Alum conversion for lead acid batteries

[Joit]

Totoalas, so far what i have tried now, Aluminium sulfate seems work better, where sulfate is a different Name for Salt or the Form as you get it delivered, because it cause lesser loss when the Batterie is standing.
I tried Potassium Alum, even with a bad Batterie, what seems had pysical damaged Cells, and it showed anyhow more self decharging. Aluminium Sulfate is without Potassium or Natrium, and seems more concentrated, Potassium Alum seems more is a mix from potassium and aluminium.
But what i have read, it worked for some too, to empty the Batteries again and refill it with a different Solution.
Lead acid Batteries can get damaged when its contaminated with precious Metals, where some of them are in normal Water, thats why it doesnt work well, when you refill it with normal Water.

[totoalas]

Totoalas, so far what i have tried now, Aluminium sulfate seems work better, where sulfate is a different Name for Salt or the Form as you get it delivered, because it cause lesser loss when the Batterie is standing.
I tried Potassium Alum, even with a bad Batterie, what seems had pysical damaged Cells, and it showed anyhow more self decharging. Aluminium Sulfate is without Potassium or Natrium, and seems more concentrated, Potassium Alum seems more is a mix from potassium and aluminium.
But what i have read, it worked for some too, to empty the Batteries again and refill it with a different Solution.
Lead acid Batteries can get damaged when its contaminated with precious Metals, where some of them are in normal Water, thats why it doesnt work well, when you refill it with normal Water.

Hi Jolt
thanks for the info, with aluminum sulfate , will try on 70ah battery 1 1/2 yrs old and will post some results
will try to aerate the cells to clean up the plates as well

totoalas

[totoalas]

70 Ah Alum Battery Success 240312

Hi to all
Using Chucks method, I was able to increase the charging voltage from initial 12.30 max with ss ssg after just 3 hours it stands @ 13.2 v dc

thanks to you all guys no need I think for an aerator in normal charging...

In the Philippines where the hillside are in the rough road... Charging batteries goes to the process of riding a tricycle passing to the bumpy roads to shake off the plates and only then can it be charged for good way to desulfate lol

totoalas

[Joit]

NEAT! totoalas

I am happy with my SLA now too, the holding charge, just need to use them more often, that they come back to her old Capacity.

How to open a sealed lead acid (Gel cell) battery to add distilled water. - YouTube

[Neight]

NEAT! totoalas

I am happy with my SLA now too, the holding charge, just need to use them more often, that they come back to her old Capacity.

How to open a sealed lead acid (Gel cell) battery to add distilled water. - YouTube

Thanks for posting the link to the video on opening SLABs. I have several of them and I have been looking at them thinking about trying to open them. I really wasn't sure how safe that was, but it looks like if you are super careful, it's not too bad. I have two identical SLAs and I could convert one of them, and then compare them to each other. charge time, discharge time, and heat output under load and charging, and see how they compare after several cycles.
It might take me a few days to get one of them converted, but I am definitely going to try now
thanks for sharing your results Totoalas and Joit, very interesting to see!

N8

[Joit]

Hi Neight, It looks like Superglue what they did use, but actually you only need a thin screwdriver to come in, and a bigger on the lift the cap and it falls apart, i only hope they do not change that now when they see what some do with it :P
Another Advantage is that they are then deep cycle Batteries but more robust.
Disadvantage could be, that they get a bit higher self decharging Rate.

[Neight]

Hello all
I am in the middle of converting an old SLA to alum. I am washing out the cells with baking soda, and have been through several rinses already. I started with a battery that I haven't been able to get to charge at all for a while now.
I have used it as battery 3 in the 3 battery generating system, and it works quite well as B3, because nothing has been able to fix this one so far.
I figure if I mess this up on the first go-round, it will only cost me one battery that refuses to work anyway...
so far, everything seems to be going well as far as I can tell. I am still getting a bubbling reaction from each cell, which tells me there is still acid in there, and I will keep rinsing until there is no bubbles or apparent reaction taking place.
I do have one question right now though, one cell in this battery is dumping out a brown colored dirty looking water. It almost looks like rust in the water. does this indicate a bad cell, or is the internal structure of the plates breaking down? This would explain why this battery has been un-fixable up to now. The other 5 cells in this battery seem to be rinsing clean, no color in them when dumped.
also, how in the world do you get all of the liquid out of these cells? no matter how long I let them drain upside down, and even if I give the battery a decent shake, I can still hear liquid in there. The amount I have to add each time has been consistent, as has been the amount I get out when dumping the battery out.

Just trying to see if it is worth continuing on this battery, or if I should start fresh with a new one, if this one has a bad cell. I don't know how to test each cell individually for voltage, but the battery as a whole has already gained a small voltage just cleaning it with the baking soda and water.
any guidance here would be appreciated, as I know next to nothing about batteries.

N8

Update: Looks like that cell is bad, and possibly one of the others. doing the alum conversion has helped this battery for sure, as it will now hold at least 5V, but it's supposed to be a 12V battery. It looks like it will still work OK for the 3 battery generating system, and with a few runs on that, I hope to see some additional improvement. I honestly didn't let it charge long at all, but what little charge it had, it used up right away with a small motor for a load. It took less than a few minutes to drain out about an hours worth of charging. I have several more batteries to try this with, and hope to get a couple of them working again. This one was just too badly damaged, which I expected when I saw the reddish brown sludge coming out with each rinse.

[JamieM]

Individual cell voltages

Can anyone advise what their maximum cell voltage has been with alum (mine Al SO4). I have managed to get a 6volt lead acid working ok (the others are too heavily sulphated!) but I dont have a radiant charger (yet) and am just using a bench power supply to charge the battery.
If anyone has seen Dr Linderman's battery secrets video or are fortunate enough to have been at the conference when he delivered it, From your experiments I was hoping to know what the final peak charge voltage of the alum battery is?

I have purchased a number of other salts to try as well.
Epson salts Mg SO4
Gauber Salt Na SO4
Copper Sulphate Cu SO4.

Ill let others how my tests go with these.
Cheers
JamieM

[totoalas]

Calcium Battery

Just want to ask if somebody had converted this type of battery made in korea 60 ah

thanks

totoalas

[JamieM]

Well,
all three chemicals worked!
Copper sulphate CuSO4, Magnesium Sulphate MgSO4 (Epson salts), Sodium Sulphate NaSO4 (Gauber Salt).
All were used in 1:10 ratio with water. That is 100gm per litre or water. Most just filtered water. I only bothered getting distilled water for my Good batteries for field testing. ie the car!!
I'd like to try Ferrous sulphate and Potash (KSO4) as well to prove a point to myself. Sadly this is a little more costly. But i will get to it! and post the result.
I'm in the process of trying to nut out the chemistry in the mean time.

Of interest is that the Aluminum sulphate is the only one that is able to respond both ways during Hydrolysis. That is create an acid and an alkali.

Furthermore the CuSO4 precipitated the copper onto the electrodes irreversibly suggesting that the Cu ions are not participating in the chemistry beyond the first charge. The final outcome of using CuSO4 is that it fails once all the copper is removed from solution. (This may be reversible by substituting AlSO4 or NaSO4 as both are more reactive!) (No doesn't work, battery is ruined!) Cu is not reactive in water either(giving us some further clues to the chemistry). Unlike Na or K which are strongly reactive.

************************************************** **********
Those reading please be warned I believe part of what is happening for NaSO4 is that native Na created in the charge process as small particles is reacting directly with the H20 to form H2 gas. This creates more H2 Gas than the common lead acid battery and could be explosive in confined spaces!!!! this is also probably true for KSO4 so watch out!
************************************************** **********

The other downside with NaSO4 is that solubility decreases markedly below 0 deg Celsius. This means that the battery would precipitate out in colder temperatures in Europe and the States amongst other places. Not really an issue here in South Australia!!!

I'll be adding my best battery to my car shortly to give it a real workout and see how i go. (5 weeks and still going strong!)

Jamie

[JamieM]

totoalas,
I have converted small 6 volt lead acid batteries right up to 622 CCA 12V batteries. It also works with Pb Ca batteries.
I have also converted maintenance free batteries by drilling through the top of each cell with a 17mm hole saw and then reseal with a plastic plug afterward.
All I can say is give it a try!

[totoalas]

totoalas,
I have converted small 6 volt lead acid batteries right up to 622 CCA 12V batteries. It also works with Pb Ca batteries.
I have also converted maintenance free batteries by drilling through the top of each cell with a 17mm hole saw and then reseal with a plastic plug afterward.
All I can say is give it a try!

Thanks Jaimie for the info Just by using the Minoly mod monster ssg / 10- w solar my 12 60 ah CA battery got the green indication but any way will convert to Alum sulfate on Saturday......
All my alum converted batteries are having charge voltage of ave 13.4 standing its 2 months now with no heat at all

totoalas

[IndianaBoys]

Negative Resistance non linear material?

Bearden's book "The Final Secret To Free Energy" page 22 refers to degenerate semiconductor material starting on page 22.

Have seen it somewhere referred to as "negative resistance" non linear material.

Does this parallel Bedini's battery forming video where he shows crystals forming up on the lead plates?

IndianaBoys

[mauiflipper]

Alum Conversion

Since this thread is about Alum conversion, let's just talk about that. Start another thread if you want to talk about something else. It's a pain to wade through a bunch of unrelated stuff.

Any way, I finally have a little time to try an alum conversion on some old FLA 2 volt cells from a submarine charter company. I picked these cells up about 2 years ago and they have been sitting ever since. I dumped out the Acid into a bucket and rinsed the cell out real well. I did one final rinse with distilled water. I then mixed 2 cups of Alum with 1 gallon of distilled water (per Chucks instructions) and heated that together on the stove. With the water hot, the alum mixed in almost immediately. With the water till warm, I poured the mixture into the cell. It immediately showed .4 volts. I am now charging that cell with Rejuvenator on the lowest settings. These are 500 amp hour cells. Charging voltage is at 2.2 volts right now. I plan on stopping it at 2.4-2.5 volts. I will just wait and see what the battery wants to do. Since, I'm using a charger that was meant for a 12 volt battery, I have to watch it and stop it manually.

Once it's done, I will check the resting voltage after 12 hours. If it's above 2 volts, I will do the same to the other 11 cells I have and make 24 a volt bank and hook it to my solar system and put it through it's paces. Hopefully, they aren't too badly sulfated and will take a charge, but so far, so good.

I have 12 other 2 volt cells from the same company and I brought them back pretty well, putting them in 12 volt configurations, using two Rejuvenators in parallel. They were all in operation, the day I picked them up, so I think this just might work.

[Slider2732]

On the other end of the scale from your experiments mauiflipper, is my second converted battery, a regular 12V car battery.
(good luck with those cells btw, i'd not heard of such a type being converted before).

This battery was in regular use on our car til around 3 years ago, got dumped at the back of the garden and sat there til the end of last year. It was rejuventaed with a self built Bedini SSG and had some Epsom salts added to the presumed very weak acid. It then was solar charged by my 5W little system and ran a night light for a few months.
Resting voltage every night was about 10.5V or so and the nightlight circuit used <2mA. So, there has never been much more than it sitting around.
It was converted last week and I used the approx 1/10th Alum to distilled water process.
It charged nicely enough over a week, resting at just over 11V and with 2.5A available, albeit the output from the solar panels is only ever up to 0.4A.
It sits now, after 4 days off charge at only 9.2V.
Was my mix too weak...can I simply throw in some more Alum to bring it to 1/8 mix ?

However, there is a curious anomaly with this battery, now that it's just sitting around. If I use a car starter meter, which shows up to 25A as a battery checker, the amperage will rise over a 10 seconds period. Rather than show an instant level, it will gain over that time.
I disconnect the meter and the battery voltage will actually climb up to around 10.5V and sit there for a few hours !
Anyone know what's that about - does it mean it's suited for higher drain work ?