Eric Dollard

[rickinva]

Rick,

Socially defined things are not reality, they are just a predominant train of thought or an agreed view so to keep convention. What if the convention was based on spherical geometry as above where Garrett posted the page from The Art & Science of Analog Circuit Design. Pi would then be 2 and so is reality isn't it, it is socially defined?

Mathematics is only a tool to try to describe reaity and is not reality itself. So ideally I should calculate using pi to infinite decimal places? But then that would not match reality because circular objects in reality aren't perfect circles. Give me a situation where pi is used to somewhere more than 10 decimal places in reality, not maths which is just a tool, but reality.

I am not doubting that using the idea of a perfect circle is not useful BUT it is not reality.

Raul:

If you honestly believe that all Socially defined things are not "reality", then I suggest you put that belief a test. go rob a bank (but don't hurt anyone), and when you get caught, see if you can convince the judge that the Socially defined penalty for the crime is NOT a reality.

I'm sorry, but some Socially defined things are as "real" as anything can be. They were defined the way they are, because the proof of experience, over the years, has caused them to be defined that way.

Math is NOT ONLY A TOOL, except to non- pure mathematicians. Mathematics may be used by some people as a tool in their attempts to describe/model physical "reality", but to pure mathematicians, Mathematics has a "reality" unto "itself".

Unlike our physical "reality", it is a WELL "defined reality" that is logically proven correct, consistent and interrelated.

Yes, there are some areas of Mathematics that are still in the discovery stage (because some of their concepts have not, as yet, been proven to be true or false and are just mathematical theories/ assumptions, but for the most part, mathematics is well defined, logically consistent and most of its Theorems have been proven to be true. (Again, I remind you, that its "truthfulness has NOTHING to do with "physical reality".)

On a 2 dimensional "flat" surface (something that can NOT exist in the physical reality WE LIVE IN, if Relativity is "true"), the sum of the interior angles of a triangle will always equal 180 degrees, where a degree is always defined as the size of the angle created between two adjacent radii of a circle. whose arc length along the circumference of that circle between those two radii is 1/360th of the circumference of the circle. (And again a "circle, is NOT an object that can exist in our physical "reality, but it DOES EXIST in the "mathematical" "world" of 2 dimensions).

Likewise the sum of the angles in a triangle drawn on the surface of a sphere (another object that can NOT exist in our physical reality) is greater than 180 degrees.

Like most people you confuse Mathematics' main purpose with having something to do with our physical reality. Any such comparison, where that is true, is purely accidental as far as Mathematics is concerned.

Let me illustrate with a story about the difference between a physicist and a mathematician:

There was once a professor of Philosophy who wants to determine what was the difference between the way a physicist thinks and a mathematician, so he devised a test.

In a room he had a table with a glass of water on it and a chair.

He brought the physicist in first and asked him to move the glass of water from the table to the chair and explain why he did what he did.

The physicist moved the glass of water from the table to the chair along a relatively straight line and said, "I have learned that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line." ((( as an aside, that statement may NOT be true in the Universe in which we live, if Space is in fact curved))).

The physicist then left, the glass was replaced on the table and the mathematician was invited in and give the same problem.

He moved the water from the table to the chair along a relatively straight line and said, "I learned in Math that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line."

He left the room and the physicist came back in, with the glass still on the chair.

The philosopher then asked him to move the water from the chair to the floor. The physicist picked it up and lowered it to the floor in a relatively straight linear motion and said the same thing he had said before.

He left, the glass was returned to the chair and the mathematician brought back in and given the same challenge, with the same results.

He left, the glass was put back on the table and the physicist came back in.

He was told to now take the water from the table to the floor and explain.

He picked it up, moved it directly from the table to the floor along a relatively straight line and quoted the same reason.

He left, the glass was replaced on the table and the mathematician was brought back in and given the same challenge.

He said, "That is easy, I already know how to get the glass from the table to the chair and from the chair to the floor". So he picked up the glass, moved it first to the chair and then from there to the floor.

Now, what is the difference?

The physicist works with "models", he used his Math "skills" to make a model for finding a scientific process for moving the glass between any two different points in space and then using that method to solve the last problem.

Whereas, the mathematician took the bigger problem and broke it down into two smaller problems, each of which he already knew how to solve, and used that knowledge to solve the original problem.

Pure mathematicians aren't studying "physical reality" they are studying the various relationships between their mathematical constructs in their "mathematical reality".

If those relationships have anything in common with physical reality, then THAT is for physicists to be concerned with. Pure mathematicians could care less. Physicists take Math classes, so they can learn enough Math to use it in forming their models. Most pure mathematicians don't concern themselves with Physics and physical "reality", they study Math for Math's sake.

When I studied Mathematics, the fact that it was a "reality" unto itself. One that does not change over time, was one of the things that caused it to be attractive to me. (Unlike Science, where "reality" is so uncertain and "scientific explanations are constantly changing.)

In Mathematics, things it deals with are true because its relationships have been "proven" to be logically consistent. (Again, I remind you that Mathematics has a "reality" unto itself and though some of its principals and relationships may be used by other people to try to model the external world, whether or not those attempts to use it for such purposes yields any useful results, that, to a pure mathematician, is totally unimportant.)

In Spherical Geometry, Pi has "exactly" the same mathematical value it has in Euclidean flat plane Geometry. the same mathematical "rules" apply and the same Calculus calculations define it in either system.

Just because something is written in a book, no matter how logical it may "sound", doesn't necessarily make it "a true fact".

Let a = b

now multiply both sides by a

Then a^2 = ab

now subtract b^2 from both sides

Then a^2 - b^2 = ab - b^2

now factor both sides

(a + b) (a - b) = b(a-b)

now divide both sides by (a-b)

Then(a + b) = b

but b = a

Then 2a = a

now divide both sides by a

Then 2 = 1

See what happens when you violate some of the rules in Math?

Rick

[rickinva]

To Raul:

Raul:

I reviewed the two examples you referred to. I immediately see the errors in both examples logic, do you?

Like my last example, they break mathematical rules.

Rick

[GSM]

Then(a + b) = b

but b = a

Then 2a = a

now divide both sides by a

Then 2 = 1

See what happens when you violate some of the rules in Math?

Rick

If a + b = b

then 'a' must be zero

and apart from the impossibility of multipling or dividing anything by zero, of course 2 zeroes equal *0*.

Mathemeticians make these conceptual mistakes all the time -

just like Einstein did !

Cheers .......... Graham.

[rickinva]

If a + b = b

then 'a' must be zero

and apart from the impossibility of multipling or dividing anything by zero, of course 2 zeroes equal *0*.

Mathemeticians make these conceptual mistakes all the time -

just like Einstein did !

Cheers .......... Graham.

The mistake was NOT in making "a" = 0. It occurred at the step where both sides were divided by (a - b). Since a = b, then (a - b) = 0 and division by 0 is NOT allowed for very good obvious reasons.

So, actually "a" did NOT have to = 0, it could have equaled ANY value originally.

Rick

[t-rex]

Wardenclyffe, The Unknowable

1) Nikola Tesla constructed the Wardenclyffe installation with the intent of establishing a Telluric transmitter site. J.P. Morgain gave 150,000 dollars into this project, expecting a basic Telluric telegraph link between the new and old worlds. Tesla failed to produce this system but instead he spent Morgans money on further experiment. The rest is history.

Nikola Tesla had many fascinating ideas in his mind, and thereby utilized the Wardenclyffe facility for a wide variety of experiments. We will never know the full extent of Tesla's ideas. Hence, in this regard the "Wardenclyffe Idea" is unknowable, like the inside of the sun, or God. Wardenclyffe as an idea is an enigma.

It is a characteristic of the human mind that when looking into the unknowable, the mind forms a projected image of itself upon the edifice of the unknowable. Verily this is a rampant condition on the EG forum. Wardenclyffe is now a myriad of projected phantasies. The Wardenclyffe tower of Babylon.

However, to the experienced transmission engineer the Wardenclyffe transmission station is a basic, engineerable, Telluric transmission system. This is evidenced by the massive Telluric terminal which served as the "roots" of the tower structure transformer. As a transmission engineer I see the ability for commercial, or military application, hence RCA Bolinas. Telluric transmission is an engineerable reality, there is no Art Bell.

The Telluric system as visualized by Nikola Tesla is very basic. Tesla, through various statements, provides most of the important principles necessary to achieve a working system. This system would serve as a sort of Non-Maxwellian transmission medium, for maritime and naval applications.

With the existence of such a system more detailed understanding can be gained through scientific observation. This is what I propose for the Wardenclyffe of today, now ready to be cleaned up and put into Telluric transmission service. Fat chance that will ever happen. I am explaining why on the other EG forum Wardenclyffe channel. These will be my final writings on the EG forum.

It is not in my best interest to provide technical information relating to any project in which I am seeking a commercial, or military, application. To do so is not such a good idea. Further, I have absolutely no interest in providing such information to parties which do not present their findings in a scientific manner. The only scientific work on this subject is that of Dr Green, and a queek calls him a shill. Welcome to the Greyhound Bus depot, Fresno, California. This route ends here.

The "Rite of Passage" into basic Telluric transmission is the Crystal Radio Initiative. The proposition is simple, who can draw the most energy from their local AM broadcast station, free energy as Tesla envisioned. But it is not free for the AM station, your load now appears on their power bill.

Tesla never claimed his Telluric system was a so called free energy development. In fact, his article in Scientific American on the new Van De Graaf generator confirms Tesla's belief in the Law of COnservation as a basic immutable law of nature. So let us dump this idea overboard here and now.

Tesla shows in diagrammatic form, and testifies in COurt that Telluric transmission does not utilize the Earth Ionosphere condenser. We are told of the Earth Ionosphere waveguide, and Schumann Resonance. Not only does this have no meaning in Telluric transmission, the Earth-Ionospher does not even have the proper geometry to support any waveguide mode. This too goes over the side, it can rest with Bin Laden.

73 DE N6KPH

[garrettm4]

Great Balls of Fire

rickinva,

I don't want to cause an explosion of useless argument but I think you have started to go on a crusade of wasted effort.

Since Heaviside has worded my thoughts better I will quote him on the matter of Mathematics and Physical Science:

"Shall I refuse my dinner because I do not fully understand the process of digestion?"

"Physics is above mathematics and the slave must be trained to suit the master's convenience" E.M.T. Vol. II, pg 414

"Mathematics is an Experimental Science

That the study of the theory of a physical science should be preceded by some general experimental acquaintance therewith, in order to secure the inimitable advantage of a personal acquaintance with something real and living, will probably be agreed with by most persons. After, however, the general experimental knowledge has been acquired, accompanied with just a sufficient amount of theory to connect it together and render its acquisition easier and more interesting, it becomes possible to consider the theory by itself, as theory. The experimental facts then go out of sight, in a great measure, not because they are unimportant, but because they become subordinate to the theory in a certain sense, and, we might also add, because they are fundamental, and the foundations are always hidden from view in well-constructed buildings." E.M.T Vol. II

In conclusion, Heaviside attained his historical significance by using real life to model his mathematical expressions and NOT the other way around. Mathematics is merely a tool that must be conformed to and judged by the real world where it is applied.

"Heaviside was not only a great mathematician, he was also a great physicist; and it is the knowledge of the the physics of the problems which guided him correctly in may instances to the development of suitable mathematical processes. He concerned himself little with formal proofs or rigorous demonstrations. As he remarked: 'In working out physical problems, there should be, in the first place, no pretense to rigorous formalism. The physics will guide the physicist along somehow to useful and important results, by the constant union of physical and geometrical analytical ideas'.'" L Cohen, Heaviside Electrical Circuit Theory, 1928, pgv

To finish here's a short expose of Heaviside's Electro-Magnetic Theory, given in the Philosophical Magazine,

"Every line of the book is important, and it is full of interesting digressions on all sorts of subjects. Though the converse may not be true, all clever men have a sense of humor, and it is therefore a pity that scientific writers emulate the ponderous dryness of the theologian. Mr. Heaviside's work bristles with humor of a type which he has invented."

REFERENCES:

[1] Ernst Julius Berg - Heaviside Operational Calculus, 1929
[3] Louis Cohen - Heaviside Electrical Circuit Theory, 1928
[3] Sir Oliver Heaviside - Electro-Magnetic Theory Volume II, 1889
[4] H.J. Josephs - Heaviside's Electric Circuit Theory, 1946

--------------------------------------------------------

On the subject of earthquakes, this was repeated on the propaganda box earlier and fortunately it's also on youtube

Why Can't We Predict Earthquakes ? (BBC Documentary) - YouTube

The part at 40 minutes 45 seconds in particular is interesting and the guy that follows. By applying pressure to a rock, the rock starts to produce an electrical current. He believes before an earthquake the rocks could be producing thousands of amps.

dR-Green,

There is a paper on the American Marconi Foundation's website regarding this phenomena, which you may find interesting.

I believe the effect to be due to displacement currents produced by changing the permittivity of the rock (via pressure / rupture) and the effective distance between two "boundary conditions", where one value of permittivity abuts or transitions into another[1]. All of this determines the effective electrostatic capacity present. It is essentially a hybrid of parameter variation in the electrical sense but also interspersed with chemical science as well, such as the tribo-electric and piezo-electric effects.



[1] Vladimir Karapatoff describes the junction between two dissimilar permittivities as best though of an infinitely thin conducting plane. Which aids in the calculation of capacitance for situations having layers of dissimilar dielectrics, like air and glass for a loosely spaced HV capacitor.

[1a] Vladimir Karapetoff - The Electric Circuit 2nd Edition, 1912, pg 164
[2] Ernst Julius Berg - Heaviside Operational Calculus, 1929, pg 197

Regards,
Garrett M

[dR-Green]

Data from the new secondary coil will be posted within a few hours.

[David G Dawson]

Crystal Set Initiative Questions

Quote:
1) The experimental work of Dr Green highlights some of what has been given here on resonant coils. It is unfortunate that only Dr Green gives us data for study, others just "hide away" their work or yield "multiply".

This is the 'Zealot' who is being referred to above talking to the 'Shredded Messiah'.
I am unable to provide pictures because this medium is weak and lacking and does not allow me to provide what you want.
I am even unable to remove the thumbnails as that provision is now full and cannot be deleted.
Understand the medium chosen before you criticise please.

The pathetic use of 'Smilies' is sufficient indication that nothing serious is going to ferment here unless we focus one another on the true task ahead.
This is modern 'lack of substance' garbage that needs to find the bin.
I don't like this medium.

You have still not answered my questions with respect to 'what we can expect' with firing up the CSI (Crystal Set Initiative) with the 'Tesla Transformer Pulse Generator'?
I would consider the 'NET' and Guillemin to come in here to modify the input pulse such that we obtain the correct IMPULSE.

You are the one that has initiated this effort and would now like to know what the next step is that you have planned please after the power application?

Are you fully aware of how much all of this is costing each individual here with your 'Crystal Set Initiative' - a little humility please as we are not your enslaver.

I am the only one that has built your Vacuum Tube schematics and that is understandable as I am set up for that type of work but would appreciate some more concluding information so that we may progress as I am sure the others here are also interested in those results.

You keep telling me that I have a 'Tandem' TMT operating and I am going to disagree with you on that as I have a 'multiply' Extra coil and NOT your 'divide'.
Why is it that I am able to hear my Extra Coil transmitting from as far away as 20" through the pickup head and headphones and cannot do so with the local AM Station?

Is AM modulation the next step that you would be proposing as I have prepared also for that event?
Is this what the 'Regenerative Magnifying Receiver' (RMR) would be used for - Telluric wireless communication?

You are the Mentor here with responsibilities and we are your students attempting to understand and build your theories as you so freely provide and we in turn are responding in appreciation by doing our best with what you have to offer.

I will do my best to put all my data onto paper and send by mail to you but would first like the above questions answered so that we may continue with focussed experiment on YOUR system.

Thankyou.

Smokey

[madhatter]

Quote:
1) The experimental work of Dr Green highlights some of what has been given here on resonant coils. It is unfortunate that only Dr Green gives us data for study, others just "hide away" their work or yield "multiply".

This is the 'Zealot' who is being referred to above talking to the 'Shredded Messiah'.
I am unable to provide pictures because this medium is weak and lacking and does not allow me to provide what you want.
I am even unable to remove the thumbnails as that provision is now full and cannot be deleted.
Understand the medium chosen before you criticise please.

The pathetic use of 'Smilies' is sufficient indication that nothing serious is going to ferment here unless we focus one another on the true task ahead.
This is modern 'lack of substance' garbage that needs to find the bin.
I don't like this medium.

You have still not answered my questions with respect to 'what we can expect' with firing up the CSI (Crystal Set Initiative) with the 'Tesla Transformer Pulse Generator'?
I would consider the 'NET' and Guillemin to come in here to modify the input pulse such that we obtain the correct IMPULSE.

You are the one that has initiated this effort and would now like to know what the next step is that you have planned please after the power application?

Are you fully aware of how much all of this is costing each individual here with your 'Crystal Set Initiative' - a little humility please as we are not your enslaver.

I am the only one that has built your Vacuum Tube schematics and that is understandable as I am set up for that type of work but would appreciate some more concluding information so that we may progress as I am sure the others here are also interested in those results.

You keep telling me that I have a 'Tandem' TMT operating and I am going to disagree with you on that as I have a 'multiply' Extra coil and NOT your 'divide'.
Why is it that I am able to hear my Extra Coil transmitting from as far away as 20" through the pickup head and headphones and cannot do so with the local AM Station?

Is AM modulation the next step that you would be proposing as I have prepared also for that event?
Is this what the 'Regenerative Magnifying Receiver' (RMR) would be used for - Telluric wireless communication?

You are the Mentor here with responsibilities and we are your students attempting to understand and build your theories as you so freely provide and we in turn are responding in appreciation by doing our best with what you have to offer.

I will do my best to put all my data onto paper and send by mail to you but would first like the above questions answered so that we may continue with focussed experiment on YOUR system.

Thankyou.

Smokey

Smokey, while you and I may not agree on some of the technical details and maths here, with this I do agree 100%, posting pics and information is a major PITA! I share loads of technical data and engineering help on other sites that are set-up with a much easier interface. the lack here of this ability takes time to work around it, and frankly i don't have a lot of spare time to do this.

It shorts all involved and Eric from getting the data he wants. not being able to post properly formatted equations is beyond frustrating!

having to host the files and pics on another site and embed a link to them is frustratingly slow. I applaud DrGreens effort in this, I just don't have enough spare time.

[David G Dawson]

Something Better

Second attempt - first response went into the wilderness!
I normally do my Posts on Firefox Thunderbird then copy and paste here as I have lost too many Posts as Energetic appears to go on serial holidays.

Madhatter,
Thankyou.
John,
Would you please ask Eric if he can get himself familiar with the Yahoo format at 'n6kph' because the only one benefitting here is dRGreen and that is excellent but everyone else has difficulty in posting pics and diagrams?
I have asked this question before but had no answer.

Nobody has bothered to respond to my question as to whether you could see my last attempt at pasting pics but there again, no answer.

This is NOT the medium we should be using where Eric is limited in Computer skills and Yahoo makes it that much easier for both files and pictures and no 3rd party is involved.

I have asked Aaron for something better but that fell on deaf ears.

Cannot work this way and am now pushing all my information that nobody else appears to be having success with to 'dltorsiondevices' at Yahoo and just made an upload yesterday but will be removing all the old CSI stuff as it was only initial construction detail.

If I don't get a satisfactory conclusion here I may begin my own Yahoo site and this will include ALL my successful builds but the problem is with Eric and what he is used to and we need to get him up the curve whether he likes it or not because he IS the one that is missing out on all the detail.

He has a responsibility to each and everyone of us to continue with HIS incentive as we would ALL like to see a conclusion.

dRGreen,
Excellent effort, keep it up as I don't wish to discredit anybody that is attempting to help Eric.

TechZombie,
Thankyou for making a donation to Eric's cause as I see he failed to thank you for that effort but then we must consider his situation as he hates us all.
Your assessment of his condition was pretty much spot on and wish to thank you for the 'Shredded Messiah' label.

Nothing to do with us Eric, we are simply here trying to help you resolve your theories.

Thomas Henry Moray:
I am most interested in what you have to say with respect to Thomas Henry Moray as that is my other main project ongoing at this time.
This should be a good one for you and Vacuum Tubes and visible 'Energy Synthesis'.

All my information for the Moray project will be going to the Yahoo site as it would be wasted on this lacking medium here.
Notice at Yahoo there are NO sites in memory of TH Moray's work and the simple reason is that most have no experience with Vacuum Tubes other than the Amplifier sect who are only interested in making NOISE!

Smokey

[rickinva]

From RickinVA (NO MORE ON PI) To Eric instead

I want to apologize to everyone for the time and space I wasted in my postings about Pi. Not because I feel what I said was wrong, (I don't and it wasn't), but because no one really cares one way or the other about the points I was trying to make. And in THIS setting, no one should care. Again, I apologize.

But I do have a few questions for Eric, if he would be so kind.

Would you be kind enough to look in page 10 of this thread and look over postings # 284, 285, 286 & 288. And give me any input and help you might be willing to provide?

Thanks
Rick

[David G Dawson]

UHF Measurements Kiver

Eric,
Excellent Book!
Have managed to pull out in pdfs all the pages pertaining to Magnetrons as several of the sentences, words and illustrations hit home in my current Moray research.
Dynatrons, Negative resistance, Vacuun Tubes type XX (3 of which I have just missed on Ebay and have been in my 'to buy' list for about 3 years).

Illustrations show a split tube, probably Copper, which is the recent organisation/thinking from the Kapanadze camp.

Go here for a read and pull out what you want in single page pdfs:

UHF radio simplified. . - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library

Going now to pull out the measuring information that Eric has directed us to, some 30 pages.
OK that's done and will now attempt to put all the pdfs into one and will upload when completed if I don't have any problems.

Too big now at about 10Mb to upload anywhere so will give you this beaut little easy-to-use program to compile single page pds into a booklet:

Pdf Booklet - Create booklets from pdf files

Just make sure you have the pages in order when you select them all from your folder.

Nothing more on pi from me, don't want to upset the teacher!

Smokey

[dR-Green]

Old Vs New

The new secondary is complete, with improved connection terminals and 15% height to diameter ratio. All the 20 SWG wire I had left ended up being literally 5cm too short, so that had to be unwound and was replaced with 2 parallel layers of 24 SWG, which delayed proceedings by 3.5 hours. So no tests done yet, there's one final test to do on the old secondary before it gets moved.

[dR-Green]

(Original) Secondary coil with condenser ring as final turn removed:

First resonance peak: 3156 kc
Second resonance peak: Over 5000 kc (signal generator maximum)

The current and potential distribution is the same as 3101 and 4594 kc.

[madhatter]

Dr,Green

I noticed a couple things and have some questions and thoughts for you.
what is the frequency your designing for? 3Mhz?
the secondary being wound with 2 parallel wires will have increased inter-turn capacitance.

is the primary a flat coil in cross section?

early on there was a x-cell spreadsheet put out that I heavily modified and shared a couple times, if you have one version of it have you checked the mass & surface area of the coils?

the latest version I have I've included capacitance, inductance, reactance etc on the coils. that helped in getting my coil set parameters close to what I figured would work and the best available based on wire gauge.

It's been awhile since I looked over my build and the calculations. very frustrated that once I got the o-scope the sig gen crapped out.