Peter, whatever happened with Eric P. Dollard?

[Logical American]

Question for Eric

Eric:

Would you have time to explain the 2 types of voltages and 2 types of current to us?

Also, if the dielectric stores the electrical energy, then obviously it is the ether, because we do have vacuum capacitors. Why cannot people today make the inference? (as shown by the simple MIT video, wherein the metal cylinders were removed, and the glass clearly causes the voltage on the metal, when re-introduced)

I have a lot of questions that I wish to ask, but the first one is most intriguing to me (and others that I have talked to)

Thank you.

[Logical American]

Hindrances to true knowledge

Kokomoj0 posts Oliver Heaviside complaining about the mindset stuck in older people who have a hard time grasping new concepts, whereas the younger generation gets it.

I think that this is a problem we all face. Once I asked the question of what does a circle in 3d space look like? It took me 2 weeks of hard thinking before I finally came up with an answer. I asked the math head at a local university what a 3d circle was, all he could do is run a symbolic algebra program and give me a 3x3 matrix full of products of sines and cosines which clearly no one could ever remember. I tried other math professors, they gave up. Finally I contacted the chief math editor of one of America's prestiguous math journals. He admitted that he too, could not describe a circle.

I realized then that original thinking is very hard and original thinkers are hard to come by. For geometry, one original person is H. M. S. Coexeter. As, as someone recently said, and I paraphrase (and agree) "all the rest are parrots"

Yes, too true. And attitude is a key here.

I am hoping that we all can be patient. I did come here to learn.

Thank you.

[Web000x]

Eric:

Would you have time to explain the 2 types of voltages and 2 types of current to us?

Also, if the dielectric stores the electrical energy, then obviously it is the ether, because we do have vacuum capacitors. Why cannot people today make the inference? (as shown by the simple MIT video, wherein the metal cylinders were removed, and the glass clearly causes the voltage on the metal, when re-introduced)

I have a lot of questions that I wish to ask, but the first one is most intriguing to me (and others that I have talked to)

Thank you.

I am not Eric, but I think it goes as follows:

Voltage

1) E.M.F. as in the development of potential on the secondary winding of a transformer. (E,Weber per second)

2) Electrostatic Potential as in the dielectric energy stored in a capacitor. (e, Coulomb per Farad)

Current

1) Displacement Current as in the current that charges a capacitor. (I, Coulomb per second)

2) Conduction Current as in M.M.F. or the conventional current that flows continuously in a closed loop. (i, Weber per Henry)

On a side note, Eric is not working any real job right now. He is spending his time fixing his car and writing for the Energetic Forum. He isn't trying to do all of this for free. Everybody must eat. If he doesn't get some income soon, it is likely that we will not see him around for much longer.

Dave

[Logical American]

Thanks

Web000x, thanks for that confirmation, as it is what I expected. I am still amazed that this is NOT being taught in either high school physics and certainly not college/university courses.

I wonder if perhaps QEX of the ARRL might be a suitable forum for distributing this "oversight" so that more hams and engineers could become aware of the omission (purposeful or not) ??

Just a thought.

[madhatter]

Web000x, thanks for that confirmation, as it is what I expected. I am still amazed that this is NOT being taught in either high school physics and certainly not college/university courses.

I wonder if perhaps QEX of the ARRL might be a suitable forum for distributing this "oversight" so that more hams and engineers could become aware of the omission (purposeful or not) ??

Just a thought.

I guess it would depend on how open they are to it. I have to keep my mouth shut on the physics boards or get banned for even so much as question the status quo. Sad really, the blind would rather stay blind...paradigm shifts can be bumpy!

[t-rex]

I had to read that a couple times myself.

I think he is talking about each?



Can we think of that as similar to the flat wound amature transmitter coils?

does any of that sound right?

So do I read it correctly that we want Hi Z, Low inter-winding C, because that will result in higher magnification?

I am still plugging away on a couple things in his response to me too.


So I presume that fence is a huge primary magnetizing coil, the one he is siitting under is the secondary, and the center which is that same height as the secondary I presume is the extra "tesla" coil with the sphere on top?

@Eric
is the secondary wire spacing that gets wider toward the top because of poor insulation and high voltage or is that some kind of tuning? both? From what you are saying it sounds like we would want that secondary to be close wound and also the extra tesla coil with the sphere on top to be close wound? The primary I remember you mentioned using strap bronze for good impulse response.

Maybe I should be asking what we are all looking at in that pic That sphere almost looks out of place? and the center does not look like coil but a pipe. Like the center of a transmission line?
.

The fence is a single turn primary and a 22 turn secondary. Primary and secondary windings have the same weight. The size of wire used in both is 8 gauge. Obviously paralleled in the primary into one large conductor. The extra coil is wound with #10 wire. More specifically equal width to height ratio and the extra spacing on the outer turns is due to the accelerated voltage gradient. All of your odd harmonics add up at this point, and produce an enormous rise in electrostatic potential.

[t-rex]

It seems that "the long coils of popular design" have combined the secondary and the extra into one unit, while Tesla seems to say that the extra and the secondary should not be inductively coupled.

You are correct. The extra coil is series fed. Inductively coupling is at a minimum

[t-rex]

@Eric

If you compress several bronze strips together (say 3) such that the total area is touching the next strip will the result be equivalent to one strip of 3x thickness or will they retain the same effect as using 3 separate strips?

This would be better if the strips were insulated, laminated like a transformer core

[madhatter]

correct me if I'm wrong Eric, But I see a 'tube of toothpaste being squeezed' in that magnifier layout. I'll explain, the coil arrangement is increasing the capacitance of the dielectric and the Psi field is pushed to collect at the sphere, like an electron well. It's the edge effect being magnified, the one area not touched on and out rightly ignored by physics.

[Kokomoj0]

eric do you agree with this guys views on what tesla was trying to do? Tesla's Big Mistake?

You know I did not catch anything out of line in that read. I ma thinking it might be a good read for total laypeople who have no idea what so ever how the TC is really supposed to work.

Most people just look at the pretty sparklers.

[the...dude?]

Abnormal Voltages In Transformers

If someone could locate the paper that would be helpful:
Abnormal Voltages In Transformers. J.M. Weed. American Institute of Electrical Engineers. September 1915, p 2157

I have taken the liberty to upload, to http://www.filedropper.com/jmweed-ab...ansformers1915, the original article and the abstract below for those that are interested in Mr. Dollards reference:

Note that the document is ~3.3mb and is 40pgs long (with the discussion of the article included)

[t-rex]

Electrical Resonance of Inductance and Capacitance

It has been given by previous writing that there exists the following laws:

The Laws of Proportion

1) Weber, or Ampere - Henry

2) Coulomb, or Volt – Farad

The Laws of Induction

3) Volt, or Weber per Second

4) Ampere, or Coulomb per Second

Substituting relation (4) into relation (1), and re-arranging gives,

(5) Henry, or Weber – Second per Coulomb,

And substituting relation (3) into relation (2), and re-arranging gives.

(6) Farad, or Coulomb – Second per Weber.

It has also been given in previous writings that a proportionality factor, or ratio exists between the Magnetic Field and the Dielectric Field of Inductions,

(7) Ohm, or Weber per Coulomb

(8) Siemens, or Coulomb per Weber

These relationships represent the Characteristic Impedance, and the Characteristic Admittance, respectively, of the Electric Field.

Substituting relation (7) into relation (5), and substituting relation (8) into relation (6) gives,

(9) Henry, or Ohm – Second,

(10) Farad, or Siemens – Second.

Since the Electric Induction is the product of the magnetic induction and the dielectric induction, the product of the magnetic co-efficient (9) and the dielectric co-efficient (10) gives the electric relation as,

(11) Henry – Farad, or

Ohm – Siemens – Second square

The relation

(12) Ohm – Siemens, Numeric, h

Is the dimensionless versor operator, and it cancels from (11). Hence

(13) Henry – Farad

Equals

Second square

(13a)

(13b) ,

Denoting time square by the relation

(14) Omega square, or (radians per second) square.

Where omega (ω) is the angular frequency of oscillation of the L C relationship. It is then,

(14a) Per (Henry – Farad)

Equals

(Radians per Second) square

Hence the frequency of oscillation is given by the relation,

(14b) Omega equals one over the square root of the product of the inductance L and the capacitance C. Omega is the angular frequency in radians per second.

It is noteworthy that two metrical “space” relations, L and C when combined collapse dimensionally into the primary dimension of Time. Hereby it can be shown that the dimension of TIME exists between the Magnetic Field of Induction, and the Dielectric Field of Induction, despite these fields being a relation of space.

If then, the inductance is a geometric expression in centimeters and the capacitance is a geometric expression in per centimeters, the dimension of time results as a consequence of one over c square (second square over centimeter square). This would suggest that possibly time rather than velocity is the “dimensional transform” between the magnetic and dielectric fields of induction. It only appears as a velocity in an Electro-Magnetic configuration. The dimension of time is the “crossing point” so to speak. Time is the exchange of Magnetism and Dielectricity and their transformation into Electric Power and Energy. Frequency gives rise to energy, this in plancks per second.

Taking the relation LC equals T square, and factoring gives,

(15) Henry per Second, Ohm,

Equals,

(16) Second per Farad, per Siemens.

Taking the ratio of (15) to (16) and substituting,

(17) Ohm per – per Siemens, or Ohm square,

It is hereby that the square root of relation (17) is the Characteristic Impedance of the LC configuration.

(17a) Ohm square, or Henry per Farad

Z square is the ratio of L to C, this from the magnetic standpoint.

Likewise from the dielectric standpoint

(18) Farad per Second, or Siemens

Equals

(19) Second per Henry, or per Ohm.

And, taking the ratio of (18) to (19),

(20) Siemens per – per Ohm, or Siemens Square

It is hereby that the square root of relation (20) is the Characteristic Admittance of the LC configuration.

(20a) Siemens Square, or Farad per Henry.

Y square is the ratio of C to L, this from the dielectric standpoint.

Hence it is given,

(21)

(22)

And

(13)

Relating the Impedance, Z, and the Admittance, Y, to primary dimensional relations gives

(23) Z, or Weber per Coulomb,

(24) Y, or Coulomb per Weber,

And,

(23a) Z, or Volt per Ampere,

(24a) Y, or Ampere per Volt,

It is hereby seen that the ratio of magnetic induction bound in the reactance coil to the dielectric induction bound in the static condenser is expressed by the relation (21). Likewise, the ratio of the dielectric induction bound in the static condenser to the magnetic induction bound in the reactance coil is expressed by the relation (22). Thru relations (23a) & (23b) the proportionality between E.M.F., E, of the reactance coil and the displacement current, I, of the condenser are determined also by relations (21) & (22).

(25) E = ZI , I = YE

(26) Φ = ZΨ , Ψ = YΦ

In a LC configuration with no gain or loss of energy, that is a configuration with no resistance or conductance, it is in this condition only that Z is one over Y. Here the LC configuration is in a “Free Oscillation,” with a frequency omega. The proportionality between Phi and Psi is then Z in Ohms. This is a condition of what is called “Perpetual Motion”, trapped energy surging between magnetic and dielectric forms, with no where to go. The energy itself remains constant in this LC oscillation. It is stored alternating current energy, hence the LC resonant circuit is known as a “Tank Circuit” in radio work. This phenomena of energy storage play a very important role in the work of Nikola Tesla.

In the discussion of the “Telegraph Equation” two important factors were given,

a, The Power Factor

b, The Induction Factor

And switchboard instruments have been developed to display these factors. Defining a and b

The Power Factor is the ratio of the Energy produced or consumed to the total Energy of an electrical configuration,

The Induction Factor is the ratio of the Energy stored, Magnetic and Dielectric, to the total energy of an electrical configuration.

Relating these to the oscillating LC circuit,

The Power Factor represents the “Leakage of Alternating Energy”,

The Induction Factor representing the “Storage of Alternating Energy”.

For the condition of no energy leakage, the Power Factor, a, is zero percent, the Induction Factor is 100 percent, hence perpetual motion.

Of particular interest in the LC configuration is the “Magnification Factor” of Nikola Tesla’s work. Here is how Tesla achieved power gain with no amplifiers. Taking the ratio of the Induction Factor, b, to the Power Factor, a, that is,

The ratio of Energy stored to Energy lost, b over a

Here derived is what is called the Magnification Factor, n . This factor, n, is often called the “Q” or quality factor of the LC configuration, this in radio work. The following relation results,

(27) Po = nP , Watts,

Where

Po is the Power, in watts, circulating in the LC configuration,

P is the Power, in watts, supplying the losses of the LC configuration,

n is the Magnification Factor.

This is to say, for every watt of power delivered to the losses of the LC configuration, n times that power is exchanged in the LC configuration. Example, given is an LC configuration, its magnification factor, n, is 1000. An alternating frequency supply of energy, operating at a frequency of omega, is delivering energy to the LC configuration. The rate of energy delivered is one watt, this representing the losses of the LC circuit. It is then, n times one watt is the rate of energy exchange between L and C, or 1000 watts. Hence a Power Amplification of 1000, or 30 decibels. This is an underlying principle to a major part of the work of Nikola Tesla. (The Magnifying Transformer).

Break, more to follow
DE N6KPH

[t-rex]

Extending Inductance and Capacitance

In the previous section the following dimensional relation has been established,

(1) Henry – Farad, or Second Square.

Here given is the dimensional relation uniting inductance and capacitance, time.

This dimensional relation (15) can be expressed in a pair of forms

(2) Per Henry, or Farad per Second Square

And

(3) Per Farad, or Henry per Second Square

Substituting the relations;

(4) Henry per Second, or Ohm,

And,

(5) Farad per Second, or Siemens,

Into relations (2) and (3) results in the following relations;

(7) Per Henry, or Siemens per Second,

And,

(8) Per Farad, or Ohm per Second.

These relations suggest that variation of resistance with respect to time results in an “Elastance” K, in per Farad. Likewise, a variation of conductance with respect to time results in an “Enductance” M, in per Henry. What is significant here is that the variation of resistance gives rise to a reactance, this without energy storage in an actual field. See C.P. Steinmetz, “Theory and Calculation of Alternate Current Phenomena”, 1900 edition, “Pulsation of Resistance”.

Henry, time to the zero power,

Henry per second, time to the first power,

Or

Ohm, time to the first power,

Ohm per second, time to the second power

Or

Per Farad, time to the second power

And

Henry per Second Square, or Per Farad.

Here it is suggested that the variation of a magnetic inductance at a rate which is the square of the time function (cosine squared, etc.) converts this inductance into the equivalent of a Dielectric Elastance. Likewise, the variation of an electro-static capacity at a rate which is the square of the time function (sine squared, etc) converts this capacitance into the equivalent of a Magnetic Enductance. L, in Henry, is transformed thru time squared into K, in Per Farad. C, in Farad, is transformed into M, in Per Henry. Here the principles of Parameter Variation have been extended to include “second order” Parameter Variation, this giving rise to a quadrapolar configuration of inductance, L, M, and capacitance, C, K. Little knowledge exists on this topic, however the principle of the “Negative Resistance” Telephone Repeater is similar. Many experimental possibilities exist here.

While the previous material gives alternate expressions for inductance and capacitance in the dimension of time, it is very instructive to consider alternate expressions for inductance and capacitance in the dimensions of space, since they are geometric expressions of space in and of themselves. In the previous writings they have been, for the most part, directed primarily into electro-magnetic relations. Such is the giga-watt D.C. powerline to Los Angeles. The so called current is in opposite directions and the potential is of opposite polarity. Hereby, the magnetic field, as given by L, in Henry, repels, and the dielectric field, as given by C, in Farad, attracts. L and C represent the transverse E.M. forces. However, consider the current is in the same direction, and the potential is the same on both wires. Now the magnetic field attracts, and the dielectric field repels. Here result in alternate expression for the Magnetic and Dielectric Forces;

Henry, L, magnetic repulsion,

Farad, C, dielectric attraction,

And alternately,

Per Henry, M, magnetic attraction,

Per Farad, K, dielectric repulsion.

LC represents the Transverse Electro-Magnetic wave,

MK represents the Longitudinal Magneto-Dielectric Wave.

The T.E.M., or LC wave propagates along the conductor axis, The L.M.D., or MK, propagates normal to the axis of the conductor. In general, both LC and MK waves exist on a complex structure such as a resonant transformer coil. Here derived is a quadrapolar magnetic/dielectric relationship. Resonance is now on a higher order since two energy exchanges are now FOUR energy exchanges, hence a Fourth order differential equation results. See, L.V. Bewely, “Transmission Systems” book. This fourth order resonance was very important for Tesla’s Transformers and today is ignored. (Corums).

Here established is the forms of inductance, and two forms of capacitance. Expressing these in dimensional relations,

(1) L, Henry. Trasverse Inductance.

Centimeter Square

(2) C, Farad. Transverse Capacitance.

Second Square per Centimeter Square

And

(3) M, per Henry. Longitudinal Inductance.

Per Centimeter Square

(4) K, per Farad. Longitudinal Capacitance.

Centimeter Square per Second Square.

Hence given is the quadrapolar relations

L, the self inductance

C, the self capacitance

M, the mutual enductance

K, the mutual elastance.

Derived is two time scalar space distributions,

LM, Henry per Henry

CK, Farad per Farad

LM is called the Magnetic Space Factor,

CK is called the Dielectric Space Factor.

These space factors LM and CK represent this quadrapolar space distribution as extensions of the basic L and C. Also, a pair of frequencies now exist,

LC, Henry – Farad, or Second Square

And

MK, per (Henry – Farad) or per Second Square.

It hereby can be seen that resonance of a complex structure, such as an oscillating coil, is much more difficult to represent than a simple LC relationship. Here is the major obstacle to the engineering of Tesla type resonant transformers.

Break more to follow
DE N6KPH

[Web000x]

MK Resonant Frequency

Hey Eric,

I have been messing around with the L.M.D. wave transmission system and can't quite figure out how the resonant frequency of the MK wave is calculated.

You say that MK has to be represented in per (Henry - Farad), or per Second square. Trying to replace LC with MK in the standard formula(One over two pi times the square root of LC) for the calculation of resonant frequency seems to be incorrect. Do you have a formula developed for the MK resonant frequency of a transmission system like you have shown in the Borderland Science videos?

Thanks,

Dave

[mikrovolt]

In the picture of the Tesla magnification transformer
I can understand most of the drawing except the construction
of the primary loop and and how the leads are connected.
Also I am not sure what happens at this junction.