Soil Remineralization

[adam ant]

I am sorry that I was away for so long. I had a major unfortunate meltdown and slowly building back up.

bug/pest control is very simple... mint/catnip/marigolds/onions/basil/oregano/
simply use herbs in between and around your garden. they are needed anyways, just utilize their potency towards your advantage.

another remedy is diatom earth. (the safe kind)

also marigolds for bigger pests like rabbits.

Isreal is now using a form of sea salt to replenish their lands. the once dead land is now selling flowers to holland....

[Aaron]

diatomaceous earth and boric acid

Welcome back Adam Ant, been a while!

I totally forgot about diatomaceous earth. I have a
box of that and I use it together with boric acid powder
that has cockroach pheremones, etc... in it for ants.
Don't need it for my garden but in some places by my sidewalk
and driveway, there are some serious ant problems and
I sprinkle both of them along their trail and all over the holes.

The dirt here is really sand land with lots of termites and ants,
but the diatom earth and boric acid works well for a little while
then they're back. But I prefer having to use that stuff
occasionally instead of spraying chemicals on my property.

[HiggsBoson]

WantFreeEnergy
You said in your post that you might be in charge of an orchard - good news
If the orchard has been dependent on chemicals for an extended period the soil will more than likely be low in micro-organisms, the kind needed for quality organic growth. It will take some time for them to regenerate but compost teas, particularly Actively Aerated Compost Teas (AACT) will be a fast track getting the soil back in shape, and can also be sprayed on foliage.
Rock dust in fine grades does work quite quickly, but in an established orchard where it can't be tilled in, it may take a while to become fully active.
The action of rock dust is cumulative and can take a few years to become really apparent. So expect to have problems especialy in the first year.
Digging it in prior to planting is usually the best method but not possible in your case.
Fruit trees can handle spot tilling (not with a rototiller) ie digging small patches and adding rock dust and compost around the dripline of the trees, and this is a fast way to get it to the rootzone.The trees actually benefit from spotted holes as they get a burst of new rootgrowth and corresponding foliage and fruit, but if you hit any large roots move a bit and try again.
Spot till and spread the dust on the surface as well.
An excellent book on microrganisms in soil is called Teaming with Microbes and the methods it recommends (AACT) go hand in hand with remineralizing with rock dust as rock dust is perfect microbe food.
If the orchard is a commercial concern and someones livelyhood is dependent on it, maybe a 3 year plan would be more appropriate,add the rockdust, build the soil and taper the sprays off gradually and experiment with organic pest control until you have it figured out.
The orchard is largely dependent on the sprays because of years of decline in the soil and it will take a few years to build the soil back up (and the trees immunity).
Don't expect an easy ride, growing fruit is hard work and if other orchards nearby use sprays the bugs may just choose to eat yours.
I don't want to break your heart but I think 1 year is not long enough to do away with sprays.
Organic growers are a helpfull bunch so try talking to someone who has converted an orchard, Look on the web or even try asking questions at a local farmers market.
All that said I think it is a noble cause to regenerate land and produce something without chemicals.

[sucahyo]

I've just recently started experimenting with Himilayan rock salt and celtic sea salt, It seems perfectly logical to me but others seem to think I'll overdose the plants with salt, I'm a bit weird so I tend to listen to results more than doubting thomases.

I think you should wait one or two years after continuous use before you draw conclusion. The reason for why NPK look promising because it fertilize the land for 1 or two years before the imbalance cause the land to dry dead. Getting good result on the first year is not always a good sign.


There are herbal pesticide made from fruit juice in case pesticide needed.

Agree that healthy plant need much less intervention from us. I only put copper vortex maker on the water hose and after a year now, there is no sick flower anymore. Live better than neighboor garden that use NPK and other chemical.

[HiggsBoson]

Good point sucahyo
Things do take time to show any problems thats why I've started my experiments in a closed hydroponic system with a growing medium of coir (cocpeat) mixed with rock dust and sand.
I only use a very weak solution of sea salt approx. 1/2 what's recommended, and use a weekly dose of Actively Aerated Compost Tea.
There no signs of deficiency as of yet and I have eathworms growing in a filter box on the catchment side of the system.
If the worms die I will suspect a build up of salt.
It's only 4 months old but the worms are multiplying very well.
My hope is to make a simple system that is cheap and does not require expensive test equipment.
The sea salt (soul) solution is more of a trace element boost than the primary source of nutrient.
But as you said time will tell.

[theremart]

Which Rock Dust.

I was recommended this rock dust.

Glacial Rock Dust (50 lb)


20 dollars for the dust, and 35.00 for shipping so 55 dollars for for 50 lbs of rock dust.

My target is to aid the bacteria in my compost heap and to help feed the two worm bins I have setup. I am thinking since I don't intend on building a huge garden but do self watering containers this should last me for some time.

I guess I have heard it works well, but wanted to get others feed back on this.

Also Aaron, do you use silver with your solid state bedini to make a pesitcide? I am thinking of using compost tea to spray on the plants from the earthworm castings..

Cheers!

[Aaron]

soil fertilization

That dust looks like a good product. Just depends on what you want to pay.
If there are local gravel pits, they may just give you some fine mesh gravel
screenings for free. I haven't tried this myself but have read that others
have tried it.

I'm looking at doing a worm bin next or just putting them right on my garden.
Someone at a popular earthworm farm I talked to said they'd just go deeper
when it is cold enough and will surface when it warms up. My concern was
killing them off from the cold winter temps.

They can also double in population in 3-6 months. 10 worms per square
foot is what he recommended. I found some 1 pound containers of worms
for around $21-25 - should have about 1000 worms in a pound - the skinny
red wigglers. Not sure if I'll go with those or the larger ones that are about
250 per pound.

[theremart]

RE: Rock Dust

Thanks Aaron,

I am just looking for a proven source. I guess the goal is to get minerals to our body that we can digest and use. I am wondering why fight so hard to get it into the soil then into our bodies? Why not just buy the organic minerals that are easy to absorb and eat them and be done with it, along with eating the right types of food that complement them.


Advice on buying your worms, I just got a pound of worms and one thing you want to think about is the heat. Worms can die a quick death in extreme heat so you might want to choose a seller that is close to you.

From what I have read they continue to multiply till they fill the capacity of your container, know thing i have divided the worms into two bins and hope to have the doubling effect in 3 months. I am learning much about what is too much water, and fruit flies can be a problem, but slowly I am getting past these problems.

If I was to put these worms outside they would die quickly as all the soil is sand, they would dry out about instantly, then the army of fire ants would have a feast.

Anyhow, they have survived me for about 3 weeks now and slowly I am getting better of taking care of them, I have found they LOVE cardboard and do have a fair sized appetite.

Anyhow, thanks for the input Aaron.

[Aaron]

worms, minerals

Hi Mart,

Liquid Ionic minerals are the most absorbable. I used to own a health food
store and sold a lot of just about every supplement imaginable. I actually
told my customers they didn't need any of my supplements if they ate food
that had the right nutrition to begin with. Lack of minerals in the food are
probably the #1 problem with empty food in this country at least. Americans
probably are the most malnourished people in the world for the amount of
food they eat - simply no minerals in the food.

Consuming minerals in food with the natural ratios of vitamins, enzymes, etc...
that come along with it is how nature intends us to ingest minerals instead
of from supplements.

It isn't that hard to put it in soil.

10 tons of rock dust per acre of farmland is good for 10-15 years without
ever needing to add any other "fertilizer". It can be done 1 ton per acre
that lasts 1-2 years at a time so depends on how much you want to
put up ahead of time. Of course that can be broken down to smaller plots
like my garden is about 4-5 feet wide and about 20 feet long.

My regular soil is very very sandy. However, I have added quite a bit
of compost, bat guano, etc... over the last couple years including sea agri,
rock dust, biochar, etc... and it holds water much better than the rest of
my non-garden soil. I'll probably put 1/2 the worms on my garden anyway
and just make sure it is moist enough and the other half, I might use on
a 3 tray kitchen bin system for kitchen produce scraps.

I would hope the companies would honor their guarantee on "live" worms
when they arrive. There are few a couple hundred miles away but is
probably a good idea to order nearby.

Do you have any details on your worm bins? I've been looking more into
the mini-worm farm concept for the last few months but haven't settled
on anything yet. I also need the worms in the actual garden to help
carry the biochar/fungus/etc... deeper into the soil just like the terra preta.

[theremart]

RE: worm bins.

I have been watching hours of videos on youtube picking out ideas for worm bins.

Google for this document, it seems like an awesome guide for picking the right food / conditions for worms.

Vermiculture_FarmersManual_gm.pdf


I used this method of creating my bins, it was cheap fast and easy.

YouTube - Setting Up a Basic Worm Bin

I would change only to add plenty more holes, I used the 1/8th in drill bit on mine and doubled the amount of holes. I also picked up some garden lime to help with balancing the ph of the bin.

I am still a newbie at this, but so far the worms are dong good. I have a fruit fly problem but I am gaining ground on that as I took a fruit fly trap I found on a worm bin site, all you do is take a banana peal and put it in a small zip lock bag. Then take like an 1/8 th inch drill bit and poke holes about 1/3 the way down the bag. Remove all other items that the fruit fly may be attracted to as you can in the room ( just put your fruit in the fridge ) then put this bag out. The fruit flies love bananas and will be find their way into the small holes. I also have used vinegar in times past, but bananas seem to be their favorite.

Cheers!

P.S. I just found this site.

DIY Worm Bin - Finish it - vermicomposters.com

The tip on air is very important I think I will be doing this mod to my bin.

[Aaron]

worms

Thanks Mart for the doc - looks like a good one, just what I need!

I'll check out the vids.

[jeanna]

east coast - west coast

Hi Mart,

I know you are in the south on the east coast, and I also once lived on the east coast, and I would like to add that you have soil that is naturally very high in minerals and nutrients.
It is necessary to have the minerals added out here on the west coast, because the soil is not as full of minerals here.

I have no numbers to cite, but basically the soil east of the appalachians is about 24 feet deep and full of sea bed minerals. There is a lot of iodine in the soil and of course calcium and magnesium.
It might be worth while paying for the test or at least researching the tests.

I just know most of the soils in the interior are depleted by farming practices and the soils out west were never very good to begin with.

My bet is that your worms will love it (if you can keep them from cooking) and your worm compost will be wonderful and very full of minerals.

jeanna

P.S. If you do any testing, I would love to know the results!

[Savvypro]

Removing the salt from sea salt

When I was looking in to the sea minerals area, I cam across an article about a guy in Australia, who became interested in the work of Maynard Murray after reading Sea Energy Agriculture (<-- this last bit (reading the book) may not be 100% correct, as I'm quoting from memory and not from my notes).

Anyway, in the article - he stated that he had setup a plant located near a remote area of the great barrier reef (I'm guessing that he meant remote from contamination by humans/industry/waste etc.).

The plant was used to process and pack the sea minerals (which were still in liquid form), after they had been removed from the collection and evaporation pools.

He stated that the sea water was collected in one pool, where it would stay for a short period of time - during it’s stay the solution would concentrate naturally via evaporation using sun light. After the first phase, the solution would be moved (pumped) to another pool where it would concentrate even more via evaporation, before going into the plant to be processed and packed.


The section that I found very interesting was also one of the vaguest. The guy who the article was about, stated in response to a question about the salt contents of his products. That during the concentrate process (via natural evaporation, using sun light), the solution would get to a point where the salt content could be removed and the concentration would be lowered to about 2% of the solution.

Thinking about it now, it seams the process may be similar to one I saw during a documentary, which had a section on how the Romans extracted sea salt on the East cost of England.

The process shown on the show used a very little terracotta tub (scaled down to about 10 cm long) which was filled with sea water, sunlight was used to heat up the water. But a fire would have been used, as the Romans mass extracted the salt year round - I think they used sun light because they couldn’t get permission to light a fire to do the experiment where they were filming.

As they were filming salt began to form on the surface of the water, the presenter would use small wooden spoon to scoop up the crystals and place them in a small tub. Because of the way they did the experiment, it took a long time to collect what looked like a couple of grams of salt - thankfully they edited out the waiting around.


Anyone know if the solar evaporation method I described above could be used to reduce the amount of Sodium chloride in the sea water.

If it would, than it could be the solution to the problem of using straight sea water to “water” plants.

[Aaron]

Sea Agri

Straight seawater has done wonders for farms that got flooded by
the ocean. Usually, everyone thought it would damage everything but the
following year after sea water floods, they had the biggest crops ever.

There is a company that sells mineral additives for agriculture that comes
from sea water and I have added a few pounds to my plot:
SeaAgri

It will do the same as rock dust but is more concentrated so less is needed
per acre but of course the cost is a bit higher per amount.

I posted some other info on sea agri in this agriculture forum somewhere.

[Savvypro]

I should clarify the basis of my question.

Using sea minerals like SeaAgri (which are "mined" at the same location Maynard Murray collected his supply from), is OK for occasional use (as in yearly use).

But when you start using them on a continuous basis - for example using straight sea water as a substitute for fresh water. In areas where there is no fresh water or access to a desalination plant.

From what I've read, about experiments which have been done to find crops that can be grown in sea water. Normal crops will grow fine for a bit. But then will be killed off because of salt saturation. The experiments tend to focus on finding species similar to the normal farmed crops, but are naturally found in areas with high salt content (e.g. found wild by the coast).

Reducing the salt content down to 2% would make a lot of difference when it come to growing normal crops in sea water.


On a different note:

The company I mentioned in my previous post is seamineral.com