Jes Ascanius Radiant collector

[thx1138]

- I am in the Shenandoah Valley, Luray at about 1076 feet above sea level. I wonder if sea level or tides could affect the readings. I'm over 100 miles from the eastern shore, and sea level is only few feet of change a couple times daily, and I don't see how this could affect the readings so much.

Height above sea level is just a reference point to how much atmosphere is between you and space and therefore how much atmosphere the radiant energy must penetrate to get to your collector.

Studying the solar activity effects is a good line of thought, but I probably won't correlate the testing with what others report because I can only depend on data I collect myself. (believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see)...

Then I doubt you will find a correlation to anything in your environment because you can't measure the solar wind from the surface of the earth because there are too many things between you and it.

Also, just collecting usable radiant energy is my goal, so energy fluctuations will simply affect the amount captured, which I can measure daily.

Correct. But I think you'll find it's not economically useful. Since the energy fluctuates it now requires storage of some kind and you're getting into the same problems that plague photovoltaic systems. What I found was that I would just be trading the expense of grid power for the expense of buying and maintaining the storage batteries.

The problem with the radiant energy system is that it has very, very low power density so it takes a long time to accumulate enough energy to do useful work for a very short period of time. It was an interesting experiment for me but that was about all. There's cheaper ways to charge a cell phone which is all Jes Ascanius was doing.

Good luck.

[tgraca]

Thanks again for your insights!

I think you'll find it's not economically useful.

What I am doing is a viability study. I have found a variety of caps abundantly available for almost nothing in bulk and can get what I need for energy storage for almost nothing and sell any surplus on eBay for a NET profit.

You would probably laugh at the number of caps I am thinking about for whole house storage, but I will be running a test at the end of this month with 20 caps 6.8 farads, 18 volts to replace my car battery... I have seen similar systems frequently on YouTube, so wanted to give it a try... much less expensive than batteries, but not long lasting, unless you have a large number of them.... (3-5 days by my calculations).

Yes... storage of power is necessary since my energy usage varies... I have a couple solar panels now to charge batteries, but I don't like solar because it is not generating power 24 hours daily and because they are expensive. I can get 1320' (quarter mile) of aluminum wire, 17 gauge for less than $25 and a lot less in bulk. Simple fractal designs, if they end up working, take up much less space. I have a design to get that 200+' antenna I built into a 2' x '2 x 4" area, which I will try this summer (if this first antenna can generate anything on the roof). If I get to that point, I may try the same design with the full quarter mile of wire to see what I can capture (hopefully proportional to the length of wire). None of this will happen if I can't get more energy per cost of wire than per cost of solar panels. In any case, you can see that I have a good start on a solar dryer (clothes line)! lol

I doubt you will find a correlation to anything in your environment

My goal is to capture free energy 24 hours daily. Scientific study is just a means to the goal at this point. I think that once I find something that is "viable" and begin to use it, I can document the solar winds, etc. and only then try to find a correlation. It is definitely of interest! I can either capture energy or not at this stage... It's either viable or not...

Good Luck!

Thanks!

[thx1138]

...which I will try this summer (if this first antenna can generate anything on the roof).

Be careful leaving exposed ends on the roof. Your connection to ground turns any exposed end into a Franklin style lightning rod. Make sure the ends are insulated. Otherwise, it could become a very, very expensive experiment.

I can document the solar winds, etc.

Think of the solar wind as a cloud between the energy source and your antenna. It isn't constant. It has varying densities. It will have the same affect as a cloud passing between the sun and a solar photovoltaic panel.

[tgraca]

Many thanks, Jes. I've been working on this but had very poor results. That is apparently due to my location - 187Ft (57m) above sea level and very humid climate about 50 miles from the Gulf of Mexico. Our predominate winds are from the southeast which blows moisture from the gulf into our area. So I guess this is not for me. I was only able to get 4.7mV to 6.8mV with very slow charge rates over a week of readings and different weather conditions.

Some notes for others:
The document I saw about this specified wire in SWG gauges, not AWG gauges and they are different. #6 AWG is somewhat equivalent to #8 SWG. The document specifies 4mm diameter but #6 AWG is 4.11538mm. There is no direct equivalent to #8 SWG. Wire Gauge Reference Table

I couldn't find a #6 AWG solid that was insulated. Here in America that is usually bare and used for grounding. #6 AWG and larger that are insulated are usually stranded. Is stranded useable as is or maybe use a larger wire of stranded? How critical is the insulation on the ground side? Could one use heat shrink tubing to insulate a solid wire? Would that be sufficient? Possibly wrap the heat shrink overlaps with electrical tape to help keep moisture out.

It would be helpful if someone with the knowledge of how this works could go through the specs and convert them to U.S. and resolve discrepancies to what is available in U.S.

The photos at https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=5b0f8...1166&sc=photos are very helpful also.

The document I have only shows ground rods but photos show a large ground plate. I suspect that makes a huge difference.

Excellent idea for spark gap.

12 AWG is easy to find as in the US and is usually insulated. 2 strands of 12 AWG running to your ground offers the same mass as 1 stand of 6 AWG. Check your "Wire Gauge Reference Table" and run D * pi * 2 to check, but that's what I came up with. Also, most quality speaker wire is 14 AWG and 3 strands of that wire going to your wire actually offers more conductivity than 6 AWG... use what you have...

[citfta]

Wire guage cross section area

I was an electrician for over 30 years and I am sure you are way off on your comparison of wire gauges. I looked up the cross section area of number 6 and number 12 wire and found the following.

Number 6 AWG has a cross section area of 26.3 Kcmil or 13.3 square mm.
Number 12 AWG has a cross section area of 6.53 Kcmil or 3.31 square mm

So you can see two number 12 wires are no where near the same as a number 6 wire. It would take four number 12 wires to equal a number 6 wire.

Respectfully, Carroll

[tgraca]

I was an electrician for over 30 years and I am sure you are way off on your comparison of wire gauges. I looked up the cross section area of number 6 and number 12 wire and found the following.

Number 6 AWG has a cross section area of 26.3 Kcmil or 13.3 square mm.
Number 12 AWG has a cross section area of 6.53 Kcmil or 3.31 square mm

So you can see two number 12 wires are no where near the same as a number 6 wire. It would take four number 12 wires to equal a number 6 wire.

Respectfully, Carroll

I need stop doing math before I go to sleep... especially after a long day of work while recovering from a cold... My point was to figure area of your available wire's diameter to match your desired gauge... tt(R)sq... ugg...

I was struggling with getting my grounds in place yesterday. Finally had a nice day... got up to 63 Deg. F and I was using a rotohammer to push some copper pipe into the ground. Got one in 3.5' and another 5'... not good. Must be hitting rocks... I may just push a bunch of short pieces in different areas and hopefully the mass of the metal spread over a larger area will compensate for the depth of the ground...

Has anyone tested this?

[thx1138]

Short ground rods

I may just push a bunch of short pieces in different areas and hopefully the mass of the metal spread over a larger area will compensate for the depth of the ground...

Has anyone tested this?

The energy you are picking up in the antenna is a polarized charge. That's why Jes Ascanius says to insulate everything above the circuit board. That's to prevent the charge you acquire in the antena and move via the wire connected to it from neutralizing with charges in the air. I found that it also applies to everything below the circuit board and even into the ground a short distance.

I pulled my ground rods, insulated the top couple of feet with shrink wrap, and reinstalled them. It gave me a small improvement. At the small energy levels of this system, however, every improvement counts.

Here's how I determined that: I was taking readings during the spring and got back to it again in July. Nothing in the installation had changed during that time but the readings were substantially lower in July. After some head scratching the only thing that I could see that was different was that during July the sun was directly overhead and, since my system was installed on the north side of the house, it was now in direct sunlight while it had been shaded by the house during the spring. I did a little research and found that x-rays, gamma, rays, etc. will penetrate the soil somewhat and even rocks to a slight degree. That's when I insulated the top part of the ground rods and got an improvement.

I haven't tested multiple ground rods but the above will be relevant to your "bunch of short pieces". They need to reach as far into the ground as possible to pick up the charges below the penetration level of the sun's rays. And the deeper they are, the more surface area will be exposed to the soil so the more charge you will acquire.

[ewizard]

I need stop doing math before I go to sleep... especially after a long day of work while recovering from a cold... My point was to figure area of your available wire's diameter to match your desired gauge... tt(R)sq... ugg...

I was struggling with getting my grounds in place yesterday. Finally had a nice day... got up to 63 Deg. F and I was using a rotohammer to push some copper pipe into the ground. Got one in 3.5' and another 5'... not good. Must be hitting rocks... I may just push a bunch of short pieces in different areas and hopefully the mass of the metal spread over a larger area will compensate for the depth of the ground...

Has anyone tested this?

It took me a good hour hammering an 8 foot copper coated steel ground pipe to get it all the way into the ground with only a few inches above ground. It can be a real workout but it's usually not rock that stops you as much as tight packed soil. One way to make it easier is to get a 6 or 8 foot piece of PVC pipe and hook it up to a garden hose. Put a small nozzle or cap on the end with a small hole, turn on the water full blast and you can dig down easily with the water doing the work. Easy to go 8 feet in most soils. Then drop in your ground pipe and back fill or hammer it in right next to your water hole and it will go in easy due to the muddy soil you just created.

[wrtner]

It took me a good hour hammering an 8 foot copper coated steel ground pipe to get it all the way into the ground with only a few inches above ground.

This problem keeps cropping up with electrical aerial/earth systems.

I wonder if it is possible to get an auger drill bit of sufficient length or hire one for an afternoon? It will be difficult to use.

[tgraca]

Grounds...

This problem keeps cropping up with electrical aerial/earth systems. I wonder if it is possible to get an auger drill bit of sufficient length or hire one for an afternoon? It will be difficult to use.

Had a nice day today (finally), but didn't get a chance to work with my grounds... I did, however, visit an electrician friend of mine last week, and he thinks that multiple grounds, positioned vertical or horizontal, have about the same effect... according to him, the mass combined with the depth is what is counts, so multiple grounds will probably work fine... I will work with this premise.

This reminds me of Eric Dollard's post on the Alexanderson system, which uses an interesting array of grounds. See Eric's posts starting at:
http://www.energeticforum.com/eric-d...tml#post201300

and Ernst F. W. Alexanderson's patent 1360167 for images of his ground arrays.

[tgraca]

PVC pipe / garden hose dig...

It took me a good hour hammering an 8 foot copper coated steel ground pipe to get it all the way into the ground with only a few inches above ground. It can be a real workout but it's usually not rock that stops you as much as tight packed soil. One way to make it easier is to get a 6 or 8 foot piece of PVC pipe and hook it up to a garden hose. Put a small nozzle or cap on the end with a small hole, turn on the water full blast and you can dig down easily with the water doing the work. Easy to go 8 feet in most soils. Then drop in your ground pipe and back fill or hammer it in right next to your water hole and it will go in easy due to the muddy soil you just created.

I am going to go with multiple grounds and hope I can find a place that gets at least one into the ground deep... I don't have the tools necessary to do this, but have seen DYI well drillers use a similar technique, which seems very effective. Thanks for the idea! I will keep that in mind.

[tgraca]

I haven't tested multiple ground rods, but the above will be relevant to your "bunch of short pieces". They need to reach as far into the ground as possible to pick up the charges below the penetration level of the sun's rays. And the deeper they are, the more surface area will be exposed to the soil so the more charge you will acquire.

From what I have read, others seem to agree with this... I would like to replicate things exactly as specified, but always end up with issues like not being able to get the grounds in deep enough... I love LidMotor's replications! He always seems to run into this, but then make a few modifications, gets things to work, and then shows something new and interesting! I can only hope that I can use my limitations to come up with something new and interesting! Thanks for the valuable insights! (yet again!)

[cat-tito]

Hi all
I am new in the foro and I want to share my experiment with all you, sorry if my english is not good enought
I live in Madrid (Spain) and I have made the Ascanius radiant collector 2 years ago but the config is a little changed, I have builded a variable capacitor and connected it in paralell, between antena and earth, this give me a little more of gain.
When I built the antenna, cable of 1,5 mm diameter, was too long to pick it up and is not left lying on the floor I did a coil on a PVC pipe 11cm diameter, about 80 turns, I could happily see that this gave me a slight voltage gain as well.
I get only about 3 volts with 5 modules in paralell and a capacitor in the output (output volts are the same with 1 module or 5 but intensity is higher), I have tried with several capacitors between 4800uF to 27000 uf, the 27000uF capacitors charge in 1 hour +/-. I have connected a joule thief in the output and I can drive 27 leds (Leds look less with 27000uf capacitor with a flashing frecuency about 15/20 times per second if the capacitor is smaller the frequency is higher but lower brightness), the volts drop at 370 mv when joule thief is connected but it work fine, leds flashing. I have modified the joule thief adding a potentiometer (with this I can regular flashing of the leds) it is connected between output + of Ascanius circuit and the transistor base of joule thief, if not the volts rises and capacitor discharge very fast and leds lights strong but I need to wait the capacitor charge again.
If I disconnect the Leds and connect a capacitor, 27000 uF, this is charged up 8 volts, but loading is slow... With this circuit I have been able to charge a button cell from 0,6 v to 1,3 v.
You can watch a video in next link,

captador energia mas joule thief2 - YouTube

and let me know if you want more details, it is working during 2 years.

I am checking other radiant circuit, it gives 20 v in the output without load, no joule thief in the output, charge a capacitor, 27000uF, up 20/22 v, but I need 3 days. I'm looking for ways charge them more quickly and discharge the stored energy in a larger condenser and then another... if I connect a battery the volts drops and it does not charge, maybe with Arduino...

I wait for your comments.

[tgraca]

Thanks for sharing!

You can watch a video in next link, captador energia mas joule thief2 - YouTube and let me know if you want more details, it is working during 2 years.

- nice job! Thanks for sharing! I would like to see your antenna and get more info on your ground! -t

[cat-tito]

- nice job! Thanks for sharing! I would like to see your antenna and get more info on your ground! -t

Antenna is a long wire, 35/40 meters including coil, 1.5 mm in diameter, down from the roof to the garage and the coil is located about 7 meters before the connection to the circuit. The earth is a copper rod about 2.5 cm in diameter and 2.5 m long stuck in the ground, in the garden.

You can find attached a photo of the coil