Alum conversion for lead acid batteries

[Joit]

the link I posted is not a scam
you must learn basics about voltage and amperage:
connect a small 12v battery to your car ie those small low amperage batteries for motorbikes , then try to move the electric windows in your car, you will note that such battery have not enough power to move them....
( idem voltage but low amperage= electric windows not works)

Still a Fact is, a Motor depends on the VOLTAGE how fast it runs.
I exlained it allready for you above, what we do NOT talking about some Toy Batteries what are in a car.
You even quoted that, but either you even dont read what you quote, or you simple dont understand it, what i replied.

Even more ridicoulus your claims that the electric Windows will turn slower.
During driving, the Power comes from the Generator not the Batteries.

Gosh, really, i go and report you soon, that a Moderator delete your useless Trash here.

[Laser]

Still a Fact is, a Motor depends on the VOLTAGE how fast it runs.
I exlained it allready for you above, what we do NOT talking about some Toy Batteries what are in a car.
You even quoted that, but either you even dont read what you quote, or you simple dont understand it, what i replied.

Even more ridicoulus your claims that the electric Windows will turn slower.
During driving, the Power comes from the Generator not the Batteries.

Gosh, really, i go and report you soon, that a Moderator delete your useless Trash here.

Im talking about electric windows turn slower when the motor is off because the battery is buggy=low amperage

of course when motor is on electric windows will run fast because the alternator delivers more amperage

if you do not understand this basic shiit is because u are retard

[wantomake]

Crystal battery?

Check out the last entry I posted over on the "3 Battery Generating System" thread. The battery is experiments from this thread. New twist or what?

wantomake

[theatronix]

experience/failure with alum battery

I first read this thead about a year ago (early 2013 or late 2012). I bought some alum from "MySpiceSage", and a new garden tractor battery to experiment with. First, I charged it up totally, then dumped the acid and went through several gallons of distilled H2O washing it out repeatedly. Filled it with alum solution at the concentration recommended in several posts. Charged it up using a 6-amp automatic 3-stage charger. After several charge cycles over several days, I measured the standing voltage at 12.5. When I put it under load with a battery tester that, at 12v, draws about 100 amps, it dropped down to about 8 volts. I sort of expected that due to the small size of the battery.

Next, I re-charged it and set it aside. (I have a shelf of used batteries that get charged at least once every week or two as I cycle the charger from one to the next one whenever I walk past that area)

Last week I tested it again. Rest voltage is still in the 12.5 region, but under load it dropped to flat zero, regardless of how many times I charged it.

I decided to see what I could find out, and dumped the alum into an stainless bowl. It came out a muddy grey/brown color, with a lot of particulate matter. I rinsed the battery out several times, but the rinse water was still muddy. Then, while shaking it to get the last water out, I heard a bunch of rattles, and some small pieces, about 1/8" to 1/4" came out, obviously indicating that the plates are damaged. The battery is sitting empty right now, and I may take the top off to find out what is in it.

What did I do wrong???

[Joit]

It looks like your Battery isnt that new as you thought. The Plates from newer Batteries do not simple fall apart. They are bound with a grid and after few years when they get older they fall apart. But usually, you dont get any mud out from them when you only flush them, even not after a while.
Flushing is actually only needed when the Battery is sulfated and then you need to flush them with other things then only destilled Water, but else, the rest of acid what are in there when you deplete it willl convert with the new filling.
Remeber, there was only destilled water in it.
Make a Solution from about 1:10 (see specific weight of Water) and get a new Battery. Thats one seems is crap now since the Plates did fall apart.
When you want to try to rescue it, the best you can try is to flush them few times more and bring the broken pices out, else they will make a short inside and some cells may dont wanna work well.

[theatronix]

The battery was purchased from the Bimart store Dec 2012, and the date "punchouts" on it claimed it was new on "Nov 2" (I assume this meant 2012 rather than 2002, since there are only 0-9 punchouts for the year.) I did the alum conversion within a week or two after buying it. I guess it may have been at the store or a warehouse too long before that, or maybe was defective from the factory. It appeared good when I did a current test before doing the conversion, holding at over 10.5 volts at a 100 amp load for 15 seconds. (rated at 200 CCA)

The manufacturer is Exide.

I may try again with another new battery later.

Anyway, thanks for the answer.

[Joit]

Maybe flush it again, refill it with dest Water and ask if you can get a new one, because you only did charge it few times, to keep it full, and then it didnt charge anymore. Maybe tell them too, if they really ask, that you did deplete it to see is something is wrong and you did see this mess.

If its a bigger store i wouldnt really bother about it as they do, its a mass article, and it doesnt hurt them when they take it back. Your Battery pretty looks like it was damaged allready.

The Timestamp seems right, here is a link for reading her Stamps
I WANT TO CHECK THE MAUFACTURING DATE OF EXIDE BATTERY MFG - Fixya

[shackmasterchris]

Battery flushing

Sorry if this has allready been posted but I did not see it. I'm in process of converting old RV batteries to Alum and was wondering how much flushing / cleaning of acid you guys are doing to the battery. I'm filling with soda / water mix couple times and then rinsing couple more times with regular tap waster. I'm noticing a black matter coming out of the batteries as I dump the water. I'm figuring this is lead off of the plates. I'm I correct? Should I keep flushing until no more discolored water is seen or is this removing lead from the plates thinning them and possibly damaging them? Thanks.

[Joit]

Hi.
I did do a cleaning once with 2 spoons baking soda at 1 ltr Water and waited about 15 mins. You see it when you take a part lead and put it into the soda solution, that it starts working. After that i flushed it 2 times with distilled Water. I dont use tap water, because it has minerals in it. Someone said once, it will damage your batterie plates, lead and lead oxide, if you use tap water. I did not try it. Closest to distilled Water is pure rain water, but still not sure, if its clean like destilled water.
The first link from 3 Threads here are in Post #1 where some did clean and flush Batteries with baking soda

I saw lately a guy on youtube what flushed a batterie with tap water too, but he used espom salt afterwards.
DIY: Opening a Car Battery and Repairing with Epsom Salts - YouTube

You should flush it a few times too, until there is close no dirty water in it again.
Usually the plates inside are solid. when they fall apart then i think the battery is allready damaged. But its better to bring this loose parts out, when they are inside at the bottom, they can make short at 2 plates and means the whole cell will not work.

Another note what someone said once. You should deplete a Batterie only when its charged. But then you have more Acid in it, but the Battery charges better afterwards. I think it has something to do with it, that some from the negative plate, lead oxide, is in the battery electrolyte.

[shackmasterchris]

Thank you Joit very much, now I know that I need to do a better job cleaning the battery when converting to Alum. Another question I have. I have since read about Desulfating old batteries. Is it possible to desulfate a battery once converted to Alum? Or would the sulfation chemically react to the alum and be a possible danger?

Another question is that will Alum converted batteries sulfate as do lead acid? Will I need to desulfate my batteries used in my RV and boat annually as I would lead acid batteries?

Once again I thank you guys for putting up with me, I'm very new to this tech and very excitedly learning all that I can as so I don't go out and need to replace my multiple RV/Boat batteries annually which has been a constant issue with me owning such toys.

[Joit]

If you would want to clean them once again after a while it would not be a problem to deplete them again and use again that soda mix. And else it would not work the first time when it would do a reaction

I dont know it from all Batteries, but the one what reported it, didnt say it does a lot sulfate anymore. But some Peoples here charge them anyway with the Bedini-like devices, what help to prevent sulfation at common.

Maybe think about it too, if you dont simple buy a charger from him when you dont want to tinker a lot around and wanna have a simple solution for a radiant charger.

I also can not say how much they sulfate over years because some did do it first before a while.
Here is a link again where Sepp Hasslberger started it, maybe there are further information about long term use anywhere at his page
Sepp Hasslberger

Here is another link about J. Bedini when forming one of that cells where also the suflation is mentioned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF5AB7NF51k

[stevecmagni1]

Just a thought

Well done all for your efforts that are clearly proving that alternatives to battery solutions are available. I ran by this patent take a look. Try it in new motor cycle batteries, after running with acid for while.

Regards
Steve

Patent US5945236 - Lead-acid battery electrolyte fluid solution additive - Google Patents

ABSTRACT
A lead-acid battery electrolyte fluid solution additive is disclosed, the fluid solution additive including aluminum sulfate, cobalt sulfate, copper sulfate, magnesium sulfate, cadmium sulfate, sodium sulfate, potassium sulfate, and deionized water sufficient to effect extended battery life.

[SkyWatcher]

Success with Alum and brand new battery

Hi folks, hi steve, I'm having good results with using alum from grocery store, on an exide-cutting edge tractor battery.
It is a 235 cold cranking amp flooded lead acid.
I bought it specifically brand new, to try treating each cell with a tablespoon of alum, to see how it would react.
Since they say that the charge cycles can be increased to around 6 times by adding alum or sodium sulphate.
Well after a few cycles, it is now taking almost a full charge again, it takes the full 6 amps from this car charger, where as, for a few cycles, it was only taking around 4-4.5 amps.
Seems a key was to drain it a couple times down to around 1-1.5 volts, then it regained almost full capacity and stands above 13 volts.
Also keep in mind, this battery would only stand at around 12.6 volts, fresh from the store, so the alum salt must have cleaned the plates well.
Seems like electric vehicles of all kinds and solar homes should be aware of this treatment, if it does indeed extend the charging cycles by around 6 times.
peace love light

edit: i should point out, that it still has the original acid in it, i just added a tablespoon of alum to each cell.

[BroMikey]

I have converted around 100 batteries with half of them going
back to the bone yard. Here is what I have learned.

"MOST TIMES" and I stress the phrase because you never know.

Most times "IF" your battery is reading12-13volts but has no
power you can run the SG mode after filling to remove the sulfate.

However reverse charging after fully discharging a few minute
will reveal that it charges better forward next time and is what
JOHN BEDINI shows us.

In fact JOHN B states that his machine have detectors knowing
if the battery is dropping to far in volts and the machine will
discharge the battery fully-give a rest period and reverse charge-
then discharge-rest period and forward charge OVER AND OVER
AND OVER repeating this process till the machine is satisfied.


Think about it. AND if your battery is at 4volts or 8 volts or even 10volts
your battery is trash/garbage and the MACHINE won't even consider
it a 12volt battery.

Here is what I have done.

I take my batteries to the bone-yard, the girl tells me
to put them over there, I take them and set them where
they go and short out all the batteries I like. If it sparks
a little I give her a buck for it and try to revive
it.

Number one. Put it on a conventional charger first for 5 minutes.

The battery should be 12 volts. If the battery does not go up
to 12 volts you have big big problems because this means
have have a broke plate.

If you are wasting ALUM on broken batteries, shame on you

JOHN STATED charge the battery up normally and if it is not 12volts
in a short time you are running a high risk of failure. And you know
what I say to that?

I say a 90 percent failure risk for batteries that won't go to 12 volts
on DC. A 12 volt battery may run down to 2 volts and charge back
up again if this was recently discharged but don't leave it a month.

Also if the battery is 10volts I have learned it has an internal short
and after charging it full it will drop over night back down to 10volts
again.

The battery does not warrant conversion.

I repeat if the battery is not reading 12 volts then put it on a regular
charger.

If the battery fluid levels are not visible you might add a small amount
of ALUM then run on a conventional charger. It better read 12volts
very soon or you are going to fail.


I have had batteries check out fine during this portion of the process
only to short out or reveal a break under SG mode cleansing.

This is why I look for the new looking batteries that are empty.

Then I succeed every time. A dried out battery reads 12volts
every time but produces very little current.

Add ALUM reverse charge 10 minutes to see if forward charging is
improved. Batteries at 10.5volts are broken.

Mikey

[SkyWatcher]

Hi bromikey, thanks for sharing.
Treating each cell with a bit of alum to a new or used lead acid, with the acid still intact, sure seems like something of high value to people that rely on battery banks.
Do you have any information about how this extends the life by around 6 times.
That would be good to share, to show people the benefits of this.
It's funny, when one researches these things and you see the occasional comment saying, noooooo, don't do that.
Well, i ignored that no and guess what, it works.
peace love light