actually work like they do. You just need to keep trying different dead batteries until you find one that works. You may try 10 or more and still not find one that does what we want it to. One of the reasons this thread is quiet right now is several of us have run out of batteries that give the effect and so we are looking for ones that do. You need to go back and read the first post very carefully so you can recognize when you get a good candidate for the #3 battery.

Respectfully,
Carroll

[wantomake]

Quick reply

Hi wantomake,

I haven't tried any alum batteries with this system so I can't make any useful comments about that. However Turion has been working with this system for years and he has said several times it seems to work best with all 3 batteries of the same type and size. He also has posted in this thread and I have proven to myself that only a very few dead batteries will give the result we are looking for. Most people seem to think they can use any dead battery and it will work. It will NOT work with just any dead battery. As we have explained several times in this thread the main purpose of the thread is to try and find out why some batteries work and most do not. The other purpose is to figure out what it is that makes the ones that work actually work like they do. You just need to keep trying different dead batteries until you find one that works. You may try 10 or more and still not find one that does what we want it to. One of the reasons this thread is quiet right now is several of us have run out of batteries that give the effect and so we are looking for ones that do. You need to go back and read the first post very carefully so you can recognize when you get a good candidate for the #3 battery.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Thanks, citfta

I did read through most of the thread and saw that point.

Yes I do have a lot of batteries to try. The scrape yard has a pile of them. So it will take some time. Most of my batteries are marine type and like I posted some alum restored types. Just wanted to say thanks and we'll keep hunting for the perfect "bad battery".

Good hunting,
wantomake

[shylo]

The dead battery

I've tried many exp's ,I even used a battery that froze ,pushed the positive post up out of the casing itself
That bat still takes a charge , but at about 25% of it's capacity...just think of all the free storage out there
shylo