Peg Motor

[Les_K]

Mmmm Remember this?
http://www.energeticforum.com/118496-post110.html

Les

[Armagdn03]

Of course I remember!!! I guess im just going at it from a different angle!

[Les_K]

Ha ha ha, of course you are.......

Les

[myenergetic]

Alternate mag-flux link rotor generator

About the Radus double flux path design:

There must be a way to mechanically switch the conduction path of the magnet from upper to lower rotor. This would be very interesting as it would take very little if ANY input energy. Any thoughts on mechanical switching for this device to eliminate coils?

This already has great concepts involved in its design. It doubles the pulse rate, as each cycle of the radus style path is used, plus the expansive aspect of magnetism. I have never seen a device like this, I really like the possibilities here.

This has a pretty good chance of working well, in my opinion, what do people think about making a cumulative build on this guy? You there Dragon? lol, I know you are a machining god.

@ Armagdn3
@ dragon

I think there is a way to electrically control the path of the magnetic flux through the rotor and utilize alternative path and parametric control of the motor regenerator by solid state switching.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1332465991

Hope it helps

JJ

[Armagdn03]

@ Armagdn3
@ dragon

I think there is a way to electrically control the path of the magnetic flux through the rotor and utilize alternative path and parametric control of the motor regenerator by solid state switching.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1332465991

Hope it helps

JJ

Thank you! Someone is paying attention!

John B...Any thoughts?

The switching can be done in a variety of ways. If you consider "Hopkinson's law: the magnetic analogy to Ohm's law" and the fact that all flux will take the path of least resistance you can imagine a few switching methods.

If you have two paths for the flux to travel coming out of a magnetic source (permanent magnet) the flux will tend to the path of least resistance. If you the two paths alternate in their effective "resistance" or magnetic reluctance, the flux path will switch along with it.

Reluctance can be changed by saturation of the core (or part of the core) along axial lines of the pm flux, or orthogonal to it (this could take the form of parametrics), which will also change permeability. You can also change gap spacing, or by moving something (ferromagnetic material, or another permanent magnet) in relation to to the Bloch wall.

It is relatively obvious in my book why the MEG does not work as described. If you really wanted to make that guy run, I would ditch the trigger coils which create their flux paths along the same path as the magnet, and go for ones orthogonal to it. This will change the permeability of a section of the core increasing the reluctance of the loop associated with it. The result is still a change in the flux path, but now the output coils are not inductively connected to the trigger (which can be mechanical like in Wesley gary's motor, or electric).

[Les_K]

I must be missing something...
Isn't this Ecklin?
http://www.rexresearch.com/ecklin/ecklin7.jpg
He clearly states replacing the dc with permanent magnets. on the earlier pages he shows the motor function with windings on the inside tabs. and even better performance if wound on the rotor.

There must be some difference here, Sure be cool to see something animated maybe then I could get my head around this.....

Les

[Armagdn03]

Ecklin was thinking along similar lines.

What I am primarily talking about is....

MEG or Radus + Magamp (non inductively coupled flux switching) = very interesting device.

[erfinder]

Ecklin was thinking along similar lines.

What I am primarily talking about is....

MEG or Radus + Magamp (non inductively coupled flux switching) = very interesting device.

Heres a thought....

Latching Magnets....the switching mechanism would be electromagnetic, and should not require an external power supply, nor electronic switching.....wonder if something like that is possible.....

Regards

[Les_K]

Ecklin was thinking along similar lines.

What I am primarily talking about is....

MEG or Radus + Magamp (non inductively coupled flux switching) = very interesting device.

Oh, I was going down the wrong road....
What your talking about is something more like Johan's or Bob Boyce's Hex inverter.
Or perhaps something like Steven Mark's TPU. (Although in this case I personally believe he inherited the device, and suspect it was originally built by Tesla. Mark had no clue about it's operations as far as I can tell; IMHO)

Looking at Bedini patent US 7,109,671 brings into play several things I had not realized before. In this patent the windings are overlaid. But then it is also important to note that it incorporates ED's work as a function of parallel rods. Radus boots are all over this thing. But one thing that stood out to me is that by flux switching there is an increase.
Honestly I am quite surprised, as I have not seen any replications of this work.

Anyway, I don't want to distract from the real purpose here. I am very anxious to understand more about this motor (Peg) and where John bedini and Lindemann will help you go with this.

Les

[myenergetic]

Radus + Magamp Generator

Ecklin was thinking along similar lines.
What I am primarily talking about is....
MEG or Radus + Magamp (non inductively coupled flux switching) = very interesting device.

@ Armagdn03

The principle is well established as demonstrated in the attached papers.
Quote from Charles J. Flynn of Flynn Research Inc for RADUS principle Paper attached

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1332795379

"The armature pull-off tests that were performed with no magnets, the 1,200 turn coils on and powered and the 0.070 shim produced an average of 3.72 Newton’s of force. The configuration with the magnets, no coils, and the 0.070 shim produced an average of 8.75 Newton’s of force. Therefore, one would think that by adding the two configurations together, that the force would equal 3.72 + 8.75=12.47 Newton’s, but with the two configurations together the pull-off force increased considerably to an average of 22.82 Newton’s. This does not violate the laws of conservation because there are a total of 3 flux-producing sources in the fixture – two magnet stacks and a solenoid"

The parallel path magnetic motor generator exists and is efficient in overall performance after carful considerations of all losses compared to standard generator. Jim Murray tried to get a patent to one of his MEG designs the Dyna-Flux generator please read starting page 11 the attached reference.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1332795473

The performance benchmark test on the preliminary model proves the principle

Alternator............................. Standard................Dyna-Flux

Full load input power:............357.35 watts.........404.75 watts

No load input power:..............319.80 watts.........381.94 watts

Actual input power:...............37.55 watts........... 22.81 watts

Full load output power:..........31.77 watts.......... 33.06 watts

Conversion efficiency:.............84.61 %.................144.93 %

System efficiency:...................8.82 %....................8.16 %

Even though I cannot find the book referred in your reply post # 65 Quote "It is relatively obvious in my book why the MEG does not work as described” Your new design may include a combination of both principles.

Hope it helps

Regards

JJ

[Armagdn03]

@ Armagdn03

The principle is well established as demonstrated in the attached papers.
Quote from Charles J. Flynn of Flynn Research Inc for RADUS principle Paper attached

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1332795379

"The armature pull-off tests that were performed with no magnets, the 1,200 turn coils on and powered and the 0.070 shim produced an average of 3.72 Newton’s of force. The configuration with the magnets, no coils, and the 0.070 shim produced an average of 8.75 Newton’s of force. Therefore, one would think that by adding the two configurations together, that the force would equal 3.72 + 8.75=12.47 Newton’s, but with the two configurations together the pull-off force increased considerably to an average of 22.82 Newton’s. This does not violate the laws of conservation because there are a total of 3 flux-producing sources in the fixture – two magnet stacks and a solenoid"

The parallel path magnetic motor generator exists and is efficient in overall performance after carful considerations of all losses compared to standard generator. Jim Murray tried to get a patent to one of his MEG designs the Dyna-Flux generator please read starting page 11 the attached reference.

http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1332795473

The performance benchmark test on the preliminary model proves the principle

Alternator............................. Standard................Dyna-Flux

Full load input power:............357.35 watts.........404.75 watts

No load input power:..............319.80 watts.........381.94 watts

Actual input power:...............37.55 watts........... 22.81 watts

Full load output power:..........31.77 watts.......... 33.06 watts

Conversion efficiency:.............84.61 %.................144.93 %

System efficiency:...................8.82 %....................8.16 %

Even though I cannot find the book referred in your reply post # 65 Quote "It is relatively obvious in my book why the MEG does not work as described” Your new design may include a combination of both principles.

Hope it helps

Regards

JJ

You are correct, these are very much along the same lines. Variations on a theme. However we got off on a tangent.

This thread is about the repulsive (perpendicular to the poles) aspect of magnetism. Radus gave us an interesting way to control the switching for such a device. Flynn is almost identical to Radus, but radus was first.

There are other who have done similar work....Wesley Gary, is a great example which predates Radus (1879).

Nobody ever really tries the mechanical flux switchers. They all resort to electrical switching. But all their electrical switching uses control windings which are parallel to the pick up coils (they are inductively coupled)

But what if we were to control the flux path, through changing the permeability / magnetostriction of one path with respect to another cyclically. This requirement does not need inductively coupled triggers and pickups.

[broli]

This thread is about the repulsive (perpendicular to the poles) aspect of magnetism. Radus gave us an interesting way to control the switching for such a device. Flynn is almost identical to Radus, but radus was first.

I agree and I recommend you stick to your original design, it's the simplest one to build and could serve as a good proof of concept to show whether this idea has any viability.

[i_ron]

Hi SkyWatcher..

snip

This is not what the device is, I don't claim to know what this thing is, what I'm getting at is that the device reminds me of two devices that John Bedini has demonstrated (then theres the Peg Motor and the Perpetual Motion Holder Motor Generator...my device, inspired by this patent....coming soon...)

Regards

erfinder,

I would like to hear more on this concept. How is it coming along?

Ron

[broli]

I just ordered a couple of flat torroidal transformers from Conrad, which I'm going to strip the wires from:

Rectangular, flat 2 X 12 V 15VA buy now - Conrad Electronic SE Ring core transformers Electronics Online Store

The good thing about this particular model is that it's extra flat which is more beneficial to this setup as there's more surface area to work with. The price is also very reasonable, I don't think you'll find anything better in that price range.

I intend to test both the peg motor idea as the generator concept I have been working on with this design.

Now I just need to find something for the cores that will hold the coils. I was thinking of using the same toroids and cut a large gap into them but that could become messy if not done right from the get go, any suggestions are welcome.

[blackchisel97]

I just ordered a couple of flat torroidal transformers from Conrad, which I'm going to strip the wires from:

Rectangular, flat 2 X 12 V 15VA buy now - Conrad Electronic SE Ring core transformers Electronics Online Store

The good thing about this particular model is that it's extra flat which is more beneficial to this setup as there's more surface area to work with. The price is also very reasonable, I don't think you'll find anything better in that price range.

I intend to test both the peg motor idea as the generator concept I have been working on with this design.

Now I just need to find something for the cores that will hold the coils. I was thinking of using the same toroids and cut a large gap into them but that could become messy if not done right from the get go, any suggestions are welcome.

Hi broli, is that what you meant? - Rectangular, flat 2 X 12 V 15VA buy now - Conrad Electronic SE Ring core transformers Electronics Online Store

I got two 120mm toroids from Lithuania, few days ago. They cost me $13 with shipping. Still working the concept in my head.


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