Underground horticulture

[David Barclay]

It seems almost amazing to me that although plants grow deep underground with grow lights, soil and water there is still no official explanation as to why the rate of growth increases with depth underground.

Plants grown deep underground, say at 1500 meters, grow at an accelerated rate relative to the same plant species grown at surface.

For example, pine seedlings germinated and grown at the 1500 meter level underground develop into the equivalent of 2 year old seedlings in roughly 4 months and once transplanted to surface sites return to a normal rate of growth while demonstrating an increased resistance to various types of fungus and disease.

This is equally true of other plant types and there are at least two underground horticultural nurseries in Canada.

But no explanation as to why, which I find a bit odd.

[Aaron]

gravity interaction?

That's interesting - never heard about that.

Gravity is different 1500 feet down. Maybe less to work against?

[Vortex]

Yes, very curious.
One would expect to see the reverse is true at higher elevations above sea level.
David, do you know the names of these underground nurseries or
have some links you could share with us about underground horticultural which you speak of?

[Aaron]

gravity seeds - space vegetables

Or more to work against.

In space, the seeds have changes that grow bigger plants when down on Earth.

[anut]

One possible explanation:

CO2 is denser than air. As the altitude decreases, the CO2 concentration becomes higher. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that keeps the ambient warm. Warm environment favors plant growth. Plants also need CO2 for photosynthesis.

In fact, many studies have shown that CO2 concentrations well above ambient can benefit plant growth.

[David Barclay]

Yes, One is at the old Creighton Mine in Sudbury Ontario at the 1500 meter level and another one is at the nickel mine in Flin Flon Manitoba at about 670 meters down.

Gravity does not decrease with depth in a mine as it is virtually a hole in the ground, so the external dynamics are simply directed inward.

Gets a little complicated if you are not keeping up with gravity studies.

There is an actual energy increase with depth underground, if you consider an underlying force of energy sustaining and perpetuating the form and function of all physical structure.

But despite everything else you can grow a 2 year old pine seedling at 1500 meters in a few short months, which when you stop and think about it is absolutely astounding.

They also grow roses and carnations down there and they are gorgeous with very distinct vibrant colors.

So the underground environment might have some health benefits as well.

You might expect something like this to be front page news, especially for greens, but no such luck. Even the Canadian dept. of agriculture will brush it off and you just try to find even one peer reviewed paper on the subject.

Very strange situation.

No there are no high CO2 levels underground either.

The only attempt at an explanation I've heard is that there is no wind or bugs down there...a bit silly actually.

There used to be a web site for the Creighton Mine but since I started asking questions about it the company took the site down.

The Creighton Mine is the same mine site where they are attempting to capture neutrinos at the 3000 meter level.....so all the PhD's who visit the vat at the bottom of the mine have to pass the 1500 meter level to get there and yet the nursery is virtually unknown.

It's been in operation for many years and produces vast numbers of seedlings annually, as well as the roses and carnations.

There is a steady increase in temperature underground so at the 1500 meter level it is a steady 23 degrees C year round.

The underground heat comes from the rock, which in turn warms the air.

Very cozy down there.

And it should be noted that the increase in growth is directly related to the depth underground....I want to see a nursery at the 3000 meter level...any takers?

At 3000 meters the year round temperature is close to 30 degrees C, which is quite warm. Bananas maybe?

Imagine growing bananas, from start to finish in under 3 months? Wow!

What a place for growing bean sprouts.

[Vortex]

This supports ideas some people have had about
the size of dinosaurs is related to the expanding earth theory.
Mushrooms use to be 25-30 feet tall, ya know?
Take a smaller earth, meaning the ground-level was at bottom of the mine
level at one time in the expanding earth theory having less gravity and hmmm

[alsy]

Very interesting.

I have no idea if it is contributing in some way, but Atmospheric pressure decreases as altitude increases. Atmospheric pressure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am curious about the temperature at different times of the day. DO you know how much variation there is in temperature over a 24 hour period?
I am wondering if that steady warm temperature might be a key part of the accelerated growth. Compared to above ground growing, where it cools down overnight.

[terence123]

minerals?

I haven't read anything besides this thread, but how about minerals? do they use the available rocks and earth from below? It might have a lot of beneficial minerals for plant growth. They might be transferred by air and condens on the leaves...!?

[future pather]

But despite everything else you can grow a 2 year old pine seedling at 1500 meters in a few short months, which when you stop and think about it is absolutely astounding.

They also grow roses and carnations down there and they are gorgeous with very distinct vibrant colors.

So the underground environment might have some health benefits as well.
. . .

The only attempt at an explanation I've heard is that there is no wind or bugs down there...a bit silly actually.

Aren't bugs necessary for plant life?

More likely that that, it is that they are protected from an acidic environment. There are gov studies about what acid rain does to buildings. It's just logic to consider that living things are effected as well, probably more significantly so.

Auto emissions, cell phone radiation, etc. When our rain is known to be acidic it's obvious we are out of balance.

XO Jessica

[David Barclay]

Temperatures underground don't change whether its night or day or winter or summer.

I don't know why mushrooms grew so large, but most everything did at one time.

Makes what we have today look fairly small.

When they first tested lunar samples back in 69 & 70 they discovered that a tiny amount of finely pulverized moon material caused plants to grow at a increase rate of growth.

This powder was mixed in solution with water and poured onto the soil in which the seeds had been planted, but no explanation was offered or has since surfaced.

My interest in underground horticulture stems from the effects produced by the lunar samples...as the lunar material also caused radical genetic deformities and cancerous growths.

However this is something that NASA now denies having happened, which is understandable if you can't give a clear explanation as to why this should have occurred.

They also discovered that some of the lunar material extracted from a shallow drill hole on the moon killed very healthy bacteria and again there was and is no explanation. This was reported in a 1970 Time article.

The plants grown underground do not suffer any ill effects, which is an interesting clue in respect to the lunar sample testing, but a bit long winded for a single post.

[David Barclay]

Underground horticulture has unknown potential, but it produces very healthy plants.

The soil in which the plants are cultivated is brought from the surface, as is the water and grow lights are employed.

But even plants need their rest, so they are allowed a minimum of 8 hours of darkness during each 24 hour period.

Here's where it gets interesting...if the rate of growth is determined by the depth underground and the deeper the site the faster the plants grow this suggests that the rate of growth can be manipulated through a process of modulation if you can determine the driving force involved.

At the present time there is a plan to grow food crops on the moon, at the experimental level, in the hope that a manned base would be self sufficient.

Mustard seeds will be the first test plants, which require 14 days to complete their life cycle, from seed to seed. They will be grown in a self contained container and not directly exposed to the lunar environment.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

And don't forget the Chinese super seeds subjected to space produce huge fruits and vegetables.

[David Barclay]

No bugs required for healthy plants, unless you are talking about pollination and that can be done with a paint brush.

I think some of you might be missing something here, because accelerated plant growth means these 2 year old seedlings become 2 year old little trees in a few short months.

So if you use the same soil and the same space you can get 6 years of tree growth in 1 year, whereas at the surface you would get 2 years of tree growth in no less than two years.

[anut]

It seems almost amazing to me that although plants grow deep underground with grow lights, soil and water there is still no official explanation as to why the rate of growth increases with depth underground.

So, what kinds of grow lights did you use?

[ImBill]

On a semi-related note, I am fascinated by the postulation that Buckminster Fuller came up with that a large globe (geodesic, of course) filled with plants would float above the earth if it was just a few degrees warmer than ambient temperature kind of like a hot air balloon. He thought that the sun's radiation would naturally make it a few degrees warmer and that all we would need to do is tether it to keep it from getting blown away. They could be used in places where no one lives, thus freeing up valuable real estate for other uses. If I remember correctly, his main impetus for doing this was to eliminate pests and pesticides from our food supply.
I'm liking the idea of this underground thing, though. If we end up in an ice age, underground is going to be the place to be. We would have to be very conscientious about replenishing the soil it would seem. It would be interesting to find out the minimum distance required for optimum growth. This would probably work well in areas that are deserts now but with flowing water underground with solar cells and/or wind generators to provide the necessary electricity.