Alum conversion for lead acid batteries

[BroMikey]

Hi bromikey, thanks for sharing.
Treating each cell with a bit of alum to a new or used lead acid, with the acid still intact, sure seems like something of high value to people that rely on battery banks.
Do you have any information about how this extends the life by around 6 times?

Sure I have some ideas about battery life.

Let's start with my scooter. I buy new batteries for scooters like
buying cough drops for a sore throat. Why? Because
conventional charging results in an eventual meltdown of
all of those beautifully constructed plates.

I have come back to see if my battery is charged only to
find the outside cases melted together on a hot day and
an over chagre.

Now does that tick me off? You bet.

No ALUM won't make your battery last up to 6 times
longer using a DC charger, nope.

The only thing that makes a battery last 6 times longer
is to COLD BOIL your batteries EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Cold boiling refers to a boiling action inside a charging
battery that is generally associated with heat and is
bubbling away stone cold.

This bubbling action becomes more distinctive at the end
of the charging cycle and signals a full condition. The full
condition of a cold boiled battery is as much as 20 percent
more than a DC charge.

The heating action of DC is the first thing that kills your battery.

The second thing that lowers your battery life is caused when DC
chargers can never fully charge a hot plate, then sulfates spiderweb
your plates.

ALUM makes batteries HIGH DENSITY batteries taking almost twice
as many joules to charge them because these ALUM batteries
give back more.

Thinking that ALUM conversion will extend battery life
without the use of an ENERGIZER is a false assumption.

You can extend the life of an ACID battery 6 times with an
ENERGIZER. The Alum batteries have qualities that far exceed
LEAD ACID.

The ALUM batteries I have tested using an inverter will start
at 12.5 volts and when they reach 11.5v with hang there
nearly forever then go all of the way down to 10 volts
under full current.

My lead acid cells start at 12.5v and when they go down
to 11.5 volts you can look for a full crash landing in a very
short time at 10.7 volts.

ALUM is a battery improvement but can never be exchanged
for an ENERGIZER.

My Energizers have 3 modes of operation. SG mode which is
seldom used directly connected to the battery. Instead the
SG mode charges caps that are dumped to the battery.

When I do not use a capacitor discharging unit, I use what is
called GENERATOR MODE or JOULE THIEF MODE. This means
that the batteries share a common ground unlike SG mode.

I use GENERATOR MODE to cold boil my batteries because
the pulses relieve the heating condition that DC chargers
impose.

Also remember that an ENERGIZER can be used to force
charge a battery that can cause heating. This is why
following manufacturer specifications is important.Such
as the C20 format.

A 20 AH battery C20 rate = 20 divided by 20 = 1 amp

Also remember a 20ah battery is only good for about 2/3rd
of 20ah = 13ah because we don't want to take all of the
power from the battery.

So a 20ah battery needs 20 hours to charge and 20 hours
of discharge time to get the full 13ah of power from it.

If you run the battery harder than this heating occurs and
shortens the life of the battery as well.

Mikey

[SkyWatcher]

thanks for sharing the info, mikey.
So how many charge cycles do you think it will have by adding the small amount of alum to each cell.
Have you ever tried this method of adding alum to the acid on a new battery?
Others have reported much greater charge cycles, from 120 to around 600 or so and no mention of special charging.
peace love light

[SkyWatcher]

here is some info i found.

* Sodium Sulfate is reputed to extend the life of new lead-acid Batteries by 3 or 4 times, and, with cycling, to restore some good life to old ones.

* Sodium sulfate should be chemically superior to sodium-aluminum sulfate or potassium-aluminum sulfate ("alum") for these purposes, and much better than magnesium sulfate ("Epsom salts").

* Alum is nonetheless effective, and has been added to some 6 volt golf cart batteries - hence their notable longevity over other types, such as 750 charge-discharge cycles versus a typical 120.

* It's been reported that Interstate put sodium sulfate in their Optima batteries (originally designed by Hot-Rod Magazine in about 1990). But evidently they have stopped using it: At an electric car company, I learned that some "prototype" Optima batteries had lasted 5 years in daily electric vehicle (EV) use. Optima batteries delivered later lasted only "the usual" 1 to 1-1/2 years.

[BroMikey]

testing testing

[BroMikey]

On one hand we have sales people making a lot of claims and
on the other hand is reason. Reason shows us that if you do not
give DC a rest period, heating still occurs.

If you slam 20-30amps to a car size battery right off the bat
using the standard methodology of DC battery chargers that
begin to taper off current in 20-30 minutes because voltages
are now at 13vdc, you will ruin all batteries.

[BroMikey]

Testing post limit

[SkyWatcher]

Hi mikey, so have you tried adding alum salt to a brand new battery with acid intact and tested with conventional charging to see if the charge cycles are extended?
peace love light

[BroMikey]

Hi mikey, so have you tried adding alum salt to a brand new battery with acid intact and tested with conventional charging to see if the charge cycles are extended?
peace love light

Absolutely. My 100ah DEEP cycles ($300) (High Grade High Quality)
not that Walmart trash, give me up to 170ah back.

Yes old or new if batteries function when converted they act the
same way. I am sending you my finished statement now if this
site will work.

There are some extenuating possibilities where users are aware
of damages caused by heat who select a lower powered DC
charger and run a C20 rate and couple that with a high density
electrolyte putting the current 4X times reduced from normal
DC runs.

However even this way of charging with never
cold boil a battery. It is certainly possible that
a battery that only worked 120 cycles might
go 600 runs.

These are definitely improved results.

What you must understand is that I am speaking
strictly from the stand point of extending battery
life to decades instead of weeks or months.

Heat is the killer. Heat keeps your plate from being cool
And i want to keep my batteries cool so they will not
degrade from sulfation through diminished charge capacity.

Over charging and under charging unleashed by a conventional
DC box will give you the minimum cycles for the highest
cost for the fastest charging cycle possible.

Even on a very very very low crawl of DC from a conventional
charger a battery will never reach over 14.1 volts and the
battery is still warmed up. Any heat even as minute as it
may seem to you will prevent a battery from a fully
charged condition immediately lending its plates to
sulfation.

There is no escape. A wet battery can be quickly pushed
up to 12.5-13.5vdc with optimum ENERGIZER current
inputs and then reduced several times to produce a
longer deeper C20 cycle charge with no heating TO 16vdc.

You can't do that, I can. Therefore you will not achieve
the MAX result of battery life. Try it, I did.

This is why you see me spend so much effort on my beast
oscillator thread. Up until now I have had to baby sit every
charge cycle for every battery i own using a SOLID STATE
BEDINI ENERGIZER, now after learning and ENERGIZING
things have changed.

I can walk away and when i come back the battery is cold
boiled to 15.2vdc for my dry cells made wet. The amp hour
gains tell the complete story. Ask my children when they
are buzzing about on scooters which battery pack they
want? They will tell you that ALUM batteries Zapped
with an energizer gets them where they are going.

We have learned where the rubber meets the road
under full load conditions. Take no prisoners.

Scrap your DC heater boxes

[SkyWatcher]

Hi mikey, thanks for the information.
I know your right, the heat is not good, i have been trying the regular type chargers, since most people will not make there own chargers or even buy bedinis.
So these tests were for the average joe.
I don't have a cap pulser built, but i can easily cobble together again a solid state collapsing field pulser.
I was using a capacitive charger, the kind using wall ac power, seemed to work good, though too dangerous.
So the capacitor dump pulser is really doing the trick with the full alum conversion hey, i might have to put together a low power one and try it.
Thanks again for sharing your experiences.
peace love light

[BroMikey]

Stuff like this gets everybody in the game.

This is a car relay that is either 20-40 amp contacts

Just sub out the 12v source battery for a set of 24v caps

Then use your DC walwart to charge the caps up till you
can build a radiant converter to get the really good stuff.

If you do replace the source battery with a set of caps you will
have to put a resistor by the relay coil to lower voltage back to
12volts or just use a 24v relay.

TICK TOCK TICK TOCK and you are doing it.

[wantomake]

SSG or Imhotep types

Stuff like this gets everybody in the game.

This is a car relay that is either 20-40 amp contacts

Just sub out the 12v source battery for a set of 24v caps

Then use your DC walwart to charge the caps up till you
can build a radiant converter to get the really good stuff.

If you do replace the source battery with a set of caps you will
have to put a resistor by the relay coil to lower voltage back to
12volts or just use a 24v relay.

TICK TOCK TICK TOCK and you are doing it.

Thanks Bromikey,
Is the Imhotep fan or relay energizer good for the alum (added) batteries?

I have a bank of batts for my solar panels and want to alum them. I have been doing total conversions of batteries with good success.

This is good to learn!!!
wantomake

[Sawt2]

Mikey
Is the switch in that circuit just a simple on/off or is it an intermittent (like a rotating switch) on and off.

Stuff like this gets everybody in the game.

This is a car relay that is either 20-40 amp contacts

Just sub out the 12v source battery for a set of 24v caps

Then use your DC walwart to charge the caps up till you
can build a radiant converter to get the really good stuff.

If you do replace the source battery with a set of caps you will
have to put a resistor by the relay coil to lower voltage back to
12volts or just use a 24v relay.

TICK TOCK TICK TOCK and you are doing it.

[BroMikey]

Thanks Bromikey,
Is the Imhotep fan or relay energizer good for the alum (added) batteries?

I have a bank of batts for my solar panels and want to alum them. I have been doing total conversions of batteries with good success.

This is good to learn!!!
wantomake

Mikey
Is the switch in that circuit just a simple on/off or is it an intermittent (like a rotating switch) on and off.

Well there are so many versions. Look up

IMHOTEP RADIANT OSCILLATOR on youtube, many have one working

I accidentally built one last night hooking my latching relay
up backwards. It is hard to explain. Bascially the inductive
spike is harvested off of the relay coil at the same time the
contacts dump raw power in bursts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=034TBAr1u-s

[BroMikey]

I would like to invite all of you, to look at my cap dump thread and
Beast Oscillator thread where detailed information of John Bedini's
devices are explained.

Step by step instructions. Exact details.

To be fair to the ALUM CONVERSION thread, please visit me
on these threads for learning simple versions as well as the
more complex.

The reason i made these threads was because I wanted to
have a place to go to for people to get every thing in one
place, including myself. When I forget what i built I go back
and look at these threads.

No where else on the web could I find this material all
together, just a small picture here and a diagram there
of incomplete work.

Just generalities.

No hands on help, nothing complete around the world
unless you want to spend months going through dozens
of threads and then I was unsure if the material was
actually John Bedini related.

So I promised myself that once I had found the answers
I needed to build a cap dump according to specs along with
an SG oscillator that was in Solid State form, that I would
compile this information.

After several years of looking around the web at John Bedini
materials and speaking with John personally on his other
FORUM I became sure of what I was building.

Mostly what I saw at first was a coil forsale by a
Rick guy (tricky) that was being sold for battery
charger/Energizer experiments and turned out to
be a 100 foot Litzed coil for 7 channel operation
with no wheel on it.

This got my attention.

The only diagram I could find was something that
Lasersaber and Pat came up with (Cool Minoly) and
this was called a forced oscillator. Later I found
that this was from John Bedini tube Oscillator
Patents so things were falling together.

Look around the web for any thing complete where
specific values are available and you will find yourselves
back at John Bedini's new forum for beginners.

Still that new forum most only wants to deal with
the wheel type of oscillator. I had a huge amount
of information over there at one time and one of the
mod's deleted it all in a few minutes so I would never
recommend anyone go there.

Over a years work of daily posted of hard work
gone over night. I posted daily and that site was
dead week after week.

From there I wondered how long I might be on
this site and did not know, so I put my own website
together promising myself that the information
would always be available regardless of character
flaw conflicts where personality worship is more important
than actual experimental data.

The only place that I have found to be fair is the
ENERGETIC FORUM the men here kick each other
around sometimes, but they are men who are
here to see to it that the data gets out to the
public.

Aaron is your main man. I have held my peace about
website conflicts of the past and how I have been
kicked out, but no longer.

This is what makes the ENERGETIC FORUM the
best in the world, that I have found. I can take it
on the chin so fire away if you have a bone to
pick.

That is the way it should be It hurts yes.

The other way is to withhold the complete story.

I had years of battery charging and discharging data
sheets for radiant oscillators that were treated like
trash so I promised myself that I would put my stuff
on my own website so years of research and sharing
could not be erased on a whim.

I have grown to trust Aaron and this site is run by him.
I understand that other people own this site but
without Aaron we are lost.

THUS the BEAST OSCILLATOR thread

This thread will not leave you hanging on anything and makes
some people mad, I understand. The one's it makes angry
are the ones trying to make money selling plans and packages.

Whoever that is Probably no one because most people have
gone on to other experiments as if this one is worthless.

Anyone bypassing the JOHN BEDINI radiant oscillator has
missed it all. To ignore this work is pure ignorance.

Also the cap dump thread deals with every detail for a large
or small design. Resistor values, Mosfet numbers, you name it.

By the time you learn every other inductive spike radiant oscillator
you can build my easy CAP DUMP that is better in most ways.

ALUM batteries are like all batteries, they need the SG mode, they
need generator Mode, they need CAP DUMP mode.

I hear that people make there own compromised cross between
the Bedini oscillator and a DC charger. No good.

Stick with the best and you can find it ALL here on these threads.

I understand that the reason why others have not gone to
such detail to compile this very important information is because
it takes a lot of time. Huge amounts of time plus they didn't
have their own website to post hundreds of pictures on.

I made the effort and have the site. I know Aaron has increased
available space with this improved website but in the past it was
not always so.

If you are going to charge ALUM converted batteries right to
sustain the life of the batteries for decades read my threads.
My threads are by comparison short to searching for data
splatter around the world.

This is all stuff right from the horses mouth.

Personally I would have thought that after 20 plus years
that what I have shown in these tiny threads would have
already be accomplished many times over, but I guess
this stuff keeps getting deleted.

Even the Patrick Kelly documents are not that specific.


http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...illator-2.html


http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...circuit-9.html

[Almaz]

I started the conversion with my car battery but I totally forgot it's winter time and 10F outside. Is it safe to use Alum Battery when it's freezing outside in my car?