Peter, whatever happened with Eric P. Dollard?

[dR-Green]

Hi

Apologies for being dumb - can someone explain the symbol attached. I take it is a sphere capacitor, if so does the large dot represent the outer shell, the plate to the right represents? and what is the small square at the end of the line?


Many thanks in advance

John

My interpretation of it can be seen in the image above, very simple arrangement to test it. Just a metal plate placed next to the regular top sphere to form a condenser. The distance between both determines the capacitance and affects the reception. It works with up to about 2cm gap between both.

I think the square is just Eric's way of drawing "have it on a moveable arm with a screw fixture on the stand." Just a way of adjusting the distance and holding it in place.

[john_g]

Explain cap please

Hi

Apologies for being dumb - can someone explain the symbol attached. I take it is a sphere capacitor, if so does the large dot represent the outer shell, the plate to the right represents? and what is the small square at the end of the line?


Many thanks in advance

John

[skaght]

Skaght
Couple of comments on your experimental setup.
* High frequency do not like loose connections and the alligator clips are just that.
* Connecting wires sould be very short and soldered together due to the extra inductance and capacitance effects. Tesla was always very keen on wire lengths. See the above referenced book.
* Best to get a piece of plywood about 3/8" thick, may be 3' x 3' in size and keep the parts together on a table top (saves the carpet).
* Beware of the dangers of HV capacitors.
* In small scale experiments the primary should be keept closer to the secondary and concentric to it unlike your set-up.
* Be aware of where the HV is in your circuit and make sure no spark-over occurs to adjacent components.
* When you work on a live circuit use one hand and keep the other in your "pocket".

Thanks for the words of warning! I follow the one-hand rule myself and always short capacitors out after I shut off the circuit. This is just a quick and dirty test setup. Obviously not ideal with the alligator clips, but if I was in the ballpark with the proper resonance, I would hope I'd still get some effects. In addition, because of the angle on the photo, it looks like wires are touching that are not. I'm aware how easily high voltage can short out. Welcome to the forum!

[dR-Green]

Bit of a Texas Pete test to see whether it works or not. It does

No proper grounding used here, only a combination of radiator pipe and house earth. Signal is very faint but gets stronger with the addition of radiator pipe connection. First indication of anything happening was clicking when touching the earth connection with my finger and a continuous white noise when held there. With a bit more tweaking I can now hear a guy talking but can't really make out what he's saying. There's also a woman around there somewhere, I assume she was the news presenter

[garrettm4]

Discharges of L & C and their Algebraic Solutions with Regards to Parameter Variation

I have, through the rearrangement by algebraic analysis of the Primary & Secondary Dimensions given by Mr. Dollard, from his T-rex "transmissions", come to some new personal insight into the analysis of parametric variation of storage parameters L & C with respect to Time.

Hopefully no one falls asleep on this one, because it will yield to anyone who can handle "school boy algebra" and basic differential equations some very interesting results and conclusions, that may assist those who are involved in building one of these devices!


Also by running through this exercise I came across the Natural Impedance, Natural Admittance & Natural Period of an LC circuit. This along with a perusal of Mr. Steinmetz 1911 paper Electric Transients, yields some very important information on the "Hair Pin" circuit of Tesla for use with the Primary Loop of the Tesla Transformer, as is currently being discussed on the forum.

This being taken up briefly, until further explained.

Natural Impedance of the Circuit:

Power Stored in the Dielectric Field of a Capacitor C


Power Stored in the Magnetic Field of an Inductor L


These two equations, which are useful for many situations, are in my view no longer of use when dealing with the various time functions of the discharge of L into C and C into L and are especially useless when doing this with parameter variation of L or C. More simply said, when algebraically considered, they are a dead end for the visualization of what's going on in time.

Something useful that they do show is, when set equal to one another


The above when rearranged and simplified, we find a CONSTANT that is in the form of ohms. This constant is the quotient of the proportion e (electro-static potential) per the proportion i (magneto-motive force) or the quotient of the magnetic lines of induction per the lines of dielectric induction, both coming out to be the same answer. (these same results will be found from my power equations shown later in this post)


This constant is of the nature of an impedance and is known as the NATURAL IMPEDANCE (or its reciprocal NATURAL ADMITTANCE) of an LC circuit.


Reference on the above exercise:
C P Steinmetz - Electric Transients [1911] pages 39-54 of the Journal of the Franklin Institute July 1911
Click Here To Download

This topic will be taken into further consideration with reference to the "Hair Pin" circuit and the Tesla Transformer later on in a future post.


Before I get into any other equations I have two brief topics to go over first.

Ohms Law, the Law of Cause and Effect:

Ohms Law, when used in my algebraic analysis of the various secondary dimensions, has been found to be an AMAZING tool, which has derived many interesting circuit CONSTANTS out of the differential equations analyzed. Although, the PROPER understanding of the units of PROPORTION (spatial storage, e & i) and INDUCTION (movement in time, E & I) is a very important thing to point out, if no distinction is made between these two quantities, an algebraic analysis is HOPELESS! One must rid themselves of the " Volts and Amps" mentality, there's no "free energy" to be found when thinking like this.

NEGATIVE RESISTANCE, the Craziest Word I've Ever Heard:

Note that through my analysis I have come to the conclusion that the terms NEGATIVE RESISTANCE & NEGATIVE CONDUCTANCE are very WRONG. Resistance r and conductance g only take energy away from the circuit (at least with TEM waves considered) and if there was a possibility for them to give back, then the terms might be acceptable. As far as I am AWARE, unless you get into some "quantum" situations where electrons are not present this condition of negative resistance -r or negative conductance -g is an impossibility , hopefully we are done coming up with nonsensical words when describing esoteric situations of an electric circuit.

In the understanding of parametric variation of L & C, r & g don't come into question when dealing with where the energy is coming from, but instead, only where it was dissipated! The PROPER way to say it would be EXCESS LINES OF INDUCTION from an inductive REACTANCE X(sub)L or a capacitive SUSCEPTANCE B(sub)C, which are in the measure of ohms and siemens which resistance r and conductance g are also measured in. The thought that ohms only mean resistance r and siemens only conductance g needs to be erased in everyone's heads.

A less formal but more correct way to say it would be negative ohms & negative siemens. These instances are caused by the storage capacity NOT being in PROPORTION with the INDUCTION. In other words, MORE INDUCTION is produced than was STORED. THIS makes much more sense as to where the energy is coming from and can now be understood algebraically. Also, OHMS LAW is still found to be applicable, although new interpretation of its use is needed.

Next stop, equations and interpretations.

Power & Time:

From the use of Ohms Law and differential equations, I will describe some interesting situations of a Discharge of a capacity C into an inductance L with the reverse instance considered as well. These will have reference to parametric variation of their storage capacity when developed further.

First let's start off with finding the Power of the Dielectric Field in motion and the Magnetic Field in motion (or with Time considered).

Energy of the Dielectric Field in Motion as Power per Time


Energy of the Magnetic Field in Motion as Power per Time


If you have read my earlier posts "Question On Plank, Q" & "Question On Plank, Q Continued" you are already familiar with these Power equations, at least for the Dielectric case, and as can be seen they are very similar to the ones listed at the first of this post.

Reactance in ohm & Susceptance in siemen:

To further understand the above equations, we need to find how to get Inductive-Reactance X(sub)L and Capacitive-Susceptance B(sub)C

If we set the INDUCTION I of the Dielectric equal to the PROPORTION i of the Magnetic we find an imaginary resistance or REACTANCE, from inductance L.


When rearranged. This shows how the "absorption" of the Dielectric Induction I is seen as an imaginary resistance X(sub)L, and how this takes Time to happen. This is the case when capacity C is discharged into an inductor L, what is also shown, is that the energy of Dielectric Induction I is converted into Magnetic Proportion i, thus no dissipation of energy only a conversion.
Inductive-Reactance = Henry per Second, Ohm

If we set the INDUCTION E of the Magnetic equal to the PROPORTION e of the Dielectric we find an imaginary conductance or SUSCEPTANCE, from capacity C


When rearranged. This shows how the "absorption" of the Mangetic Induction E is seen as an imaginary conductance B(sub)C, and how this takes Time to happen. This is the case when inductor L is discharged into a capacity C, what is also shown, is that the energy of Magnetic Induction E is converted into Dielectric Proportion e, thus no dissipation of energy only a conversion.
Capacitive-Susceptance = Farad per Second, Siemen

I developed this Idea further in my second post "Question on Planck, Q Continued" under the section "Personal Insight", second paragraph. This may assist in the further understanding of this interesting relationship.

Note the case of two capacitors discharged into one another and the same situation with two inductors has not been described yet, this will be taken up in the future. ONLY situations using both L & C are considered in this post.

Differential Time Found:

The above differential Power equations are only for ONE field energy WITH respect to TIME (fields are in motion). Time can be found two ways, one is capacity C discharged into inductance L and two, inductance L is discharged into capacity C. Both yield the same result, thus a constant can be found, that of TIME.

Discharge of L into C. Here Magnetic Proportion i is the current drop of the inductor L and Magnetic Induction E is the voltage absorbed by suceptance B(sub)C. This can be interpreted as a conversion of Magnetic energy into Dielectric energy via the dimension of Time.


Discharge of C into L. Here Dielectric Proportion e is the voltage drop of the capacitor C and Dielectric Induction I is the current absorbed by reactance X(sub)L. This can be interpreted as a conversion of Dielectric energy into Magnetic energy via the dimension of Time.


BOTH simplify to


The differential time constant shown above only applies to LC situations, solving for the differential time of the other three circuit configurations is the same as shown above.

Starting to emerge here, is a quadrature relationship of the visible (measured) Voltage & Current waveforms engendered by an LC circuit. This can be seen, if you carefully examine my above descriptions for the Time Constant of an LC circuit and those for Reactance & Susceptance.

This time constant forms a piece of what is called the NATURAL PERIOD of the LC circuit and is NOT in radians per second OR cycles per second, these values are DERIVED from the Natural Period.

Natural Period Defined:

It will be found that the value of differential time as shown for the time constant is only one "Arc Length" measure or one radian measure of time of the Natural Period. It is known that 2pi arc length measures or radians equals 360 degrees and 360 degrees is one full cycle. Thus we find that 2pi times the time constant equals the Natural Period, or one whole cycle, this value is in seconds and is denoted by T.

Natural Period (total Time of Cycle, in Seconds)


For a continuation on the subtopic of Reactance, Susceptance & Time for all circuit configurations (L, C, M & K) my post "XB with reference to L & C and M & K" is an excellent read.

Garrett M

[Nhopa]

Hi all

I have recently joined this forum and still trying to catch-up with the past six months' postings. First I want to thank all the active members especially Erick P. Dollard for all their efforts. I am part of that generation which was deeply indoctrinated with the currently accepted theories/practices, therefore, having a hard time quickly absorbing and adjusting to the theories advanced by this forum, but I am working on that.
There are couple of points to my posting.
1. I am beginning to see that some experimentation is taking place but I don't think it is enough. Mostly about a dozen or so actively participating members do discuss theories advanced by Erick Dollard and others. Theories are very important but can more easily be understood through experimentation. I wonder if there are many non-participating forum members or guest out there who would get actively involved in this forum with some help to start experimenting.
2. Although, it was mentioned in some previous posting the book "Nikola Tesla Colorado Springs Notes 1899-1900", I think it should be a mandatory reading and posession for anyone who is seriously interested in this forum's work. The information contained in the book is essential in order to get a grasp of what Tesla was trying to accomplish.
3. There is also a question on whether or not could some of Tesla's experiments down scaled so as to be managable in size and buget wise at home? If this is possible then help from forum members would be welcome.
4. Concerning the transmission project the question is this, can it be build to keep it under the FCC's radar, i.e. small units, low power and shorter effective range?

Skaght
Couple of comments on your experimental setup.
* High frequency do not like loose connections and the alligator clips are just that.
* Connecting wires sould be very short and soldered together due to the extra inductance and capacitance effects. Tesla was always very keen on wire lengths. See the above referenced book.
* Best to get a piece of plywood about 3/8" thick, may be 3' x 3' in size and keep the parts together on a table top (saves the carpet).
* Beware of the dangers of HV capacitors.
* In small scale experiments the primary should be keept closer to the secondary and concentric to it unlike your set-up.
* Be aware of where the HV is in your circuit and make sure no spark-over occurs to adjacent components.
* When you work on a live circuit use one hand and keep the other in your "pocket".

[lamare]

Can you post a picture of your setup?

From what I understand, it won't work correctly unless your coils are geometrically correct. See "Theory of Wireless Power" by Dollard, "Introduction to Tesla Transformers", Dollard, and "Colorado Spring Notes" of Nikola Tesla. You MUST have an extra coil to get the "real" effect.

Dave

May be the TF is supposed to he working with TEM waves, while the extra coil works with LD waves, so you have to match the longitudinal resonance freq of the extra coil to the TEM resonance freq of the secondary?

[Raui]

Hello all,
Things have finally started to settle down over here with the family leaving and all. I hope to start doing some work with crystal radios in the next few days. Tonight I will go over the posts by Eric better than I've been able to the past few weeks, should be a brilliant read. It seems people are coming along nicely with the concepts!

skaght,
Great to see you building. Dave has mentioned the matching masses of primary and secondary coils and spoke about the extra coil. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't see an extra coil in that picture. A 1/4 resonator with no magnetic coupling to primary or secondary with nice space between the turns is what we call an extra coil. Go back and read the last dozen of posts by Eric.

Raui

[Web000x]

Eric speaks about the importance of each coil, primary and secondary, having the same mass. Primary needs to be of sheet copper. 3 forms of resonance must be achieved. There is more, but you must read.

Dollard seems to have the best explanation for Tesla's work. Read his books first. Remember, reading books will only get you so far so build accordingly. You are on the right track.

Dave

[skaght]

It's not pretty, but I didn't build it for show, I just initially threw it together to test. The secondary is ~700,000 Hz resonance. There's no top load attached currently. Caps are .01 uF. There's thick glass and plastic around the spark gaps to protect the carpet. The ignition coil and bridge rectifier are in the background. I've been reading Steinmetz's stuff, so it looks like I'll have to read more of Dollard's stuff as well to figure out how to make the proper secondary. I'm definitely open to pointers on this project...

[Web000x]

Okay, so I'm still trying to get a disruptive discharge circuit that does something other than a standard tesla coil. This latest version, I simplified the input, using an ignition coil to charge the capacitor. I added the second magnetically quenched spark gap and my component values are in the ballpark to what Eric put on the forum. It still only has a single secondary coil. Like my last attempt, this circuit also seems to act like a normal tesla coil, although the spark is small and not that easy to evaluate. No fern-like discharge patterns. I'm wondering if you need two tesla coils for those effects...

Can you post a picture of your setup?

From what I understand, it won't work correctly unless your coils are geometrically correct. See "Theory of Wireless Power" by Dollard, "Introduction to Tesla Transformers", Dollard, and "Colorado Spring Notes" of Nikola Tesla. You MUST have an extra coil to get the "real" effect.

Dave

[skaght]

Next attempt

Okay, so I'm still trying to get a disruptive discharge circuit that does something other than a standard tesla coil. This latest version, I simplified the input, using an ignition coil to charge the capacitor. I added the second magnetically quenched spark gap and my component values are in the ballpark to what Eric put on the forum. It still only has a single secondary coil. Like my last attempt, this circuit also seems to act like a normal tesla coil, although the spark is small and not that easy to evaluate. No fern-like discharge patterns. I'm wondering if you need two tesla coils for those effects...

[h2ocommuter]

Daisy chain ideas....

Ok I being a truck driver must listen to radio driven adds all the time and heard Kim Kamando talking about many valuable things the other night. One had many possibilities relating to Eric and these sciences and just the whole "project as we all are participating at one level or another. Here is a link to the rocket hub. this sight is a funding source and they are advertising A science theme thing. Oh the last link for kick-starter is impressive as well foe a start-up

I will try to work on these things but don't be surprised if I can't handle the ball.

Zane

Nice to have your input rw.

This could be a fine contribution toward Eric's independence and dissemination of Tesla/and Eric's own researches; These I like to refer to as The Researches of Eric P Dollard. I am not keen on what Eric will ultimately choose to do. These are certainly Prosperous options that should give a certain amount of security. It is well known that if you have only one financial backer things can end quite abruptly. One thing I see here as the predominant good is that this sort of openness would probably insure against the insurrection of a single private individual putting the monkey wrench into the system as we all know has happened so many times....
I hope we can come up with a system that could protect Eric from this type of disaster.

I think it would be highly valuable as well to have a structured study video course or something like. This could generate participation in these studies as well. I would propose this as necessary to demonstrate the proper display of the science measured correctly and application as to the desired results. Moreover these demonstrations would also depict the accurate dissemination of the masters studies. respectively.

My two cents

Zane.

[madhatter]

try these two, much smaller
http://www.archive.org/details/philtrans09173990
On the Vibrations in the Field Round a Theoretical Hertzian Oscillator : Pearson, K. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

[lamare]

Lamare have you read the journal paper of Prof. Karl Pearson and Miss Alice Lee?

No, haven't. It appears to be available here:
Philosophical transactions. Series A: Mathematical and physical sciences : Royal Society of London : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

A whopping 200+ Meg download...

Will see if I can extract a pdf with only that paper.