3 Battery Generating System

[wantomake]

Water is deep now

Now this is a lot to chew on. The pool just became an ocean.

Thanks for the video Dave. Good reference as I start building.

Aaron what did Paul B. do to get his coils to a "reduced impedance effect" state? Sorry if that's a proprietary thing for him.

It's 12:00 midnight here so will read all this again in the morning.

wantomake

[Aaron]

zero-stating the inductor

Aaron what did Paul B. do to get his coils to a "reduced impedance effect" state? Sorry if that's a proprietary thing for him.

His switching circuitry also monitors the coil to make sure it is completely discharged before the power pulse is applied on the next cycle. I've seen massive transformers light many thousands of watts of ballast driven bulbs with his lighting control circuits and the transformer stays so cool that you can't warm a cup of coffee on it. His methods are legit and he is further ahead than most. Most of his circuit methods are out of the realm of the average builder bit it worth studying his patents and all his video presentations to at least understand the principles involved.

As far as recovering the inductive kickback from a coil switched off, his circuits do it the best. I'd recommend reading all his patents. Flyback Energy is the assignee of most if not all of them. Obviously not all the generator methods here will have spikes and they may run in conventional generator style but with reduced drag effects, but there are a lot of things that Paul accounts for that others have not - at least not to the level that he has.

[wantomake]

Shorting coils and cold coffee?

His switching circuitry also monitors the coil to make sure it is completely discharged before the power pulse is applied on the next cycle. I've seen massive transformers light many thousands of watts of ballast driven bulbs with his lighting control circuits and the transformer stays so cool that you can't warm a cup of coffee on it. His methods are legit and he is further ahead than most. Most of his circuit methods are out of the realm of the average builder bit it worth studying his patents and all his video presentations to at least understand the principles involved.

As far as recovering the inductive kickback from a coil switched off, his circuits do it the best. I'd recommend reading all his patents. Flyback Energy is the assignee more most if not all of them. Obviously not all the generator methods here will have spikes and they may run in conventional generator style but with reduced drag effects, but there are a lot of things that Paul accounts for that others have not - at least not to the level that he has.

Thanks Aaron,
If it can't heat my morning traditional coffee then that's sad. Lol.

I do struggle in circuitry field but have basic understanding. Is it similar to what the shorting brushes on an amplidyne motor does? Maybe not.

Will look through Paul B. patents and circuits. Can't smoke any coils, that is very counter productive. Two options- correct core material and/or correct circuitry.

I did order enough 23 awg magnetic wire for the first multi-strand coil and a coil mechanical/hand winding machine with counter yesterday. Both should be here Tuesday next week.

Must nuke my coffee and study more,
wantomake

[jettis]

FYI Here is patent number https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../US5514923.pdf

We have seen this design (5,514,923) in Muller, John Bedini’s exterior three coils on the Ferris wheel and elsewhere on this forum and Energy Science Forums etc.

I do not know if Muller ever patented his device but it appears that this Patent Number: 5,514,923 sure seems to be a direct representation of what Muller and a partial of what John Bedini displayed.

Here is the abstract and summary of the device that is relevant to this topic currently being discussed. Figure 3 from the the patent 5,514,923 shows the three coil offset embodiment clearly, just as in the three large outside coils on John’s ferris wheel.

Anyway here is the...

ABSTRACT A high efficiency multi-phasic type DC motor incorporating brushless electronic switching to phase the attractive and repulsive forces between the permanent magnets in the rotor and wire wound air core coils in the stator. The unequal number of magnets and coils provides a designed imbalance, so that proper energization induces rotation and torque in the motor's dual flywheel rotor. Electronic switching collects inductive kickback and back emf simultaneously during the motor phase and in addition, disconnects the attraction and repulsion phases during regenerative braking, etc. and directs all this generated power back to the power pack where it is stored in batteries and capacitors. The rechargeable batteries and capacitors in the power pack are the source of operating electrical power for the motor. The rotating assembly is designed to have adequate mass so that the kinetic energy of rotation smooths out the pulsing moments introduced by the attraction and repulsion of the coils and magnets and to ensure continuous rotation of the dual flywheel rotor. The combination of electronic switching, the low hysteresis loss in the air core coils, the streamlined configuration of the rotor which reduces windage loss and the recovery of the generated currents in the air core coils contribute to the high efficiency of the electric DC motor.


SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION The subject invention describes a highly efficient pancake shaped multi-phasic DC motor with dual flywheel rotors that operates with generator characteristics that simultaneously captures and stores inductive kickback and back emf, in addition to collecting generated power (regenerative braking, etc). RPM, torque, regenerative braking, inductive kickback and back emf are all variable and controlled by a microprocessor and algorithm. Batteries and capacitor banks are used as a rechargeable power pack. At 100 RPM to 3,000 RPM, this high efficiency DC motor with generator and flywheel characteristics has an efficiency of about 80% to 95%.

My question is if we can get up to 95% recovery when operating a (set of three coils) motor/generator in the manner shown, are we then able to cascade this 95% recovery directly into a second stage or arrangement of three more coils and so on and so forth.

Dave Wing

[BroMikey]

FYI Here is patent

Electronic switching collects inductive kickback and back emf
simultaneously during the motor phase and in addition, disconnects
the attraction and repulsion phases during regenerative braking, etc.
and directs all this generated power back to the power pack where it
is stored in batteries and capacitors.

Yes I see what you mean. This is a design we heard from Muller
but anyone sitting down with a wheel of magnets searching for
the best low cogging alignment for gen coils might come up with
something similar.

The part that I like is the mention of the special circuitry where OU
can be had (it doesn't say "Special circuits") by other means than
what our discussion has so far been centered around.

Others steps beyond the 3 batt sys never end it would appear.

I see Thane using the parallel wound series connected coils right off
bat but not Muller, and then like Muller and others did, at the same time,
collect up (with special circuits) the inductive spike and throw THAT
energy back to the batteries ALSO.

So that is 2 sources of energy circulating in the system used to recharge
the drive energy and does not take away from the normal run processes
that we all know. You know battery to motor and the battery goes
down and goes down even faster if you try to tap in.

I saw John put an encoder wheel on his pancake generators off the
big ole giant wheels almost hitting the ceiling. Such drama.

Gonna miss John.

John was playing with collecting back also.

[BroMikey]

The exact SG that this 12 strand
generator coil was is in this picture:



That is the picture on the cover of Bedini SG

That is very good to know, otherwise I would not assume it was
a 12 strand coil parallel wound then series connected.

Now that makes sense why it was a self runner in some cases or
could get closer to break even.

[Aaron]

SG with gen coil

That is very good to know, otherwise I would not assume it was
a 12 strand coil parallel wound then series connected.

Now that makes sense why it was a self runner in some cases or
could get closer to break even.

At least it was disclosed in the book - and is probably 10 strand and not 12.

This machine was never a self runner but comes very close to breaking even (electrically) - we haven't even added mechanical, which you can see if you do the leather strap, spring scales method with a pulley. If you do, attraction mode can be around 25% or more in equivalent electricity so it is a bit over 1.0 COP. However, I only brought up the SG because of the gen coil that is related to this current topic.

What is very interesting about it is that at x draw running on normal mode, the cap bank is discharging y joule seconds per dump at a certain speed.

When switching it to generator mode, the input draw only increased about 50%, but the cap discharge is now discharging twice as fast so the cap output doubled in joule seconds for the same time. And this doesn't even use the gen coil output.

[wantomake]

DIY machines to wind a coil

To ALL,
Ordered wire, spools, coil winding machine with counter this week.

Trying to build a multi-filar coil winding setup before all the parts get here. Thinking to use threaded rods lined up across on a board side-by-side. Place a large washer, the spool, washer, lite spring, washer, then nut. The spring to keep the magnet wire taught as all wires are pulled through a plastic donut guide then onto the main coil spool mounted on the mechanical/hand coil winding machine. I know pictures would be better but planning before building works best.

Any ideas are welcome. If anything I'm approachable and will discuss ideas.

Thanks,
wantomake

[kenssurplus]

Hi Wantomake,

I hope that my input here is acceptable.

10+ years ago, I built homemade 3 phase windmills. My first windmill built from scratch, I built by winding coils. I really didn't understand what I was doing very well at the time, and being off grid, I needed power quickly. With limited funding, I didn't have the correct size of wire that the plans called for. I did however have 28gauge wire and reading about lits wire being good for alternative energy projects I decided to use the wire I had and make my own lits wire to match the gauge the plans called for.

I had one large spool of 28gauge wire, so I pulled off 100 feet of wire, cut the end and left that strand laying straight. I then repeated that process 49 more times. This was a difficult process for me, as the wires wanted to get tangled, or kinked, and while winding the coils, behaved like herding cats.

My coil winder I built from a 500 rpm 24 V motor running on 12 volts or even 6 volts from a battery charger into an old washer worm gear reduction box. On the end of the reduction box I built a special coil former with removable sides to keep the coil in the correct shape (a teardrop shape) and thickness.

From my experience and studying, a hand winder will cause your coils to be tight on one side and loose on the other because your arm has greater strength pulling than pushing. Whereas with the motor you can maintain equal tension on the entire circle.

Your set up sounds like you will have spools for each strand. That set up would be prohibitively expensive not to mention a construction nightmare for me. I don't know whether you are going to buy one spool of wire and de-spool enough wire for each strand onto a separate spool, or buy one spool of wire for each strand.

Ultimately this version of the three phase windmill was a failure as vibration at the connection points caused the small strands to break. Furthermore lits wire achieves gains with high-frequency, and my windmill would only operate in low hertz, therefore no gains were realized. Even though the windmill functioned, it's output was not up to specification, so the next windmill had the correct gauge of wire and worked much better.

Your coil winder description sounds good for a few wires. If you're going to do very many strands like I did, you'll have to stack threaded rods vertically as well.

However you decide to do it, I'm cheering from the sidelines here. I expect you to receive inspiration on what to do.

Ken

[wantomake]

Separate spools

Ken,
I’ll be using different spools per strand. Will wind each spool separately from larger purchased spool. The winder has a counter so can wind each spool exact feet as I need.

Yea my first windmill worked ok. But made the props out of pvc pipe a big no-no. The high winds,a storm actually, broke them and one stuck in the ground like an arrow. Saw the whole thing from my shop. Never build cheap windmill again.

wantomake

[wantomake]

Arduino switching

Good coffee sippin to All,
Did some more Arduino switching setup yesterday. This is the way I plan to switch the five battery positions around in the 3BGS setup.

I'm a noobie to this C++ and Arduino workings. I want to use the 8-channel relay module to switch power to a separate set heavy duty relays for the battery banks.

At this stage I'm currently learning Arduino and building the generator/motor as per Dave's video. As time and life allows.

Just posting to give update and encourage any builders or interested out there,
wantomake

[wantomake]

Pieces of the puzzle

Just returned from Lowe's store with precut 3/4" x 14" x14" plywood 4 pieces. Also some pvc 3" unions to hold the coils in place. I will use wooden dowels with pvc pipe as spacers and construct the holders so they can be removed to add coils as they are made. Not sure of the rigidity/strength of this design, only a build will reveal that.

wantomake

[wantomake]

Good Friday !!!!!

Good coffee and Friday with spring temps here in SC !!!!!!

Got the Temco wire in yesterday. So will be looking forward to the winding machine due before Tuesday. Did get the 3/4" x 14" x 14" holders and sides of the vertical generator/motor finished. Hope to drill dowel and shaft holes today. The five positions for the coils was fun but done.

The mags are 2" wide with 3/4" wide coil cores, not sure that matters as long as I get the air gap correct. Will be using welding rods as core material at first. As the research into better core material advances, so will mine.
The rods will extend 3/4" on both ends of the end piece boards to hold the coils in place. That idea may change.

Trying to build a frst time machine that can be upgraded/adjusted as testing progresses isn't so easy. But I'm encouraged by the generous donors for parts and advice to get me off my retired butt and challenging this old coffee sipper.

Dang what a good feeling to witness this birth of a generator/motor I've never built before,
wantomake

[wantomake]

2nd Generator/Motor

Here is the progress thus far. 14" x 14" coil holders and ends. The rotor is 10 3/4" diameter with 2" magnets.

Will try to get rotor and shaft in tomorrow or Sunday. Dave mentioned a certain method to use the bearings with threaded rod/shaft. Will try that with bearing brackets on end boards.

wantomake
PS: 1st generator/motor never got to this point.

[ATTACH]20577[/ATTACH][ATTACH]20578[/ATTACH][ATTACH]20579[/ATTACH]

[liber63]

I am jealous. Definitely I will do that in due time. Have to finish some other problems first. Thank you wantomake for the detailed progress. It will be very helpful.
The modified motor I made with my friend can be made better. After all it was my first try. These days myself alone(!) I rewound the small MY1016, I made three strands to one litz wire and corrected the timing. The motor runs cool. 3300rpm-15V-0,73A and 5620rpm-24V-1,57A.
One thing I cannot understand is that connected to bigger mod motor which I test as generator and the output through bridge and capacitor, the voltmeter still goes all around the place and I cannot take measurments. The capacitor I put in parallel. Does anyone know how to be able to make meter show the exact voltage?