3 Battery Generating System

[tachyoncatcher]

Great!

Hi All, still early in testing ,but by rotating the batteries , the motor seems to run for free.
I'm just using 3 good batteries, no dead ones, just hook it up as per the Original schematic ,except put a good battery in place of the dead bat.
Then rotate when the primaries drop 2 tenths of a volt.
Going to try to build a switch , so I don't have to change connections manually. I've got a few ideas', but am sure it could be done electronically.
It just has to advance 2 positions with each pulse, but how fast or slow needs to be determined.
After ~ 10 hours of my motor running ,the batteries are actually a couple hundredths of voltage higher, no loads just the motor.
artv

Hi Artv,
Yeah, the switching could be handled easily, electronically. Which motor are you using with your setup? Do you mind telling?
Randy

[shylo]

motor

Hi Randy, It's a motor I wound ,16 pole , 4 PMs ,I wound 8 pole faces (every other one) with a bi-filar winding, but wound the bi-filar counter clockwise to each other (on the same pole). Then added collector brushes which I feed through a pancake coil.
But I need to do identical runs without the pancake to see if it makes a difference.
Just wish I had more time.
artv

[tachyoncatcher]

I've been testing with bifilar (unlitzed) winding lately(last video). I can relate to the wish for more time. I too wound it single pole, alternating direction. But, I wound each coils side by side. I used 12 poles. Collector brushes? Can't picture that. A photo would be terrific.
Randy

[citfta]

Battery swapper

Shylo,

go back and look at post 2195. I posted there a battery swapping circuit. You need 3 double pole double throw relays. Just wire them like the schematic. You also need a way to control the relays. I use a picaxe micro controller so I can set my timing anyway I want it just by changing the program. I use the picaxe to control three 2n3055 transistors and they in turn control the relays. You need to make sure you have the relays pulsing before you turn on your motor or you will have 36 volts going to your motor. I am using an on time of 10 seconds for each relay and I am using it right now to condition my batteries for use later with a real load. This circuit seems to be doing a good job of removing the sulfation and improving the capacity of the batteries. I am running a pulse motor with no load at this time. If you need any more info just ask and I will try to help.

Later, Carroll

[Matthew Jones]

Shylo

That circuit is pretty much Bedini 101, See The Tesla Switch.
The very best results come when you allow the circuit to rest a while between runs. You can also add a forth battery that rests. So as you circulate the batteries one is resting, 2 are discharging and one is charging.

The simplest switching circuit you can build uses a mechanical latching relay. You could use 2, maybe 3 of theseLatching relaysfor up to 8 amp of current. They are simple and cheap too. All you need is a couple of push buttons to switch positions.

Of course you could use Fets or transistors, and an IC but your gonna spend a few dollars on all that. I KNOW because I have...Spent the money and built that circuit that is. And its not all that easy either.

I have a board in the garage I built with relays back in the day if you want the schematic let me know I'll dig it out.

Cheers
Matt

It was late I missed Carroll post.

[shylo]

Hi Randy, here's a pic of the motor, the collector brushes were shown in another thread ,Lockridge I think?

Carroll, thanks for the reply, Am I correct in assuming that your circuit pulses the motor with 36 volts ,then reverses polarity, and pulses again?
That's not what I need to do. I'll attach a pic to explain.

Hi Matt, I'm no electronics guy, but would be interested in your switch.

Thanks for your time folks.
artv

[citfta]

No pulsing

Hi shylo,

No I am not pulsing the relays. What that circuit does is to reverse the polarity of the batteries one at a time. When a relay is not energized the battery is connected in series with the other ones. So if none of them were energized you would have 36 volts going to your motor and none of the batteries would be getting charged. We want one of them to be energized at all times. When one of the relays is energized the battery connected to that relay is now connected in reverse polarity to the other two so it is getting charged just like with the original 3 battery Tesla Switch just like Matt said. After the ten seconds I have programmed the controller for then the first relay is turned off and the second one is turned on. This then gives the second battery time to charge and the first one is now helping the last one to do the charging. And then of course the last relay will turn on in its turn and charge the last battery. Your programming needs to be written so that as soon as one relay drops out the next one picks up. This is just a circuit that automatically swaps the batteries for you. If you use latching relays like Matt said you could save some on the current used as you would not have to keep the on relay energized. The circuit I posted does not use latching relays but it should be pretty easy to adapt them for use in this circuit as Matt said or give him a shout and he can show you how he did it.

The only pulsing involved comes from the motor if you are using a pulse motor. Even without a pulse motor this circuit seems to be able to do a good job of conditioning the batteries and or running a load while keeping the charge up on the batteries. Feel free to ask for any more help if you need it.

Later, Carroll

[Mario]

Hi Shylo and Carroll,

that schematic for switching the 3 batteries is great and simple. The only thing that's different from the original bedini 3 batt schematic is that each time you change polarity of the batts the motor is in a different place, not always between the two positive poles of the batteries. But as long as your batts don't loose anything who cares

Mario

[citfta]

Sorry shylo

shylo, I just reread my first post to you and I did say have the relays pulsing before turning on the motor. I should have said have them switching not pulsing. Sorry for the confusion.

Again if you need any help just ask.

Carroll

[shylo]

Still thinking

The replies are awesome ,Cifta still trying to digest,

On a side note ,I did a run without the bi-filar coil, and I lost voltage.

The week-ends' here
Wish it was longer
artv

[shylo]

switch

Hi Carroll, I think I understand, when the top relay is energized ,the motor is fed by - of top battery , and - of bottom battery. When middle relay is energized ,the motor is fed by + of top battery ,and - of bottom battery. When bottom relay is energized ,the motor is fed by + of top battery ,and + of bottom battery.
If I am right in this assumption ,this is not how I'm rotating. My motor is always fed by 2 positives. The pic in post 2734 shows my connections.

Also I did 5 runs without the bi-filar coil and after each run my voltage went down (very small drops) but drops just the same.

I put the bi-filar coil back in ,10 runs later the voltage is back up to where I started.

Am building a switch that will hopefully let me swap batteries without any significant connection interruption.

Matt ,if your reading ,I would really appreciate seeing your switch.

artv

[citfta]

Correct

Hi shylo,

Yes you are correct that is the way the swapper works. However I have not found that it really makes much difference if any as to how the motor is connected. As long as two of the batteries are in series to produce 24 volts and the other battery is connected in reverse so it is being charged by the current going through the motor the system seems to work. I haven't seem Matt's system for swapping so it may be a better system. I was just looking for an easy way to reverse one at a time each of the batteries and this seems to work for me.

I have seen some difference as to which way the motor is connected though. In other words if you reverse the motor leads so that the motor is running in the opposite direction you may see a difference in charging. With my circuit the motor is always running the same direction unless you connect it with the leads swapped.

Carroll

[Matthew Jones]

Hi Shylo

I'll get that to ya. I've just been real busy. Monday I gotta work on the computer so I'll draw it up.

Carroll is correct about the direction of the motor and we had gone through this some time ago. If you have a positive and negative lead on the motor your going to want the positive lead closes to the high potential side of the batteries (IE 24v). Unless you are running on the ground side then you want the negative lead to the high potential. This can make a world of difference.

Most motors are designed to run clockwise.

Thats regular motor though. Your is a pulse motor or something so you may shoot for a small timing change. That might make a difference.
Also with your motor it may not be stepping the voltage high enough to make a good charge in the charge batt. Or its stepping the voltage too high.
The bifiliar coil may be holding it down or stepping it up further.

You will need scope to see the difference.

Some pulse motors I have built and used in this type of circuit were designed to not let the voltage go over 2 volt to the the charging battery voltage. If you are charging a 12 volt battery with a steady pulse at 13.5 or below you are most likely loosing charge. If it is over 14.8 you will also loose. This does not count transient spikes as they are a different game altogether.

Matt

[Mario]

Hi all,

just wanted to post this link:

JOHN Bedini IDEAS AND MOTORS

this would explain why there seems to be some success with brushed motors as opposed to electronically switched transformers... Sparks!

Mario

[Matthew Jones]

Mario

The deal with a transformer or choke that electronically switched is not that it will not work its the fact you have to drive it with a different purpose.
Normally you would switch them on and off giving you fluctuation in voltage. This would include OFFTIME.
You do not want off time and you really don't want a much fluctuation in the voltage. But you do want it in the current.
It is possible to just raise the current then back it off, but you need chokes or some kind of magnetic inhibitor of the current. You want current Ripple with voltage stabilty.
Driven correctly they look and act electrically just like motor except they have a lot more control as far as speed and total current past.
We can also raise or lower the voltage in the process. Without including the OFFTIME that come from a pulsed transformer or such...

You just think a little further than the box and soon its start to make sense why current fluctuation is more responsible for the actions in this system then anything else.

Soon I'll have working model for you. I have already seen it work but I have been the process of refining it as to not waste anything. I had some issues initially that I had to resolve, and to resolve them I had to order some parts.

I have been testing a choked system without the dead batteries and I am seeing result.

Right now thats my goal is to get rid of all the variable that we are trouble with. If others test an all good battery scenerio and it does not work well then we go back. I have tested with the dead batteries as well and I am also seeing results. People like Shylo are testing with the caps and that is working for him.
So all in all I think personally there is a solution at hand that can be reproduced even easier than the 3bgs with dead batteries.

That would be the goal anyway.

Cheers
Matt