3 Battery Generating System

[altrez]

I have had a few people over to look at what I was doing and a few emails asking questions.

1. The red fluke is for explosion safety, I use them at work.
2. The 100% battery level on the wireless watt/volt meter is reporting the charge of its battery.

Just in case anyone was wondering lol.

-Altrez

[Turion]

Last time

altrez,
thanks for doing the testing by establishing a baseline with off the shelf stuff, and then using the modified motor. I already know what you will see.

bi,
Some day you will understand our frustration. We have done HUNDREDS of hours of testing this motor side by side with a standard motor. Loaded, unloaded, low voltage and higher voltages. We have used scopes and meters and expensive battery analyzers. Yet you, with your vast experience with a motor you have NOT BUILT, are able to look at a video and discredit everything we are saying. You don't even understand what you are seeing. It is laughable.

[bistander]

Simple facts

...
bi,
Some day you will understand our frustration. We have done HUNDREDS of hours of testing this motor side by side with a standard motor. Loaded, unloaded, low voltage and higher voltages. We have used scopes and meters and expensive battery analyzers. Yet you, with your vast experience with a motor you have NOT BUILT, are able to look at a video and discredit everything we are saying. You don't even understand what you are seeing. It is laughable.

Turion,

Being frustrated doesn't make you right. In fact it can cloud your vision of logic and truth. All I said was that it is obvious from luc's video that the power into the motor is more than power out of the motor in that experiment. There was no battery.

It is wrong to claim that motor outputs more power than its input.

I said nothing in regards to any effects voltage spikes originating in the motor might have on batteries.

You and wantomake both claimed that video proved the motor power output exceeded its input power. That is wrong. The video clearly shows the opposite.

Regards,

bi

[altrez]

Here is the current test results.

This is the one battery circuit:



This is the basic test with PWM:



These are from the battery connection on each before the load.

-Altrez

[altrez]

Tests over for the night, going to let the batterys rest over night then I will test them again to see what we have.

My observations at this point seem to show that there is not much of a difference between running the motor controlled with a pwm or using the one battery circuit. Perhaps I should have just directly connected the motor to the battery?

I used a PWM years ago and posted results in the closed thread and back then it always showed good results.

Perhaps it is all about balance

More results tomorrow!!

-Altrez

[Turion]

Opinion

It is your opinion that I am wrong. It is not a fact. Far from it. Regardless of what you say. So we will just have to agree to disagree.

[bistander]

Opinion

It is just my opinion that 16.84 is larger than zero. So you disagree. O.K.

[wantomake]

Ignore list

I guess it's best to use the ignore list. Everybody has a right to voice their opinion. But if the opinion is disruptive and not true then my right to close my ears and eyes is my choice.

I hope to get more done soon on this build. We are waiting for contractors this morning. So another weekend with little building.

A hot cup of coffee to All this Saturday morning.
wantomake

[Iamnuts]

All.

To all except Bistander, if you’ve all developed perpetual motion machines
you’ll even pale Einstein into insignificance!
Sincerely,
John.

[Matthew Jones]

Tests over for the night, going to let the batterys rest over night then I will test them again to see what we have.

My observations at this point seem to show that there is not much of a difference between running the motor controlled with a pwm or using the one battery circuit. Perhaps I should have just directly connected the motor to the battery?

I used a PWM years ago and posted results in the closed thread and back then it always showed good results.

Perhaps it is all about balance

More results tomorrow!!

-Altrez

There may be cases in which a PWM is beneficial, but in this case because you are trying to recover energy you are waisting by adding time to the over all wave form. And this is the worst most consumptive way to waist energy.

For instance you put 24 volt 1 amp into the PWM it breaks that up to a 50% duty cycle and passes it to the motor. The motor reaction to the impulses is to average out those pulses into a voltage. 24 volt 1 amp at 50% duty cycle is equal to 12 volt 1 amp. You have to average the on time with the off time.
Thats an automatic 50% loss of power just because of the averaging.

For recovery you are better off just lowering the voltage on the output which in turn lowers the input, as opposed to raising the voltage and segmenting it. Time is a power killer.

Matt

[altrez]

There may be cases in which a PWM is beneficial, but in this case because you are trying to recover energy you are waisting by adding time to the over all wave form. And this is the worst most consumptive way to waist energy.

For instance you put 24 volt 1 amp into the PWM it breaks that up to a 50% duty cycle and passes it to the motor. The motor reaction to the impulses is to average out those pulses into a voltage. 24 volt 1 amp at 50% duty cycle is equal to 12 volt 1 amp. You have to average the on time with the off time.
Thats an automatic 50% loss of power just because of the averaging.

For recovery you are better off just lowering the voltage on the output which in turn lowers the input, as opposed to raising the voltage and segmenting it. Time is a power killer.

Matt

Thank you so much for explaining that to me! It makes perfect sense. The reason I used the PWM was to make sure I could get the same amperage going into the basic test motor as what I was reading going into the one battery test circuits motor.

And that seemed to work fine in this case.



-Altrez

[bistander]

PWM motor controllers

Thank you so much for explaining that to me! It makes perfect sense. The reason I used the PWM was to make sure I could get the same amperage going into the basic test motor as what I was reading going into the one battery test circuits motor.

And that seemed to work fine in this case.



-Altrez

Hello Altrez,

PWM motor controllers are buck converters and operate efficiently employing current multiplication through a freewheeling diode. Matt is incorrect. They do not waste 50% of the power at half voltage. Please don't believe me and look up buck converter or PWM DC motor controller.

Regards,

bi

[Turion]

Options

Wantomake,
The ignore list is a great option. So that’s what I’m using.

I have to look at it like this. It’s kinda like a guy with his own flying saucer in his back yard being told by some self righteous buffoon that man will never fly. When I step back and think of it like that, it makes me laugh and I don’t get so frustrated. He may never know just how MUCH he doesn’t know. So he will go forward in ignorance until the day the truth slaps him in the face. I won’t get to see that happen, but I KNOW it is coming. I can’t wait to see if there are excuses or if he just runs away and hides. Either way, it will be entertaining.

[altrez]

Hello Altrez,

PWM motor controllers are buck converters and operate efficiently employing current multiplication through a freewheeling diode. Matt is incorrect. They do not waste 50% of the power at half voltage. Please don't believe me and look up buck converter or PWM DC motor controller.

Regards,

bi

Hello bistander,

Do you have some links you could share on this?

Thanks!!

-Altrez

[wantomake]

Looks good

After thinking about this a bit. I have decided to add a PWM to the basic test to control the power going to the motor. I want the power going into the motor to be as close to the same on each test.

If I just hook it straight up to the battery it will run wide open. I will sync up the basic test to the one battery circuit test in regards to power going into the motor to keep things fair.

Any thoughts?

-Altrez

Thanks for being part of this. Looks like good setup. Would like to see more do this and yes me too.

Maybe get some shop time tonight if contractors get done today.
Sorry no thoughts to add.
wantomake