Eric P. Dollard

[madhatter]

This is probably going to go over most heads here but I ask that those who do follow and understand this to take a moment and think about it.

Snells Law, I was thinking about the relationship of electron waves and incident angles and potential charges on the inter turn capacitance to optic waves of photons. the N factor is based on the speed of light divided by the speed of light in the denser medium. In this case it's a bit backwords but none the less it applies, although in electrostatic optics it's the charge of the field and kinetic moment that determines the angle for a particle electron, it can be modified to a wave field as well.

There has to be a relationship between the wire spacing, turns etc for capacitance and a 'phase' shift and that is where impedance arises from. from some quick back of the envelope calcs it would seem that the critical angle for complete reflection is 100 degrees, although I question this as a sin theta greater than 1 makes no sense. If we were starting from the extra coil then slowing to secondary it would give a theta less than 1. otherwise it gets into hyperbolic trig again.

I could be waaaaay out in left field here, but the i+j rotation has to be somewhere, and the N factor of optics in plasma physics fits to me, filtering out relativistic terms and modifying the equations needs to be done to see what the result is.

For those not aware, there is an interesting effect with reflected waves where at just above the critical angle there is no longer two waves refracted and reflected, a prism is a simple and prime example, the 45* angle reflects the light in whats called total reflection i.e. a 100% efficient no loss on reflection and no refraction. which means I could theoretically build a trap that endlessly reflects the waves with no losses.

just a thought I had last night. need to dig into the high energy texts I have to see what I can come up with.

[jake]

Moving on with the coil arrangement..
this is the output of the field solver for the primary and secondary coil.
Impedance matrix for frequency = 4e+006 2 x 2
Primary:
R ohms 0.0914883
+wjL +2939.15j

Mutual ohms -1.29896e-014
Mutual +wjL +1460.98j

Secondary:
R ohms 9.29463
+wjL +19590.8j

Mutual ohms -1.32672e-013
Mutual +wjL +1460.76j

inputting the values into another sheet to calculate some more numbers. keep you all posted. Does help to see what's going on though, conservation of energy police will be around shortly...and this is data from MIT, the establishment

Any chance of getting an excel calculator to do that?

Seriously,

any chance?

[jake]

Does anyone know wny?

Copper is the best cost effective material. I did build a star radial ground, soil conductivity where I am is really good, however even still with a 20' dia 18 star radial the impedance varies between 300ohm into the mega ohms. short of dopping the soil or laying down a bed of bentonite it's not going to get much better.

large grids work really good too, copper mesh is pricy and putting that down is esp invasive.

metals oxidize and the oxidation layer will create more impedance, steels are the worst. This gets into free valance electrons and reactive oxides, stick to copper, and if you can do it hedge your bets and dope the soil with bentonite that will get you a really great ground.

Anyone:

Tesla mentions using length after length of iron. I understand where 'Mad' is coming from with the skin effect and outer layer oxidizing but what was Tesla thinking when he used iron? Am I missing something, like he filled the pipe with molten copper or ran rods of copper down the pipe after he hit depth?

[wyndbag]

This particular blog continues to be a fantastic educational experience for me.
Dollard is brilliant....I am in no position to judge whether he is a genius or not.
There are some really smart guys on this thing and I appreciate the sharing.

I came into this interest more than 20 years ago and it was only recently rekindled from watching a utube video of a Stan Deyo lecture. Deyo was talking about John Trumps work with the attractive power of metal plates at changing voltages in a vacuum. The light went on for me. It seemed that with a properly designed setup, an experimenter could pull energy directly from the vacuum using high voltage plus some sort of capacitive set up.

The problem seems to be engineering the setup. I learned here that it is very complicated to factor in the combinations of capacitance and inductance and make a high voltage setup work efficiently. I do not have a science and engineering background. It only dawned on me this week that
the equations that scientists use for doing this stuff applies to any and all spaces. Suddenly this whole field seems fraught with complications.

What prompted me to write was Madhatters comment on Snells law of refraction and reflection. I think there is something there but its only an intuition. Keep digging... keep talking... this is a good project. And I hope Mr. Dollard comes back again.

[madhatter]

Any chance of getting an excel calculator to do that?

Seriously,

any chance?

Not really, I did do a calc using alot of equations for inductance and capacitance and integrated the field it's reaaaly close for a single coil, but not effective for mutual inductance at a specific frequency. the MIT field solver handles this faster and better then me slogging thru it. It's leap yrs ahead of spice and other quick field solvers, it also I think better applies here as I'm adapting a quantum field solver for semi conductor electronics.

[jake]

Skin depth


By jastermake at 2012-04-30 not to scale

Eric gives the equation 'gs=10/sqrt(F)=skin depth in inches'. This translates to '25.4/sqrt(F)=skin depth in cm' multiply by 2 and get the max solid conductor diameter 51/sqrt(F) in cm. Or 2 times radius of skin depth(fig 1)

He also gives max hollow conductor wall thickness = 25/sqrt(F) in cm. (fig 2)
Which does not make sense to me.

Should the max hollow conductor wall thickness be 51/sqrt(F)? (fig 3)

I am starting to make the primary capacitor and this would help with the active volume match.

Also does anyone have any new information on this skindepth equation?

[madhatter]

Eric gives the equation 'gs=10/sqrt(F)=skin depth in inches'. This translates to '25.4/sqrt(F)=skin depth in cm' multiply by 2 and get the max solid conductor diameter 51/sqrt(F) in cm. Or 2 times radius of skin depth(fig 1)

He also gives max hollow conductor wall thickness = 25/sqrt(F) in cm. (fig 2)
Which does not make sense to me.

Should the max hollow conductor wall thickness be 51/sqrt(F)? (fig 3)

I am starting to make the primary capacitor and this would help with the active volume match.

Also does anyone have any new information on this skindepth equation?

I had to dig thru and figure that one out. There is a 'fits all' eq for active cross section. Sigma= 0.066/sqrt of F. this is for metric units. Imperial units is 2.6 x 10^3/sqrt F.

This is different from the depth of current at 37%.

[jake]

I had to dig thru and figure that one out. There is a 'fits all' eq for active cross section. Sigma= 0.066/sqrt of F. this is for metric units. Imperial units is 2.6 x 10^3/sqrt F.

This is different from the depth of current at 37%.

So where does the 24.5 come from in Eric's formula? That is a BIG difference, 25.4 vs. 0.066 over the sqrt of F.

[madhatter]

I can only assume it was a conversion from inch to mm. The problem with skin effect is that it is not linear across the frequencies, it varies at either end of the spectrum so a one size fits all equation is not possible. the equation used is based on the frequency.

also some equations are the ratio, some the depth, some the cross section in circular mills, and one for depth at a percentage of the current.
I can dig up further reference material if needed.

[Nhopa]

Skin Depth revisited

Looking at some of the available information on the INTERNET, I found the following that will hopefully allow us to come to a consensus on what equation to use for Skin Depth (SD) calculations.
1. daycounter.com - It defines SD as the distance below the surface of a conductor where the current density has fallen to 1/e or ~ 37% of its value at the surface.
2. enotes.com/topic/Skin_effect - Just a historic note that Horace Lamb was the first to describe the Skin Effect in 1883. In 1885 it was Oliver Heaviside who generalized it to conductors of any shape. According to this website, over 98% of current will flow within a layer of 4 times the SD from the surface.
3. microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/rulesofthumb.cfm - According to this website one of the rule of thumb is that always plan on providing at least 5 SD of low-loss conductor. They come up with a formula for SD=6.5/SQRT of F (cm), F - Cps
4. nessengr.com/techdata/skin/skindepth - The formula given for
SD=.066/SQRT of F (m), F - Cps. So in cm SD=6.6/SQRT of F (cm)
5. daycounter.com - It gives SD= 2837/SQRT of F (mills), this is the same as SD=2.837/SQRT of F (inch) or SD=7.2/SQRT of F (cm)
6. circuitcalculator.com - For copper at 100 degree Centigrade it gives
SD=7.6/SQRT of F (cm)
7. rfcafe.com - It gives SD=6.54/SQRT of F (cm)
8. midnightscience.com - It gives SD=2.6/SQRT of F (mills) with F in MCps and that is the same as SD=6.6/SQRT of F (cm), F - Cps

We can see that most of the SD values given are from 6.5/SQRT of F to
6.6/SQRT of F, all in cm. So if we multiply this with the recommended 4 times as indicated in paragraph 2. above we get 26.4/SQRT of F. this number is very close to Eric's number of 25.4.
On the other hand we can average the six values shown above to get 6.84, multiplying this with 4 and 5 we get 27.36 and 34.2 respectively and taking the average of the two numbers we get 30.78. In turns of the maximum required solid conductor diameter we have the following choices:
either 50.8 (actually rounded to 51 by Eric), 52.8 or 61.56 times the 1/SQRT of F (cm). The difference compared to Eric's value is 3.5% or 21.1% greater diameter.
For the maximum solid conductor diameter calculation I would suggest to continue to use Eric's number of 51/SQRT of F (cm). Any comments?

[jake]

Thanks

Nhopa,

That makes a lot of sense.

So for a hollow conductor the maximum wall thickness would be 2(SD) times 4 or 5? Otherwise not all the copper would be active?

Or the current depth CD equation that Eric gave.

[Nhopa]

Skin Depth and coaxial cable

Jake:
For a conductor, where the current density has fallen to ~ 37% of the value at the surface, the Skin Depth (SD) in the radial direction is just SD as calculated. If we want the current density to fall to just 2% of the value at the surface, then we multiply the calculated SD by 4. So on the radius we have 4SD thickness and that is 8SD on the diameter. I don't see the point of going toward hollow conductor in our experiments. HF and VHF application I can see the benefit of using less metal and also be able the use the hollow conductor to circulate some sort of coolant.
I think Eric's SD of 25.1 came from multiplying a basic SD of 6 point something by 4, so in this case the maximum solid conductor diameter will be 50.2/SQRT of F (cm), or if you divide this value by 2.54, then in inches, F is in Cps.
I also found an interesting website discussing coaxial cables. You can Google it. I will omit the www because it seem to mess up my reply so the rest of it is "tumblr.com/tagged/how-do-coaxial- cables-work". I would be interested in your opinion especially as it applies if we use a flat coil of coaxial cable. Although, we would not use the center conductor, but it is in most cases copper and silver plated steel like in the RG316. I wonder if the field around the outer braded shielding would have some interaction with the core?

[jake]

Jake:
For a conductor, where the current density has fallen to ~ 37% of the value at the surface, the Skin Depth (SD) in the radial direction is just SD as calculated. If we want the current density to fall to just 2% of the value at the surface, then we multiply the calculated SD by 4. So on the radius we have 4SD thickness and that is 8SD on the diameter. I don't see the point of going toward hollow conductor in our experiments. HF and VHF application I can see the benefit of using less metal and also be able the use the hollow conductor to circulate some sort of coolant.

The use of a counduting tube in the secondary provides a couple of features. It minimizes the amount of spacing between turns in a large coil. It increases the amount of copper available to current for a given length of wire. Coaxial serves as the tube.



I think Eric's SD of 25.1 came from multiplying a basic SD of 6 point something by 4, so in this case the maximum solid conductor diameter will be 50.2/SQRT of F (cm), or if you divide this value by 2.54, then in inches, F is in Cps.

Awesome, I understand perfectly clear now.


I also found an interesting website discussing coaxial cables. You can Google it. I will omit the www because it seem to mess up my reply so the rest of it is "tumblr.com/tagged/how-do-coaxial- cables-work". I would be interested in your opinion especially as it applies if we use a flat coil of coaxial cable. Although, we would not use the center conductor, but it is in most cases copper and silver plated steel like in the RG316. I wonder if the field around the outer braded shielding would have some interaction with the core?

Yes, it will have some interaction with the core. What?? I don't know.

Extra thanks on the skin depth/current information.

[fefish]

Status report?

Hi!

Just a quick introduction of myself, as I have never posted here before (I don't want to introduce myself in the introduction thread, as I am only interested in this part of the forum).

I am pretty new in the field of tesla experiments. I am an engineering student with about a year and a half left on my studies. I consider myself open minded, while at the same time trying not to fall into naivety (in other words, you may at some point perceive me as a sceptic, but I am not, at least not a blind one). Experimentalism as a "mental state" has been with me all my life, although the money hasn't, at least not until recently. If I would succeed in contributing with something of value regarding tesla technology, my one and only plan is to share it with as many as possible, as soon as possible, and as anonymous as possible. To make this introduction somewhat complete, and to avoid possible future speculations regarding my religious views, it could be mentioned that I'm a practicing catholic.

Now to the subject of this post:

I've been reading about Tesla Coils for about a month. The more I read, the more convinced I get that there is too much in this for it to be an absolute scam/fake. However, so far I've failed in finding some kind of "complete guide" regarding the construction of a Tesla Coil, at least the one that is claimed to produce longitudinal magneto-dielectric waves (scalar waves if you like).

As I recently - believe it or not - not only received a genuine interest for the scalar waves concept from one of my teachers, but also got offered a lab room in the school, I have to know how to build a Tesla Coil, a working one. To make things even more great, I will probably be able to write my thesis on this subject. That in turn limits me kind of in time (I understand this is a BIG subject), so any "shortcuts" would be appreciated (so that I don't have to reinvent the wheel 10 times). Further, as this is a probable thesis subject, I have to do it in a scientific way, in other words, I have to do measurements that prove the existence of scalar waves, or some other "not established" phenomenon. So again, tips on how to setup measurements to detect scalar waves (and exclude the possibility of simple ionizing effects) would be greatly appreciated!

Shortly put: I would be very grateful if somebody could either link to, or write a "status report" about tesla coil experiments and their currently known results. How many experimenting paths are there (as far as I can see: energy production and energy transmission are two). What do we know about successful constructions? What problems are left to be solved? And so on.

Update:
Also, as I haven't finished my studies yet, I would appreciate if somebody could tell my what areas to prioritize while choosing courses, in order to understand the tesla experiments better.

Thanks!

/fefish

[wyndbag]

Not asking for very much. Thanks for the entry. There are some very smart and experienced posters here. I am curious as to what you receive in the way of a reply. I know that Eric Dollard himself has generously shared much of his vast experience and insight in this forum. I personally have no engineering experience. Wish I did. I envy your forturne. Good luck.