3 Battery Generating System

[stupify12]

Tesla Did it Before

Read it for understanding.
Tesla Patent 334,823 - Commutator for Dynamo-Electric Machines

I don't know if this has been posted before:
I have had a chat with an electrical engineer today and the following was a revelation to me.
In a motor the brushes have at least 2 functions. The obvious one I'll ignore.
The second is back emf suppression.
The brushes are deliberately made so that they contact more than one segment of the commutator at any one time. This results in both spark suppression and also back emf (radiant energy) suppression. To avoid this you need to open up the motor and file down the brushes so they are much thinner and contact only one segment of the commutator at any one time. You can then fit a second set of brushes if you wish to pick up the bemf which will be in reverse polarity to the original.
What such a mod will do for this system is anyone's guess. But it may just cause a revolution.

[citfta]

Hi a.king21,

If your electrical engineer actually said the brushes are supposed to suppress back emf he should have his degree revoked. Back emf is NOT the same as the inductive spike of a collapsing magnetic field. The brushes are wider to prevent arcing. The arcing is caused by the collapse of the magnetic field. It has nothing to do with back emf. Back emf is the counter voltage developed by the armature moving through the magnetic field of the field windings or the field magnets. Back emf is always in phase and of the opposite polarity of the applied voltage. When a motor first has power applied to the armature there is no back emf. But you will see arcing of the brushes if the motor is under a load when starting.

Now as the motor comes up to speed the movement of the armature through the magnetic field of the field windings or field magnets a voltage will start to be generated that opposes the applied voltage. When the motor gets close to the rated run voltage the back emf opposes the forward or applied emf to the point that the motor current will drop to a level that is just enough to maintain the motor speed under load and overcoming the drag of the bearings. If there were no back emf the motor would continue to accelerate until it flew apart.

As an example I have worked on very large DC motors. They have an adjustable field current. As the motor is started the field current is at max. In that mode the armature voltage can be as little as just a few volts and the DC motor can still move a very large load. How can it do that? It can do that because at low rpm there is almost no back emf to oppose the applied emf. This allows the motor to draw a large amount of current to move the heavy load. The circuit has to be designed to limit the current so the motor and circuit can handle the heavy current needed to move the large load.

If the load is light enough and we want to run it at a higher than normal speed for the motor we can do that easily with a DC shunt wound motor. We just wait until the motor has the load up to speed and then we reduce the field current. Since the back emf is a result of the armature moving through the field, when we reduce the field current we reduce the back emf and the motor speeds up until the back emf is again equal to the applied emf minus the current needed to overcome friction and power the load.

These type of motors all have a safety circuit built in that senses the field current. If the field current drops too low it will shut off power to the armature. If the field current goes too low the armature current will go very high and the motor speed will also until something blows up or flies apart.

The brushes are wide enough to cover more than one segment of the commutator to help eliminate the sparking from the inductive collapse not to control back emf.

I don't know if this has been posted before:
I have had a chat with an electrical engineer today and the following was a revelation to me.
In a motor the brushes have at least 2 functions. The obvious one I'll ignore.
The second is back emf suppression.
The brushes are deliberately made so that they contact more than one segment of the commutator at any one time. This results in both spark suppression and also back emf (radiant energy) suppression. To avoid this you need to open up the motor and file down the brushes so they are much thinner and contact only one segment of the commutator at any one time. You can then fit a second set of brushes if you wish to pick up the bemf which will be in reverse polarity to the original.
What such a mod will do for this system is anyone's guess. But it may just cause a revolution.

Respectfully, Carroll

[shylo]

Com segments

My commutator is wired every other segment. That way there is no cross-over between connections. It makes a clean break before engaging the next set of coils.
I also believe the collapse or bemf is present in the skipped segment, which is where I have my collector brushes mounted.
I had a very good run this weekend ,26 hours and that was off the dead batteries.
I switched it up a bit , 2 dead batteries ,one good, and some super caps.
More testing but the good battery and the caps increased in voltage.
When I put load on the motor , the good bat and caps increased in charge.
More stuff I want to try ,will let you know.
artv

[Duncan]

In passing

I draw to your attention a key component in the Lockridge device as portrayed by JB in his video of the subject ... The stress placed on shaving the brushes down to less than the commutator width.

[a.king21]

............

[citfta]

Ok I think I see what you mean. If you are not classically trained it is ok to call the clutch pedal a brake pedal or to call a plant an animal. If you are not classically trained you can use whatever term you want to and it is not going to cause confusion. I think I have it now. I won't waste any more time trying to figure out what someone is saying when they use the wrong terms. This makes things so much simpler.

Carroll

[juan_86]

i want to cry...

No no no,there is no radiant energy, bemf is the normal operation of a motor.


citfta:
As an example I have worked on very large DC motors. They have an adjustable field current. As the motor is started the field current is at max. In that mode the armature voltage can be as little as just a few volts and the DC motor can still move a very large load. How can it do that?


so close yet so far..
i don't think there any hope for mankind anymore!

[Turion]

[QUOTE=juan_86;239707]1. There are many reason for people to not tell you things, sometimes for your own good!

2. It is under your noses... (there is no other word to describe it)

3. you looking at the wrong direction, it's not in spike, battery,bemf,scalar wave........bla3. it's in the dc motor and configuration of the battery, that all.
conversation about the secret to free energy, you could get away with saying that not giving me the information was for my own good. I'm saying post it here for ALL to see. 175,000 times someone has viewed this thread. Are they gonna beat us all up or kill us all? Highly unlikely. There is safety in numbers. As soon as someone posts the video and schematic of ONE woking device that is easy for others to replicate, it's a done deal.

If it's in the dc motor and configuration of the battery and all it takes is a motor, a battery and a light bulb, SHOW US. Don't just hint at it. Where's the video? Where's the schematic? Where's the proof? YOutube is waiting for you.

Dave

[Turion]

juan_86,

If we were having a one-on-one conversation perhaps "for my own good" is a reason for not sharing the secret of free energy, but 175,000 different times people have viewed this thread. Post it here and they can't kill us all. Or even beat us all up.

If you have a solution that is so simple you can prove it with a motor and a battery and a light bulb, please do. We can hardly wait. YouTube is waiting for your video. What are YOU waiting for?

Dave

[Duncan]

consider this Carroll & a.King

Hi Citfta a short while ago I would have described the action just as you have done … Its standard from the book stuff however, I have my own vision of what is happening here and I have been forced to revise my thinking considerably in the area you have just described.
That was really provoked by a question posed by Boguslaw some time ago regarding the difference betwixt series and parallel resonance in a circuit containing only an inductor and a capacitor.
Now without getting to bent out of shape consider this sentence from what is really your classic text book description “Back emf is always in phase and of the opposite polarity of the applied voltage”
If you think about that for a short while its an oxymoron that sounds good and is learnt parrot fashion, it cuts to the very heart of what I think is occurring here. If the back emf is in phase as the books say then how can the polarity possibly be different? The very term “opposite polarity” immediately implies and means anti phase. doesn't it
There is IMHO a section of theory that is intentionally omitted in this area. That there is opposition I must agree with after all a series wound motor with no load will quickly self destruct.
And certainly a DC shunt motor would go up with a big bang without substantial resistance in circuit at start up.
However I am now pretty certain that opposition is not as the text books have portrayed it for 130 years.
I also have a deal of sympathy for a.king because now we enter a zone where the words to describe the events are not available , its a bit like using the term resonance it has many meanings.
It so happens that there is a convenient term for the resonance we consider here I borrow it from the stable of Hector D Perez Torres “stochastic resonance” of course citfia you perhaps don’t consider these phase differences of much importance and in normal DC motor engineering it isn’t however consider now that the electromagnetic wave as we know it is radiated from an antenna when the antenna is in resonance and that radiation is physically at 90 deg to the generating force. This is the transverse radio wave as we know it.
There are as I'm sure you know two separate “resonant” states series and parallel it so happens that the formula for both is identical … this is what made Boguslaws question difficult to answer in any direct way.
It then begs the question what happens if you tune to the other resonant condition ? You are in fact then tuned to the linear wave which isn't supposed to exist …. so it isn’t taught and we do not have the physics or theory to deal with it.(never mind the words)
Else where on forum you will find erfinder has devised methods to physically separate these two forces and is preparing to sell demonstration kits.
This then is the wave Eric Dollard speaks of in his lectures. You can I hope now see the importance of trying to get a clear picture in your mind of what you actually mean by “exactly in phase and in direct opposition” It does make sense but only if you alter dimension and time and accept that the standard theory you quote is in dire need of correction


“The law of continuity of energy” is maintained when the energy existent at one time disappears but reappears at another time. Oliver Heaviside

.
PS I also include this link to the Radient energy PDF
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/RE-OU-v6.1.pdf

[a.king21]

Back emf

Thanks Duncan - you are an experimenter who knows his stuff.
It seems that there are some untrained people on this thread who do not know what CEMF also known as Back EMF is.
To those ignorant people I post this link
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/RE-OU-v6.1.pdf
and suggest they go and learn.
I suggest page 6 - 4th paragraph to confirm what I and most on this thread already knew by experiment- not books.
Ignorant people thumped their fists on the table and said the world was flat.
Ignorant people especially classically trained EEs do the same.
They are semantic pedantic and know facts by rote.
- Just as flat earthers did back in their day.
We true EEs learn facts by experiment.
We know the difference between a clutch pedal and a brake pedal.
Classically traine EEs just portray their ignorance and are the laughing stock
of the real pioneers.
I wonder if any of them are man enough to apologize?

[DavidE]

juan_86

Are you a protagonist, obstructionist or a florist?

I can’t decide which category you fit in best. Maybe you should show us what you mean. Because so far, you sound a lot like a Florist.

The real universal language here, is a circuit with a description of how and why it works. Otherwise... you are just pushing daisies.

[citfta]

I will not apologize for trying to help someone understand the proper terminology. And I did look at the paper you linked to. Just because someone else does not understand doesn't make them right either.

I am not an EE! I have worked in electronics for over 50 years troubleshooting and repairing all kinds of industrial machines. I am real sure i understand the proper use of CEMF and BEMF. My work has always been hands on and not theory.

If you insist on calling an apple a pear it is fine with me. I won't waste anymore time on this subject.

Carroll

[Turion]

If you take a look at the UFO motor run in the 3BGS setup, you will see some interesting things. Because there are two sets of brushes on the windings, there are two separate sources of energy coming out of this motor, or at least that is what I have experienced. I think that motor topography is worth exploring as well as the topography of the Universal motor. I still believe we can get an output from the motor greater than what it consumes while running because we KNOW 12 volts go in and 18 volts go out. Where does that extra voltage come from. Is it the generated voltage of the motor turning? Is it the back EMF that is setup by the coils in response to voltage input? And what about the radiant spike? Do we even have one? If so, why? If not, why not and how do we get one? We haven't investigated the motor enough to account for all of these when the motor is wired between the Positives or Negatives. We do indeed have some things right under our noses that we haven't investigated to the fullest, but that is no excuse for someone who knows the answers refusing to drag those things out into the light of day.

Dave

[shylo]

Dave I agree

I'm still testing ,but some things show charge , others show drain, ...?
What I found interesting is with the difference in potential...
When it's close , nothing happens.
The more gap between the two ,is when the magic happens.
With a bigger back-up, (that doesn't drain) , the more it charges.

Why do 2 dead batteries in series , that are less than 11 volts , charge cap banks , and a good battery ,above and beyond 13 volts.? The whole time running the motor, with a load on it??

??