Eric Dollard

[dR-Green]

what? no. thats the answer. but how about 10,000 people knowing eric dollard can! predict earthquakes but its not imporatnt to yu to know about collapsing buildings but for an oil company to protect their oil. < and you being the one pushing this propoganda.


maybe 10,000 people can find yuo and you can tell me what a rat race is like.

You can't pick up a building and move it to a safe place so your house has had it either way. If that's a problem then you obviously built your house in the wrong place.

The idea is limited to the laws that govern the real-world I'm afraid. What you can do is turn off the gas and electricity and water and prevent a big explosion and the costs of repairing it all afterwards. The oil company doesn't care if the pipe breaks and oil gushes out everywhere. The company doesn't particularly care about the destruction because you are the one who's paying to repair it in the end anyway, otherwise you are the one who has no electricity and no heat as a result of the damaged infrastructure. So forget the conspiracy theory nonsense.

You should study some experiments dealing with human psychology and crowd behaviour. Rather than following the exit sign out of a burning building, they follow the panicking crowd deeper into the inferno purely on the basis that's the direction everyone else is running. People aren't always as smart as you may think.

[ldrancer]

...

What?



10,000 people trying to be in the same place at the same time = people going nowhere. Have you encountered the concept of a traffic jam?

It's a known fact that humans are unable to control themselves. A population who have been told that an earthquake is coming will clog up the roads, and furthermore they'll trample over each other to be the first out of the door.

what? no. thats the answer. but how about 10,000 people knowing eric dollard can! predict earthquakes but its not imporatnt to yu to know about collapsing buildings but for an oil company to protect their oil. < and you being the one pushing this propoganda.


maybe 10,000 people can find yuo and you can tell me what a rat race is like.

[orgonaut314]

Another two pictures. This time a simulation of the Tesla coil as a network. Eric calls it the shunt concatenated network. You see the mutual capacitances on top and the mutual inductance as the first coils left. The rest is the transversal transmission line. Don't mind the resistors they are there for the simulator only.



The voltage seems stronger with 4 elements and the same 0,7V input. It has the same type of resonance as the longitudional network.



Looks like this one:


Has someone measured the complete frequency spectre with his Tesla coil? DrGreen?

It is funny that when you look at the voltages and currents along the nodes of this network for the first peak to the left of the maximum you see the nodes have a max at the start and at the end so two maxima. So this seems indeed a harmonic of the biggest resonance that had one maximum at the end node. Normally waves with higher frequencies have smaller wavelengths and are harmonics. This time 'waves' with lower frequencies are harmonics.

Also when looking at the differential equations that are 4th order they do not have a simple wave solution but clearly there is some wave like pattern.

Could it be that the wavelength goes with the frequency while normally the wavelength goes with 1/frequency?

Waves in counterspace

[orgonaut314]

Ok glad we figured it out. I was thinking that for the coil to carry an AM signal it should not distort a sinus carrier wave to much.

But about the internal resistance of the amplifier. I made a number of simulations and the resonant peaks change very much if the internal resistance is close to the impedance of the network. When it is much higher or lower the highest peak is best but when it comes close that peak gets much lower.

So that is something to take in consideration when a maximum peak is wanted. A transistor amplifier with almost zero internal resistance is the easiest solution. Using the frequency generator with 50 Ohm might not work so good.

[dR-Green]

I measured my spectrum by sweeping the frequency and recording the amplitude. So my spectrum consists of resonance peaks yours not?

I see! The spectrum is the spectrum or range of frequencies produced when the coil is in operation on a single frequency.

What you have are frequency response curves.

You press A4 on a piano and you hear a note, generally 440 cycles per second. But if you do a spectral analysis then you will find harmonics produced at 880, 1760 and so on, showing each harmonic associated with the note. That's the frequency spectrum of note A4.

In the same way, a coil produces a spectrum of frequencies, which don't necessarily have any relation to the self-resonant frequency of the coil.

Anyway looks like I didn't do it with the secondary alone unless it's in the coils compendium somewhere, if I did it then it should be there. I might have a play later and see.

Interesting findings anyway, I'm not sure how far the coil simulations will apply to reality but certainly introduces some things to keep in mind. It's already obvious that just changing the amplifier output impedance has an effect on the resonant frequency, in that is moves.

[orgonaut314]

Ok I think you are studying the shape of the output signal and its frequency content.

When I simulate the signal from the Tesla coil I get this strange shape. it is certainly not a simple sine wave. Very interesting. I plotted only 10ms. The input is a simple sinewave!



This is how it looks when we look at the last 10ms in 10s. Still not perfect sine there is some modulation and it does stay even after 100 seconds.


It turns out the internal resistance of the amplifier is important in dampening these transients. With 50Ohm it behaves like a nice sine wave.

[orgonaut314]

Yes I understand. The resonant frequency and the spectrum are two different things.

The spectrum produced by the coil(s) is the spectrum measured and shown. They are different when the coils are tuned differently and have different resonant frequencies.

I measured my spectrum by sweeping the frequency and recording the amplitude. So my spectrum consists of resonance peaks yours not?


This is my spectrum:

very small peak at:
0.925MHz
something bigger peak at:
1.390MHz
I measured the very large peak at
2.766MHz

There is no resonance above this. I cannot plot the vallues because my nanoamp meter goes over the max.


What I would like to compare is this resonance spectrum for the secondary coil. Perhaps you are measuring how the sine signal gets distorted by a not perfect working frequency generator that does not make a perfect sine? I would probable find those distortions if I could measure more precise or used more power but the distortion is not my interest at this point for simplicity I assume the sine is perfect. I was studying the resonant behavior of the secondary coil to see if it behaved like the longitudional network. Those peaks really stand out and I see how the harmonics are at lower frequencies than the main peak.

It is a very odd spectrum as normally I would find harmonic peaks at higher frequencies than the fundamental peak. If you think about it there is a large resonance at a certain frequency than you double that frequency and there is no resonance at all. So these are not normal waves that make the signal peak. They seem like inverted waves or something? Eric made a lot of counterspace comments on them.

[dR-Green]

Hi did you see this video where Eric explains transversal and longitudional analoques and how the harmonics are reversed in longitudional and how electric and manetic field are in fase?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc


I have the feeling you don't understand what I tried to say?

Yes I understand. The resonant frequency and the spectrum are two different things.

The spectrum produced by the coil(s) is the spectrum measured and shown. They are different when the coils are tuned differently and have different resonant frequencies.

[orgonaut314]

Hi did you see this video where Eric explains transversal and longitudional analoques and how the harmonics are reversed in longitudional and how electric and manetic field are in fase?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc


I have the feeling you don't understand what I tried to say?

[dR-Green]

Yes true the resonance was 3,2MHz without the contact measurement but this way I am sure I measure the right point on the top of the coil for maximum radiation. I do not completely understand your spectrum and I do not think measuring without contact will change my spectrum. Perhaps with the extra coil you have a halve wave resonance with different harmonics?

Measuring without contact won't change the spectrum (much), it will change the resonant frequency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_spectrum

Like a piano note playing, you hear the pitch as the fundamental frequency, or the strongest frequency. But the "sound" which you recognise as a piano note consists of countless different harmonics/frequencies. If you remove all the harmonics from a piano note, or any instrument playing a continuous note, then you essentially end up with a pure sine tone at the fundamental frequency which sounds nothing like a piano. So a spectrum analyser simply shows you all the frequencies that combine to make up that sound, or whatever it is you are measuring. You can then reconstruct the sound simply through putting sine waves together in the same frequency relationships and amplitudes as was originally measured.

Harmonics - Sine, Square & PWM - YouTube

[orgonaut314]

Yes true the resonance was 3,2MHz without the contact measurement but this way I am sure I measure the right point on the top of the coil for maximum radiation. I do not completely understand your spectrum and I do not think measuring without contact will change my spectrum. Perhaps with the extra coil you have a halve wave resonance with different harmonics?

[dR-Green]

I measure the resonance with the meter on top, metallic connection. The argon tube works like an elevated cap. I found it very easy to pick up the wrong radiation in the past during measurements.

Yes isolating measurements from each coil when they're both in use is tricky/impossible, but you might want to switch to the extra coil non-contact measurement approach for the secondary too, because even the distance between the pickup and the secondary has an observable effect on the resonant frequency, especially with high(er) frequency coils. That's why I had to start making note of the distance as well. The natural resonant frequency of your secondary will be much higher without the meter connected.

[dR-Green]

This is how it was determined that the coils are not in concatenated resonance at the design frequency (or thereabouts). The 3095 kc distribution shows a typical 1/4 wavelength over both coils as one.





The spectrum isn't the same as the coil's resonant frequencies. The spectrum shows the harmonics that are produced when the coil is driven at a certain frequency. There's another set of harmonics if you drive it at another resonant frequency.

Spectrum when primary is driven at 3892 kc



Spectrum when primary is driven at 1742.5 kc

[orgonaut314]

I measure the resonance with the meter on top, metallic connection. The argon tube works like an elevated cap. I found it very easy to pick up the wrong radiation in the past during measurements.

[orgonaut314]

Hi drGreen I just did a complete measurement of resonance of the secondary. I measured with only the primary as a loop to my solid state frequency generator no tank capacitor.


very small peak at:
0.925MHz
something bigger peak at:
1.390MHz
I measured the very large peak at
2.766MHz

There is no resonance above this. I cannot plot the vallues because my nanoamp meter goes over the max when I have amplification that I can only just see the other peaks.

So they rise like the longitudional network just like Eric said. I included the tekst where Eric says literally that the Tesla coil is the shunt concatenated line (point a) that I simulated in the earlier post.

This is very strange. Your resonance seems a typical transversal resonance where current and voltage are out of fase, a halve wave resonance. Strange I have no explanantion. My coil is grounded and has an elevated capacity.