Peter, whatever happened with Eric P. Dollard?

[Web000x]

The longitudinal dielectric wave, however, propagates without magnetic component and therefore primarily by means of space distributed capacitance.

Watch out how you word things. The LMD wave does have a magnetic component, but it just so happens that the magnetic lines of force are oriented in the same direction as the dielectric lines of force instead of in quadrature as it is with the TEM wave.

Dave

[lamare]

Watch out how you word things. The LMD wave does have a magnetic component, but it just so happens that the magnetic lines of force are oriented in the same direction as the dielectric lines of force instead of in quadrature as it is with the TEM wave.

Dave

It looks like we have a difference of opinion here. I may be wrong, of course, but as far as I know the magnetic component consists of a rotational movement of the aether. With a pure longitudinal dielectric wave you have no rotation of the aether and therefore no magnetic component.

The difference in propagation speed occurs because with the longitudinal wave the aether moves straight ahead, while for the TEM it has to take a detour of half a circle and thus has to travel a distance pi/2 as large, which is why it propagates with a speed pi/2 as less...

However, that does not mean that there is no longitudinal magneto dielectric wave. There is, and it is called the TM mode, for Transverse Magnetic, which also has a longitudinal electric field. That is the mode you can find in the textbooks Eric has referred to earlier, a mode that does have a magnetic component and therefore most likely also travels at c and not pi/2 times c. See my reply to Eric:

You are right in that these are not standard transverse E.M. waves aka "Hertzian waves", BUT they all are E.M. waves because they all have a magnetic component. I think the dielectric longitudinal wave does not have a magnetic component. In other words: it does not create rotational disturbances in the ether a.k.a. the magnetic field. At least they should be much smaller in magnitude.

<snip>

So, we are looking for a propagation mode without magnetic component, which is a different mode than a TM mode, since a TM mode still has a transverse magnetic component along with a longitudinal electric component, which eventually is why the TM mode will almost certainly still propagate at a speed of c, and not pi/2 times c.

It is interesting to look at the probes they are using with the TM mode (left part of fig 129):

It looks like they are also using a sleeve balun, only this one is placed at the outside of the wave guide, while the ground / reflector plane is at the feed point, at the point where your feed current activates your wave, which means eddy currents, etc. will be induced in the plane, which appears to be the mechanism to create the conditions for a magnetic component to propagate along the surface of the pipe.

I suspect that when I place the ground/reflector plane at a tip of a dipole, where there is no current in the propagation direction, that you can get rid of this magnetic component, at least to a much larger degree than with the feed used for the TM modes.


I think the mode we're after is a mode without magnetic component, which I think is actually very easy to excite with the proper probe, because the diameter of the pipe is one of the most important parameters in all these E.M. modes, because the conductor surface has to support the magnetic component, which is why only certain diameters work.

However, for the longitudinal dielectric mode, the diameter is not critical at all, just like in the acoustic world of Helmholtz. So, any diameter that is smaller than required for any E.M. mode to propagate should do.

So, we are about to find out whether or not a non-magnetic mode can propagate in a tube with a diameter less than the diameter required for all these electro-MAGNETIC modes that are described in the textbooks. I have chosen the diameter of my wave guide such that none of these modes can propagate. So, if we measure a standing wave with my antenna coming saturday, we are pretty sure that the mode my antenna uses is indeed a pure longitudinal, non-magnetic mode.

[madhatter]

here this may help with the distinction. It's a clip from Volume 3 of Heaviside.
hmm the attachment seems to not be working....
text of the page 26.

26 ELECTROMAGNETIC THEORY. CH. IX,
to be underntood that the electric force is derived from thfe
potential in the eolotropic manner specified by
E=-(iVi+3V2 + '<=kv3)V. (2)
Ihe displacement is obtained by multiplying by c, as usual.
The result, as regards the displacement, is therefore the same
as if the charge were at rest, but the permittivity in the
direction of z both ways were reduced from c to k^-c. This
produces a lateral concentration of the displacement, with the
ultimate result that when u is increased to v, the displacement
is entirely in the equatorial plane, forming an impulsive plane
wave with circular magnetic force. In any case, the magnetic
force is the vector product of the velocity u and the displace-
ment D.
The question now to be considered is what occurs when u is
greater than v. Are the formula3 still valid ? We can see
immediately that some reservations are necessary, even
though no change of formula may be required. For k^ is
now negative ; and V, and also E and H are made imaginary
when
where s" = u'/v'^ - 1 = cosec^^ - 1 = cot^l?. (4)
This means that V is real inside the two cones to right and
left of the moving charge whose angles are 20, connected with
s2 by equation (4), but unreal in the intermediate region out-
side the cones. We must certainly reject the unreal V, because
this is a matter of physics ultimately, not of possible mathe-
matics. In Vol. II. were numerous formulae relating to waves
which had no existence when they assumed unreal meanings.
Certainly it is the same thing here.

[Web000x]

It looks like we have a difference of opinion here. I mat be wrong, of course, bu as far as I know the magnetic component consists of a rotational movement of the aether. With a pure longitudinal dielectric wave you have no rotation of the aether and therefore no magnetic component. The difference in propagation speed occurs because with the longitudinal wavae theo aether moves straight ahead, while for the TEM it has to take a detour of half a circle and thus has to travel a distance pi/2 as large...

I am basing that statement off of the picture in Eric's book "Theory of Wireless Power"


I have only begun to experiment to verify the elementary principles in the past couple of years. There is still much to learn. I am standing on the shoulders of giants when I say that the LMD wave does have a magnetic component. Only rigorous experimentation can clear this up.

Dave

P.S. The LMD wave transmission line will light up an LED connected to a magnetic sensing coil (my personal magnetic detector) indicating magnetism in the vicinity of each coil. You can see a variation of this magnetic detection in the Borderland Science video: Tesla Transverse and Longitudinal Electric Waves

[lamare]

I have only begun to experiment to verify the elementary principles in the past couple of years. There is still much to learn. I am standing on the shoulders of giants when I say that the LMD wave does have a magnetic component. Only rigorous experimentation can clear this up.

Dave

Yes, the LMD wave does have a magnetic component. That is the TM mode I described above, the mode you CAN find in the textbooks. A mode that propagates at c, as you can also find in the textbooks, including Heaviside's referred to by madhatter.

The pure longitudinal dielectric mode, LD, is a mode that propagates at pi/2 times c, which should not be confused with the LMD mode. It is a mode not caused by charges moving back and forth, because charges are some kind of localized TEM wave and therefore cannot ever travel faster than (local) c.

So, the LD mode is a current-less mode.

NO MOVEMENT OF CHARGE CARRIERS!

That is why we need to kill the magnetic component in my antenna, so we essentially get a continuous transient, whereby the charge carriers inside your wires (electrons) simply cannot keep up with the propagating fields and therefore you get very low or perhaps even zero losses.

I'm afraid even Eric's theory does not cover this charge-less, magnetic-less mode....

[garrettm4]

LM Vs. TM

Yes, the LMD wave does have a magnetic component. That is the TM mode I described above, the mode you CAN find in the textbooks. A mode that propagates at c, as you can also find in the textbooks, including Heaviside's referred to by madhatter.

The pure longitudinal dielectric mode, LD, is a mode that propagates at pi/2 times c, which should not be confused with the LMD mode. It is a mode not caused by charges moving back and forth, because charges are some kind of localized TEM wave and therefore cannot ever travel faster than (local) c.

So, the LD mode is a current-less mode.

NO MOVEMENT OF CHARGE CARRIERS!

That is why we need to kill the magnetic component in my antenna, so we essentially get a continuous transient, whereby the charge carriers inside your wires (electrons) simply cannot keep up with the propagating fields and therefore you get very low or perhaps even zero losses.

I'm afraid even Eric's theory does not cover this charge-less, magnetic-less mode....

A TM Wave has nothing to do with a LM Wave, or at least in an electrical circuit this is the case! Transverse Magnetic propagation involves an inductance L or a self-induction of the magnetic field (storage of magnetic energy) this being in series with the source of energy (lines of induction). Whereas the Longitudinal Magneto Wave involves an enductance M or mutual-induction of the magnetic field this being in parallel with the source of energy (lines of induction), the way it propagates isn't only 90 degrees spatially out of phase, it may propagate as a LINE or RAY as opposed to a LOOP from wire-to-wire. The LOOP action and potential RAY-like action of each differing induction may shed some light on this interesting debate. I think the inductance L APPEARS to slows down the propagation velocity of enductance M and so cannot be readily proven one way or the other. If you think of a transformer, its operation and the recent post by Mr. Dollard on self-induction and mutual-induction of ferrite, we have a new concept that is starting to emerge showing the divergence of the two inductions one as transfer of energy, the other as storage of energy, one seen as parallel and the other as series. The storage of LOOPS are done at the limiting velocity of c for L1 whereas the transfer of LINES to L2 via enductance M may be greater-than or equal-to c but the mutual core that they (L1 & L2) share builds up loops in reverse from the newly transferred energy of L2, opposing that of L1 and thus the standard transformer model can be seen here. So from input to output we only see a velocity equal-to or less-than c, but transfer between the two wires (L1 & L2) may be faster than c. The point being, the propagation velocities of the two inductions (L & M) may not be the same even while both are magnetic inductions. An interesting device to contemplate, is a transformer that isolates the individual self-inductions of L1 & L2 and only share a mutual-induction M directly between L1 & L2, thus only the transfer of energy can take place without any opposing self-inductions or reflection of the load, this could be a possible explanation for the Thane B Hinze Bi-Toroid transformer.

I wouldn't say that Mr. Dollard's theory doesn't cover this, although I can see why you say that. Mr. Dollard believes, like I have for a long time, that electrons are not a source of electrical energy, but the primary dissipators of electricity. They are the end-termini of the lines of Dielectric Induction and thus when terminating on a conducting surface these lines push the electron along the wire or at least agitate them into motion and the Drude Gas Model can explain from there. The biggest point he tries to make is that the real energy is outside the wire, thus minimal loss, and when in the wire a maximal loss caused by the movement of electrons, thus electrons are the enemy, the antagonist to the story of electricity. An analogy to this is the Edison DC Transmission System as opposed to the Tesla AC Transmission System.

The only way to get a PURE LD WAVE (with no TM residue) is to not have the lines of dielectric induction interact with a metallic surface. Or some how lockup all the electrons of the metallic media in which the lines of induction come into contact with. This may be how the Tesla Transformer works, by using mutual and self inductions and their differing axises of propagation with a complex metallic-dielectric structure to some how FREEZE-UP all the electrons from moving. This would then free or "fractionate" the dielectric field from the magnetic and thus the propagation velocity is now a minimum of c and a maximum of infinity dependent upon the secant of the angle of incidence, this may be the case for a pure LD Wave. This "velocity" may not actually be a velocity at all as Mr. Dollard has pointed out, new interpretation may need to be done to get an intelligible understanding of an LD Wave (or its cousins LMD & LM).

Just Because Mr. Dollard doesn't state exactly what everyone wants to hear doesn't make him or his theory wrong, personally the removal of mass was a godsend for me to hear, Ive had the same thoughts for a while now, and the new primary dimension of plank is of yet not developed to peak perfection where I believe you would find the answer to a magneticless propagation of electrical energy. Personally I am working on going through all the primary dimensions, secondary dimensions and tertiary dimensions with the various time functions to go along with them, in doing so I have found many interesting relationships that have yet to be talked about by Mr. Dollard or my self. I may in the future post some of the conclusions and insight I have gained but its quite troublesome to do so in an intelligible way without writing a book about it in the process.

The universe doesn't lift her skirt up to those who don't work hard and do their part in unraveling the mystery.

Garrett M

[lamare]

Just Because Mr. Dollard doesn't state exactly what everyone wants to hear doesn't make him or his theory wrong, personally the removal of mass was a godsend for me to hear, Ive had the same thoughts for a while now, and the new primary dimension of plank is of yet not developed to peak perfection where I believe you would find the answer to a magneticless propagation of electrical energy.

I stated that I was afraid even Eric's theory does not cover this, NOT that I consider his theory to be wrong. It may need some extension and/or refinement, but that is totally different from being wrong.

However, I do think the dimension of the Planck fundamentally couples the magnetic dimension with the dielectric dimension, and I suspect that because of that it is insufficient to fully describe the LD mode.

Eric said the following himself a few days back:

It is generally considered that any wave must consist of a conjugate pair of energies, magnetic and dielectric let's say. Only then an interaction between time and space is possible. As I have shown recently it is through the union of a conjugate pair (L and C) that the dimension of time is produced. The propagation constant is then equal to:

(1) Negative Gamma Square

Having a pair of imaginary roots, plus j Gamma and minus j Gamma

It is however that the JJ Thompson Longitudinal Dielectric Motions cannot have a periodic solution, there is one energy only, dielectric. This needs to be resolved.

My reply:

In its very essence, all electro(-magnetic) phenomena are motions in the ether, a medium with fluid-like properties in terms of it's capability of sustaining the propagation of electro(-magnetic) waves. Since transverse waves cannot propagate trough a fluid-like medium and magnetism is a rotational component in the ether, all electro-magnetic propagation must consist of some kind of space-bound dynamic flowing structure, which is some kind of wave phenomenon with a distinct frequency f. So, there is a one to one relation between all the parameters related to the phenomena, such as spatial distributed impedance and other parameters of the medium, and that frequency with has a dimension "per time".

The propagation speed of such a "transverse spatial wave structure" has a maximum of c. Whereby c is not a Universal constant, but depends on the local parameters of the medium, which depend on things like the density and temperature of the medium.

So, with all electro-magnetic phenomena, we have a maximum local propagation speed c.


Now let's suppose what I posted above is true, that you can have "steady state" ether flow, electrostatic-only waves. Phenomena that propagate at a speed of pi/2 times local c. That is too fast a speed for electro-magnetic phenomena to keep up with!

So therefore, you have wave phenomena that sees no inductance, only capacitance at its resonance frequencies. This is frequency dependent, but the frequency is such that the electro-magnetic wave with the same frequency can hardly propagate, because it does not resonate. So, you get a standing electrostatic wave, and a tiny electro magnetic wave. So, the magnetic component is suppressed significantly, which is why you can ignore the inductance for the longitudinal dielectric wave, at least in the particular situation whereby any electro-magnetic modes are out of resonance.

Of course, this phenomenon also has a coupling to time trough it's frequency, but some parameters are different. Most strikingly, its propagation speed is pi/2 times local c, which relates trough the spatially distributed capacitance to spatial dimensions.

So, there seems to be a gap somewhere, either in my understanding of the phenomena at hand, or in Eric's work. Either way, it would be nice to have this issue resolved.

[lamare]

I wouldn't say that Mr. Dollard's theory doesn't cover this, although I can see why you say that. Mr. Dollard believes, like I have for a long time, that electrons are not a source of electrical energy, but the primary dissipators of electricity. They are the end-termini of the lines of Dielectric Induction and thus when terminating on a conducting surface these lines push the electron along the wire or at least agitate them into motion and the Drude Gas Model can explain from there. The biggest point he tries to make is that the real energy is outside the wire, thus minimal loss, and when in the wire a maximal loss caused by the movement of electrons, thus electrons are the enemy, the antagonist to the story of electricity. An analogy to this is the Edison DC Transmission System as opposed to the Tesla AC Transmission System.

I beleive the electron to be a converter of energy. It sucks up an inflow of dielectric energy and converts that into an outflow of electro-magnetic energy. Prof. Claus Turtur made an interesting point that there must be a circulation of energy in the medium. I quoted him in my earlier article:
Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki
http://www.wbabin.net/physics/turtur1e.pdf

In the chapter "A circulation of energy of the electrostatic field" (pages 10-14) he makes a straightforward calculation of the energy density of the static electric field surrounding a point charge using nothing more than Coulombs law and the known propagation speed of the electric field, the speed of light, and shows that there must be some kind of energy circulation between the vacuum and charge carriers:

If electrostatic fields propagate with the speed of light, they transport energy, because they have a certain energy density. It should be possible to trace this transport of energy if is really existing. That this is really the case can be seen even with a simple example regarding a point charge, as will be done on the following pages. When we trace this energy, we come to situation, which looks paradox at the very first glance, but the paradox can be dissolved, introducing a circulation of energy. This is also demonstrated on the following pages.

The first aspect of the mentioned paradox regards the emission of energy at all. If a point charge (for instance an elementary charge) exists since a given moment in time, it emits electric field and field’s energy from the time of its birth without any alteration of its mass. The volume of the space filled with this field increases permanently during time and with it the total energy of the field. But from where does this “new energy” originate? For the charged particle does not alter its mass (and thus its energy), the “new energy” can not originate from the particle itself. This means: The charged particle has to be permanently supplied with energy from somewhere. The situation is also possible for particles, which are in contact with nothing else but only with the vacuum. The consequence is obvious: The particle can be supplied with energy only from the vacuum. This sounds paradox, so it can be regarded as the first aspect of the mentioned paradox. But it is logically consequent, and so we will have to solve it later.

[...]

Important is the conclusion, which can be found with logical consequence:
On the one hand the vacuum (= the space) permanently supplies the charge with energy (first paradox aspect), which the charge (as the field source) converts into field energy and emits it in the shape of a field. On the other hand the vacuum (= the space) permanently takes energy away from the propagating field, this means, that space gets back its energy from field during the propagation of the field. This indicates that there should be some energy inside the “empty” space, which we now can understand as a part of the vacuum-energy. In section 3, we will understand this energy more detailed.

But even now, we can come to the statement:
During time, the field of every electric charge (field source) increases. Nevertheless the space (in the present work the expressions “space” and “vacuum” are use as synonyms) causes a permanent circulation of energy, supplying charges with energy and taking back this energy during the propagation of the fields. This is the circulation of energy, which gave the title for present section 2.2.

This leads us to a new aspect of vacuum-energy:
The circulating energy (of the electric field) is at least a part of the vacuum-energy. We found its existence and its conversion as well as its flow. On the basis of this understanding it should be possible to extract at least a part of this circulating energy from the vacuum – in section 4 a description is given of a possible method how to extract such energy from the vacuum.

So there we are. The electric field (the airflow in our fandoor analogy) is on the one hand powered by the vacuum and on the other hand it powers the vacuum. So, at least part of the energy in space / the vacuum, referred to with names as "Zero Point Energy" (ZPE), virtual particle flux, the Dirac sea, Orgone, etc. is not only fueled by the electric field, it is continuously converted back into an electric field by each and every charged particle in the universe, which makes the electric field a source of energy. The implications of that are staggering. It means that the law of conservation of energy does not apply to electrical systems, because they are not isolated. After all, Turtur shows without a shadow of a doubt that energy is being extracted from the active vacuum by each and every charged particle and thus every electrical system in existence in the Universe.

Both the "static" inflow and outflows are steady state flows of the ether in one shape or the other, whereby the magnetic component is a rotation, a vortex in the ether and the dielectric is either a steady state flow, or a longitudinal wave.

Whenever there is electro-magnetics involved, you either have some kind of self-contained vortex structure in the ether or transverse EM waves (also with a rotational movement of the ether) at the boundary of two different media, like the boundary of a metallic surface to air.

[madhatter]

Lamare have you read the journal paper of Prof. Karl Pearson and Miss Alice Lee?

It was referenced in Heavisides 3rd volume, I dug it up off Archive, it's a fascinating read on Hertz's work and experimental results that show waves of greater velocity then light.

here's some excerpts..
"(3.) The writers next deal with the type of waves propagated, their
velocities and their phases. The following general conclusions are
reached : —
(i) Three waves of electro-magnetic force may be considered as sent
out from the oscillator, and not merely two as supposed by Hertz.
These are ; —
(a) A wave of purely transverse electric force.
(b) A wave of electric force parallel to the axis, briefly termed the
v/ave of axial electric force.
(c) A wave of magnetic force.
The waves of axial electric and of magnetic force move outwards
with the same velocity, which is, however, a function of the distance
from the centre of the oscillator. The intensity of both forces for
points on the same sphere varies as the cosine of the latitude, the polar
axis being the axis of the oscillator.
The wave of transverse electric force is propagated with the same
velocity at all equal distances from the centre of the oscillator, but
this velocity differs from that of the two previous waves, the amplitude
is independent of the latitude, being constant over any sphere. The
velocity after the wave has reached a certain distance from the double
point is always greater than that of the waves of magnetic and axial
electric force. Its excess over the velocity of light tends to become
three times the excess of the velocity of the magnetic wave over the
velocity of light ; both the excesses decreasing asymptotically.
these undergo remarkable changes"

[h2ocommuter]

Humm Nice

Nice to have your input rw.

This could be a fine contribution toward Eric's independence and dissemination of Tesla/and Eric's own researches; These I like to refer to as The Researches of Eric P Dollard. I am not keen on what Eric will ultimately choose to do. These are certainly Prosperous options that should give a certain amount of security. It is well known that if you have only one financial backer things can end quite abruptly. One thing I see here as the predominant good is that this sort of openness would probably insure against the insurrection of a single private individual putting the monkey wrench into the system as we all know has happened so many times....
I hope we can come up with a system that could protect Eric from this type of disaster.

I think it would be highly valuable as well to have a structured study video course or something like. This could generate participation in these studies as well. I would propose this as necessary to demonstrate the proper display of the science measured correctly and application as to the desired results. Moreover these demonstrations would also depict the accurate dissemination of the masters studies. respectively.

My two cents

Zane.

We all know that the fossil fuel companies won't do it and our corporatized government sure has heck won't do it... so it's up to us, the little people, to stand up and make it happen. It's time to go back to our past for the benefit of our future and resurrect a functioning wireless transmitter, which in turn would fund Dollard.

We could create a consumer type of perative that builds geothermal powered Tesla wireless transmitters, having Dollard as the planner/overseer. As I see it, this is the purest/cleanest form of power generation and delivery. But, it's up for debate. In any case, building a wireless transmitter would be groundbreaking and show the world that Tesla was on the right track. It would also give people something tangible for their investment in the co-op. I could also see building a Tesla museum at the flagship tower, along with a Dollard workshop.

I've been in marketing for over 20 years now and know how to promote and raise financial support for a project. Right now, all I can donate is my time and talents as a marketer. I'm ready to create this cooperative that has total transparency in it's funding and capitol spending. I believe investors/donors need an organization with a goal for their generosity, this would fulfill that requirement.

All I need is a green light from Dollard that he'd build a tower if we where to raise the funding. His support for this venture would greatly increase the ability to raise funds. I'd be happy to channel the fund raising through a paypal account that he is involved with, due to his apprehension in dealing with people he does not know and past transgressions. But, I'd like total public transparency of the donations and their use.

If I receive Eric's blessing and favorable responses then I'll turn on the marketing machine and create the cooperative, buy the domain, build the website and start promoting the concept and fund raising. This is a ton of work, but I'm willing to do it, if it means seeing a working wireless tower and also helps out a great mind of our time.

rw

[lamare]

Lamare have you read the journal paper of Prof. Karl Pearson and Miss Alice Lee?

No, haven't. It appears to be available here:
Philosophical transactions. Series A: Mathematical and physical sciences : Royal Society of London : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

A whopping 200+ Meg download...

Will see if I can extract a pdf with only that paper.

[madhatter]

try these two, much smaller
http://www.archive.org/details/philtrans09173990
On the Vibrations in the Field Round a Theoretical Hertzian Oscillator : Pearson, K. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

[h2ocommuter]

Daisy chain ideas....

Ok I being a truck driver must listen to radio driven adds all the time and heard Kim Kamando talking about many valuable things the other night. One had many possibilities relating to Eric and these sciences and just the whole "project as we all are participating at one level or another. Here is a link to the rocket hub. this sight is a funding source and they are advertising A science theme thing. Oh the last link for kick-starter is impressive as well foe a start-up

I will try to work on these things but don't be surprised if I can't handle the ball.

Zane

Nice to have your input rw.

This could be a fine contribution toward Eric's independence and dissemination of Tesla/and Eric's own researches; These I like to refer to as The Researches of Eric P Dollard. I am not keen on what Eric will ultimately choose to do. These are certainly Prosperous options that should give a certain amount of security. It is well known that if you have only one financial backer things can end quite abruptly. One thing I see here as the predominant good is that this sort of openness would probably insure against the insurrection of a single private individual putting the monkey wrench into the system as we all know has happened so many times....
I hope we can come up with a system that could protect Eric from this type of disaster.

I think it would be highly valuable as well to have a structured study video course or something like. This could generate participation in these studies as well. I would propose this as necessary to demonstrate the proper display of the science measured correctly and application as to the desired results. Moreover these demonstrations would also depict the accurate dissemination of the masters studies. respectively.

My two cents

Zane.

[skaght]

Next attempt

Okay, so I'm still trying to get a disruptive discharge circuit that does something other than a standard tesla coil. This latest version, I simplified the input, using an ignition coil to charge the capacitor. I added the second magnetically quenched spark gap and my component values are in the ballpark to what Eric put on the forum. It still only has a single secondary coil. Like my last attempt, this circuit also seems to act like a normal tesla coil, although the spark is small and not that easy to evaluate. No fern-like discharge patterns. I'm wondering if you need two tesla coils for those effects...

[Web000x]

Okay, so I'm still trying to get a disruptive discharge circuit that does something other than a standard tesla coil. This latest version, I simplified the input, using an ignition coil to charge the capacitor. I added the second magnetically quenched spark gap and my component values are in the ballpark to what Eric put on the forum. It still only has a single secondary coil. Like my last attempt, this circuit also seems to act like a normal tesla coil, although the spark is small and not that easy to evaluate. No fern-like discharge patterns. I'm wondering if you need two tesla coils for those effects...

Can you post a picture of your setup?

From what I understand, it won't work correctly unless your coils are geometrically correct. See "Theory of Wireless Power" by Dollard, "Introduction to Tesla Transformers", Dollard, and "Colorado Spring Notes" of Nikola Tesla. You MUST have an extra coil to get the "real" effect.

Dave