3 Battery Generating System

[Duncan]

like so

yeah sure pretty much step by step Dave .. like so .. right click the picture, one of the options is “save image location” .. copy it to your clip board
go back to post one edit > advanced edit you can now alter it as you wish up at the top with the rest of the icons is a thing looks like a post card … click it … a box requiring the location of the picture will appear .. clear anything out that may be there and paste the picture location in
where ever you left the curser blinking on your post there the picture will appear (perhaps)

[Turion]

Skeptic,
It is going to take a few days to get you the results of this testing. It as not as easy as people would think.

I am discharging the primaries by running them for thirty minutes and letting them rest for three hours, since this is the SAME time frame I want to run the 3BGS setup and I don't want people coming back and saying: "well, the batteries had time to recover when you ran the 3BGS test, so blah, blah, blah."

And you can only do so many of those runs in a day before you run out of day, and then the batteries are resting over night. I want everything to be exactly the same between the two runs, so it is going to take a while.

These batteries are rated 285CA and the motor is 24 volt 14A. So this isn't a test you can run in an afternoon. It also means I am tethered to the house, as the longest I can leave during the day is 2 hours. That's barely time to make a run to Lowes for supplies for other projects I am working on at the same time.

I know when most people come to this thread they read the first couple posts to see what is going on and then jump to the end to see if there have been any successful replications. The interesting thing about this is that anyone who tries it will see success if they ONLY MAKE SHORT RUNS and don't give the bad battery a chance to start that charging process. Then wait and run it again. It takes a LOT of time doing this to prove to yourself that there is something here, but when weeks go by and you have used far more energy (any way you want to measure it) than the primaries contained, you have to begin to wonder if there isn't something to all this. And the farther you get beyond THAT point and it is still working, the more convinced you become that this is for real.

Which is why I say don't take our word for it. Build it yourself and you will see. It is NOT that expensive to build. And there is no way to video that whole process and show folks what is happening. It would just take too many hours of video that basically show nothing but a motor running.

Dave

[erfinder]

In the video electric motor secrets, diagrams were used to demonstrate how the generator action in a motor (CEMF) opposes the applied EMF of the supply....Look at your battery 3.....now look at the EMF(s) (two types of induction....) generated by the motor....hmmm

[OrionLightShip]

IMHO It is impedance matching that’s causing the “bad battery” and the system to drop out of resonance after all its changing from infinity impedance to almost nothing.

I still think that looking at a working system with a spectrum analyzer would tell quite the story, there would be obvious harmonics lurking. I think the endless search for the perfect battery is not going to get to the answer at all. It's just an addiction....come on admit it! You just need one more fix.

Looking at the "bad" battery with an antenna analyzer (if you could find a way to not cook the analyzer) would be good as well. Both combined could possibly show the way to a battery free understanding (back to the coax reflector theory).
Something (ultra short impulses) is teasing the aether. Fix it Duncan!

Problem: Those things are expensive! Maybe we could lease them? I would kick in for that. Problem with that is having them with you when you find a good working third battery.

[Skeptic]

citfa - Thanks for the clarification (and patience). There sure is a lot going on in the 3BGS.

Duncan - Thanks. I agree that there is something important going on here and needs further investigation. With this much repeatability (and hard work), there is no doubt in my mind that there is something worth while going on here and the experimenters are reporting exactly what they are observing. While at this point in time I cannot participate in building a 3GBS, I hope to do so in the future while following what is going on. I am so grateful that Dave is willing to humor me in doing the suggested experiments (Thanks Dave!).

[OrionLightShip]

While at this point in time I cannot participate in building a 3GBS, I hope to do so in the future while following what is going on. I am so grateful that Dave is willing to humor me in doing the suggested experiments (Thanks Dave!).

I have a working pulse motor courtesy of Matt's design you can have on the cheap if you ever want to jump into this.

Sad day here....just got news my wife's mother died today.

[Turion]

Orion,

Sorry to hear about your mother in law. NOTHING worse than losing family. I know there is nothing we can do to help, but our thoughts are with you.

I would buy a spectrum analyzer TODAY if I knew enough about them to buy the correct one and had a realistic expectation that I could get some help figuring out how to use it to analyze this thing.

Handheld & USB Spectrum Analyzer, RF Analyzer, EMF Tester, H and E field measurement, Outdoor Spectrum Analyser 1Hz to 9,4GHz** **

There are many places to get one, but these seem to be more reasonably priced than most. Just don't know enough about them to know if they will get the job done.

Dave

[OrionLightShip]

I would buy a spectrum analyzer TODAY if I knew enough about them to buy the correct one and had a realistic expectation that I could get some help figuring out how to use it to analyze this thing.

Yes, there in lies the rub. I would never advise buying one for just this one purpose. The low end units probably don't reach far enough in frequency.

Of course the slow turning motor and all the sparking puts a lot of interference (as can be heard on a radio) which is broadband noise. The "spike" we know and love may be a really high frequency or it may not even show up as a discrete frequency; we don't really know what it is, mostly we know what it is not!
The analyzer works just like an oscilloscope but it scans the frequency domain instead of the time domain. So you can look at all frequencies and their bandwidths at the same time..

The good broadband units are horribly expensive and for that reason, it is unlikely that someone having one would loan it. It is possible to lease one from some companies I would think. It would have full instructions and voltage limits on the probe just like an oscilloscope. You can also connect a small antenna as a probe as well. Anyways, just a thought for the future, perhaps someone will read this some day and pop up with one.

The antenna analyzer sends a pulse down a wire and measures the reflected pulses. It uses a fast accurate timer to calculate the resonant frequency. Even putting two pieces of coax together will show up as a partial reflected wave. Might work on a heavily sulfated battery if you used dc blocking capacitors to protect it. You need a really good experienced ham operator to help on this project. Hey, you live in Northern CA right? Guess who else does too.

[Duncan]

bits and pieces

Oh Kerry family members dyeing our thoughts are with you I'm sure. I seem to be attending all to many funerals myself lately a sign of my times I guess.
I'm afraid a spectrum analyser associated equipment,and the odds of connecting it without damage our all out of my range . As is a decent Lab to operate in. some guys on forum have such gear I here think of MJN or perhaps Dr Stiffer. But of course you all know the odds of getting and then keeping a 3BGS working !
I have already ordered parts to try a simple build without the motor Kerry. In fact I haven’t used a motor in the same sense as everyone else anyway.
Anyway if someone with a doctorate in Chemistry tells me the never ending fight for the “perfect bad battery” is probably fruitless then my chances of finding El Dorado that way are a big Fat zero.
I cant even make a cake with out making a balls of it.
Not surprisingly Kerry we are in agreement regarding harmonics & overtones, which of course also adds up to Impedance. Regarding that impedance question Kerry it is an adaptation of Tesla's work that comes to mind just at the moment, with this next demonstration and a little thought I'm sure you'll be able to see how the coils of Don L Smiths machine are supposed to work.
The heart of Clemente Figuera's machine and probably the resolve of this one. First be so kind as to watch this video which is specifically a rebuild of Tesla's impedance series resonance “coil matching” which is the key element , Igor goes on to replace the spark gap (or in our case the motor) with a present day oscillator circuit. Actually a Royer or Meissner which I mentioned earlier. As you know Kerry once I find someone who is thinking and acting alike I tend to investigate in the case of Igor there were some 230 odd video's to get through the salient one's are here
TROS vs SGG -- "alternative lighting" - YouTube
as you see the onerous job of impedance matching is partially taken care of by the circuitry although as Igor emphasises the full frequency range is lost. I for one don't care matching those coils to Ľ wave series resonance with a spark is a bloody nightmare. Its hard enough with a DC motor isn't it boys and girls? Just focusing on the Royer oscillator for a short while, It is also key to the induction hotplate where it resonates automatically with Iron pots and pans. Like Igor’s project
Its at the heart of this machine.
The GEGENE : a Great Efficiency GENErator with a Tesla bifilar coil...
Just as we have been blowing up Inverters with the 3BGS so Igor kept blowing his bridge rectifiers
given the huge range of harmonics and overtones we envisage here Kerry its hardly surprising
Igor however found an answer .. its here
IT (induction transformer) - "rectifier" - YouTube
I have it mind Kerry that power has nothing to do with the third battery action only resonance
in other words to keep it simple we need to relate to the bad battery regarding frequency whilst presenting an almost infinite impedance to the rest of the circuit. But of course staying in touch with it. We are trying to match infinity(the pulse) to the infinitesimal (the time of the pulse) with an infinate frequency spectrum.

There is no absolute scale of size in the Universe, for it is boundless towards the great and also boundless towards the small . Oliver Heaviside.

Here I think along the lines of a Balun or Magnetic amplifier I have actually been trying to buy a pretty big ferrite toroid to try but I'm not having much luck finding one here. I may try ferrite rods.
It seems odd to be contemplating a 3BGS perhaps with no batteries .. or motor for that matter still needs must

[Turion]

OrionLightShip,

I do indeed live in Northern California....San Jose. But I have property even farther north in Sutter Creek (building a retirement place off the grid) which is North East of Stockton, so I am on the road between the two a lot. It's a pain having tools in both places because every time I turn around, the one I need is at the other property, so I am duplicating lots and lots of tools.

If you are close, you will have to stop by sometime and laugh at my basement shop, which is barely big enough for me to stand up and the two dogs to lie down (I kid you NOT!)

I would not have a problem laying out the money for a spectrum analyzer, even an expensive one, if it was sure to cover the range we need. It's only money, and life is too short not to take the chance we might come up with the solution to this.

I've been saving up to make a big run at the Casino where I will have a bankroll large enough to do them some serious damage, or walk out a crybaby, but it takes time to do that, since I am using THEIR money to save up for that bankroll, and I keep spending too much of my winnings. But if I need to spend that bankroll on a spectrum analyzer, the Casino can wait. I'm sure they'll still be there in six months.

Skeptic,
The two primary batteries powered the motor for a combined 25 hours and 31 minutes. At which time, the motor came to a complete stop. They are charging at the moment and in the morning I will begin a run with the 3BGS. I may have to do SEVERAL start ups until I find a battery that is going to work for a while, but I will. And then the "short run, rest" process will begin all over again. I am staying here this weekend so that I can make sure to do runs that mimic exactly what I did with the primary batteries, including the resting over night. So we shall see. As I said,this is going to take a few days to complete, so hang in there.

Dave

[OrionLightShip]

Turion, sorry; I was referring to Dollard as an experienced ham operator that lives in Northern CA, but he probably wouldn't be interested in this anyway. I spent over a year in San Jose (cupertino) and three months in Valejo, three months in San Diego, and six months in Newport Beach, three years in Oregon, and three years in WA. Now I am in the boonies of North Carolina.

Duncan, interesting links, I will have to watch some more of Igor's videos as well....not sure what he is doing but it looks interesting. Anything that looks like VAR to VA conversion has my attention. Even if it is not that, I have a serious need and use for power distribution across my acreage here. Oh, and making a correction, I have only a B.S. not a Doctorate.

In a few days, I am going to reopen discussion on my Tesla's Stinging Impulse Rays as I have been doing a lot of reading and research. I think I can tie a few things together regarding several techs including 3BGS.

First I have to get my wife past the immediate situation. If that isn't bad enough, I took a machete to some Virginia Creeper vines, not having a clue that I would be sensitive and developed horrible rashes like poison ivy on my forehead, ear, eyelid area, and inner thighs. Cortisone, Calamine, and Benadryl are my constant companions. Let's top that off with finding yesterday when I went to mow my lawn, that my thieving hillbilly neighbors snuck into my backyard and stole my almost full seven gallon gas container. Ah well, everything happens for a reason I suppose.

Security cameras just became a priority.

[Turion]

Duncan,
If I am not mistaken, Luther Goodman got some big ferrite toroids. He might have a source for those for you. I will check with him.

Dave

[tachyoncatcher]

Complex, No

Randy. Isn't it possible that the 3 battery system has much more complexity than a pulse charger? There are obviously complex interactions going on here

A motor and a couple batteries? Not too complex. The interactions? Maybe it IS simple, but we are looking at the wrong things. The opinion I was referring to was that of my own.

errfinder: EMF? ElectroMotive or ElectroMagnetic, they are used interchangeably, but they are not the same. I prefer to study the later's interaction. Sorry Duncan, I think you are on the right track, but with the wrong force.

Randy

[erfinder]

A motor and a couple batteries? Not too complex. The interactions? Maybe it IS simple, but we are looking at the wrong things. The opinion I was referring to was that of my own.

errfinder: EMF? ElectroMotive or ElectroMagnetic, they are used interchangeably, but they are not the same. I prefer to study the later's interaction. Sorry Duncan, I think you are on the right track, but with the wrong force.

Randy

Electromotive.....

We have 4.....do you see them....do you see how and when they are interacting...

Regards

[wsxian2]

2nd battery try

The battery that I thought would be a "Bad" battery did not start the motor even after it was left hooked up to the system for a day and a half. But now this battery which was at 8.2 volts is sitting at about 11.4, so it has changed to a good battery (without the motor running).

So I hooked up another battery I got out of a bad UPS (I think the original voltage was about 6 volts -but I really don't remember) and no turn of the motor. Left it hooked to the system and came back later (maybe 1-2 hours) and the motor was turning without a load (with not much torque), so I thought this would be a "Bad" battery. I was able to run another motor off the the battery (with good torque) but only did it for a short while. Unhooked the battery and checked the voltage and found it about 12 volts so this battery is now good (will test it later under load to verify if just surface charge).
I have two more batteries to check. So I am recharging the primaries and will try tomorrow.
One is sitting at about 4 volts and the other at -0.2 volts (don't ask me how it can have negative voltage!).
So just moving forward. Again from the far west.

Zits (teen comic) had a great comic today. Check this out
July 16, 2013 | Zits (Can only link due to copyright)
The teen boy has a simple on off switch and the teen girl has levers, knobs and dials galore. It made me laugh and made me think of our situation with "Free Energy."
Regular energy is a simple switch but what we are trying to do is tune in with the right levers thrown in the right sequence.....

Resonance as other have stated seems to be the key. But what is resonating?
If it is the plates in their crystalline state, might we be able to use a sound device to attach to the battery and vibrate the case (and hence the plates) and see if any of the frequencies (harmonics?) causes an increase in the output? Eric Dollard (ED) mentioned something like this in one of his videos showing a vibrating device he used. The Dollard Mobile + Flux Capacitor - YouTube

Another thought – which relates to the attached JPEG file. I have been looking at the 3BG system and Tesla's patent # 685958 and a diagram of a Joule Thief circuit – all of which I have placed on or in the JPEG. From the looks of things, I would say that the circuits are similar. Power (plate or battery) being switched (motor, rotating switch, transistor) with a capacitor being discharged through a transformer to drive a load.
Does this mean that in the 3BG system the battery acts as both the capacitor and the transformer, just the transformer or just the capacitor? I think that someone has tried a capacitor in lieu of the “Bad” battery but to no avail.

Just some thoughts when staying up too late. Time to go to bed.