Who performs the first longitudinal Moon-Bounce in history?

[Kokomoj0]

Arend , I met a guy from the USA who is replicating tesla/ Meyls magnifying transmitter sets for a 3rd of the price with 1 watt transmission, (now upscaling to 500watt.) He is selling the 1w sets with alu ball antenna's for 300usd, meyl charges 800 euro or so.

He gets 1.2 times C on a resonating frequencies somewhere between 4-8 Mhz.
He verified that the scalar resonant frequency is related to length of wire in the coil, and speed of light times 1.2
He also noticed the overunity effect at the receiver but so far hasnt explained me in detail about it.

I have my doubts regarding the Meyl sets like you and this german set out Meyls errors: Skalarwellen.

This is just a remark regarding the earlier posts in this topic.
Tesla's 1.54 factor (12HZ from tesla / 7.8Hz schumann resonance)
is close to pi/2 but these 2 values seem to be mixed up in many stories I read.

Im also from holland

Thats very interesting.

You know that may be propagation delay, something that may be interesting to look into.

From what I have seen so far mostly from the Dollar Lindemann lectures is that twekaing a tesla coil to be used as a transmitter from the design up can be very involved and there are no guidelines or land marks to be used for markers on where we should compromise and where we shouldnt.

Its impossible to get all the building parameters ideal. (unfortunately)


Do you have a link to that guys site or some way I could contact him? I would love to see what he has to offer.

I could use a 25kw unit! LOL

[Kokomoj0]

Hi all,

Since the distance between the Earth and the Moon is on average 384,400 km, on average we would have a return path of over 750,000 km, which would take more than 2.5 seconds at the speed of light, which is the speed with which EM waves propagate. However, longitudinal waves could make the round-trip in just 1.6 seconds, a difference of 0.9 seconds!

that and since the speed of light is accepted, (more like worshiped), if you can set up a standard xmitter/rec right beside the tesla transmitter/receiver you could compare them side by side and use the known light speed to measure the exact distance of the moon only seconds before or after you shot the tesla signal at it and get a precise measurement.

That would be quite convincing I would think.

Maybe use 2 pickups one on the dish and pull one off of the signal strength meter of the radio then run them both to whatever you choose for a timing device.

Then again I suppose you could get fancy and send/rec a tone burst.

[lamare]

I would think that the you would be able to at least get the near the rail voltage for unmoduated rf, but wouldnt you have to match it then drive the ball dierctly at such a high frequency? The nice thing is that it would be very directional but may require some kind of tracking to keep it on target too... This can get quite involved real quick. UNfortunately I have very little expereince with super high freq microwave baluns.

Is that your back yard?

If you are using a solid sphere wouldnt you stil need to account for the propagation velocity of the ball and transmitting elements?

Also on a side note, I believe tesla said that there is no energy in matter and that matter gets all its energy from the environment. In what respect did he mean that? Is he looking at energy as power output or power that can be extracted? I mentioned that to a friend yesterday and the reply was that there is energy in matter such as wood can burn etc and I realized that tesla must have had some very specific set of circumstances he was referring to. Yet if it proves einstein wrong then you would think it applies to al matter generally. If you are up on that one too, I have not found how tesla was applying that?

The photograph is just one I found on the net..

And you are right, I may have to account for the slower propagation speed in metal. IIRC, Dollard measured something like 1.25 x c with the mantle of his coax cable, which is a mesh-like structure filled with a dielectric. Wheatstone measured a propagation speed of 1.53 x c IIRC, and he used straight wires if I'm not mistaken.

Maybe I can find something on then net about what kind of correction factors are normally used with antenna design to account for the slower propagation in/around a metal.

[Kokomoj0]

In essence, it's a matter of rotational movement of the ether in the case of the magnetic component versus straight movement in the case of the dielectric component.

The magnetic component travels a netto path of half a circle, pi * r, while the dielectric component travels straight trough the centre of the circle, 2 * r. The division of these renders pi/2. In other words: the path the magnetic component has to travel is pi/2 times as long as the path the dielectric component has to travel. The magnetic component takes a detour, while the dielectric component does not....

I gave that some thought and what I find confusing is the E field is claimed to share both the transverse and longitudinal waves seemingly at the same time. How do we reconcile the same field travelling at 2 different speeds at the same time? or do I misunderstand the principle? I believe the dielectric component is the E field? Maybe the question to ask is what field is the dielectric longitudinal wave being represented as?

transverse



longitudinal

and here are some measurements taken on the dome of meyls unit that may interest you?

[lamare]

I gave that some thought and what I find confusing is the E field is claimed to share both the transverse and longitudinal waves seemingly at the same time. How do we reconcile the same field travelling at 2 different speeds at the same time? or do I misunderstand the principle? I believe the dielectric component is the E field? Maybe the question to ask is what field is the dielectric longitudinal wave being represented as?

As far as I can tell, there are actually two kinds of transverse waves.

1. A 'real' transverse wave which can only occur ad the boundary between two media, like wire and air/vacuum, which is what is known as "the near field".

2. Some kind of rotating vortex in the ether, which is known as "the far field".

So, close to what Meyl wrote, it appears as if with the radiation of transverse waves, you have a "real" transverse wave in the vicinity of the antenna, which turns into some kind of "moving vortexes" further away from the antenna. After all, you cannot have "real" transverse waves in a fluid, only at the boundary between two fluids or gases with a dfferent density.

I posted some on this before:

As far as I can tell, Tesla regarded EM waves as being "just" transversal electro-magnetic waves, just like the kind of waves that travel on a pond when you throw a rock in there. If that is what he was rejecting, I totally agree with him, because you cannot have transversal waves inside a fluid. Not in water and also not in the ether. Only at the border of two media with a different density you can have classic transversal waves, IMHO. So, in that sense I agree with Tesla.

However, there is a third way waves can occur, both in fluids as in the ether, which are waves that literally run in circles, or, around the surface of some kind of vortex. So, you cannot have actual transversal waves inside the ether, but you can have localized standing waves making some kind of bubble inside the fluid. And such bubbles, vortexes, are actually what we call particles and which are the cause for the well known wave-particle duality, which forms the basis for Quantum Mechanics:

Introduction to quantum mechanics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1924, Louis de Broglie proposed the idea that just as light has both wave-like and particle-like properties, matter also has wave-like properties. The wavelength, λ, associated with a particle is related to its momentum, p. [...] The relationship, called the de Broglie hypothesis, holds for all types of matter. Thus all matter exhibits properties of both particles and waves.

In the double-slit experiment as originally performed by Thomas Young and Augustin Fresnel in 1827, a beam of light is directed through two narrow, closely spaced slits, producing an interference pattern of light and dark bands on a screen. If one of the slits is covered up, one might naively expect that the intensity of the fringes due to interference would be halved everywhere. In fact, a much simpler pattern is seen, a simple diffraction pattern. Closing one slit results in a much simpler pattern diametrically opposite the open slit. Exactly the same behaviour can be demonstrated in water waves, and so the double-slit experiment was seen as a demonstration of the wave nature of light.
The diffraction pattern produced when light is shone through one slit (top) and the interference pattern produced by two slits (bottom). The interference pattern from two slits is much more complex, demonstrating the wave-like propagation of light.

The double-slit experiment has also been performed using electrons, atoms, and even molecules, and the same type of interference pattern is seen. Thus all matter possesses both particle and wave characteristics.

So, there you are. Tesla was right in that there cannot be classic transversal waves trough the ether, but it appears he simply never considered the possibility that EM waves could actually consist of some kind of vortex-like structure along which standing electro-magnetic waves can and do propagate trough the ether.

And actually, in the area just around a transmitter antenna the fields have different characteristics than further away from an antenna. Remember what I said about the possibility of having transversal waves at the border of two media? How about the border between antenna and the air?

This distinction is known as "near field" versus "far field":

Near and far field - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "far-field", which extends from about two wavelengths distance from the antenna to infinity, is the region in which the field acts as "normal" electromagnetic radiation. The power of this radiation decreases as the square of distance from the antenna, and absorption of the radiation has no effect on the transmitter. By contrast, the "near-field", which is inside about one wavelength distance from the antenna, is a region in which there are strong inductive and capacitative effects from the currents and charges in the antenna, which do not behave like far-field radiation. These effects decrease in power far more quickly with distance, than does the far-field radiation power.

Now re-read Tesla's paper with that in mind.....

So, in essence, Tesla did not realise that there was such a thing as a near field and a far field. And actually, modern science literally makes "things" known as "virtual photons" up in order to hide the fact that they don't have the slightest idea what they are really talking about:

In the quantum view of electromagnetic interactions, far field effects are manifestations of real photons, while near field effects are due to a mixture of real and virtual photons. Virtual photons composing near-field fluctuations and signals, have effects which are far shorter range than do real photons.

Yes, that's what it says. Near field effects are due to a mixture of something real and something completely made up aka "virtual", which is literally another word for "imaginary" or "not real".

Update: Prof. Meyl shows this very nicely in his "Wireless Tesla Transponder":
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Mat...ransponder.pdf

In the text books one finds the detachment of a wave from the dipole accordingly explained. If we regard the structure of the outgoing fields, then we see field vortices, which run around one point, which we can call vortex center. We continue to recognize in the picture, how the generated field structures establish a shock wave, as one vortex knocks against the next [see Tesla: 1].
Thus a Hertzian dipole doesn’t emit Hertzian waves! An antenna as near-field without exception emits vortices, which only at the transition to the far-field unwind to electromagnetic waves.

However, the accompaning explanation sucks, because IMHO the far-field actually consists of vortices, "particles" with that mysterious wave-particle duality, so he may have to re-do some of his homework.

So, the way I see it, you get some kind of vortexes or "smoke ring" like structures in the far field, which may look something like this:

So, with electromagnetic waves, you have essentially some kind of rotation in the ether, whereby the fluid runs in circles/spirals, of course in the direction the variation of the ether pressure is pointing to, wich is the electric field.

So, the electric field runs around in circles/spirals and that is what we call the magnetic component.

Paul Stowe (some of his work here: Directory contents of /pdf/Reference_Material/Paul_Stowe/) has developped a model in which he describes in terms of "the aether populational momenta (p)". He describes magnetism as the Curl of this momenta:

Curl (mathematics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In vector calculus, the curl (or rotor) is a vector operator that describes the infinitesimal rotation of a 3-dimensional vector field. At every point in the field, the curl is represented by a vector. The attributes of this vector (length and direction) characterize the rotation at that point.

This is what he mailed me some time ago:

I have determined that in my opinion all of physical processes can be defined in terms of the aether populational momenta (p). Such that,

Force (F) -> Grad p
Charge (q) -> Div p
Magnetism (B) -> Curl p

Gravity for example is Grad E where E is the electric potential at x. This resolves to Le Sagian type process as outlined in the Pushing Gravity models. The electric potential E in turn is created by charge which is Div p...

My model is a direct extension of Maxwell's vortex model of interacting rings (the smoke ring model).
I have been able to define all fundamental constants in terms of basic parameters, including the gravitational constant G. Further, G is, within this system, seamlessly integrated to all others, fitting into a unified system.

The key to this system's definition is the realization that charge is fundamentally a result AND the measure of the compressibility of Maxwell's aether. See: The nature of Charge - Paul Stowe for futher details on this. This is a logical and natural extension of Maxwell work (Ref: http://vacuum-physics.com/Maxwell/maxwell_oplf.pdf )

Quantity SI Conversion Factor to Maxwell's Ether Based Units

Length meter   (m)                  meter(m)
Mass Kilogram  (kg)                 Kilogram (kg)
Time Second    (sec)                second (sec)
Force Newton   (Nt)                 kg-m/sec^2
Energy Joules  (J)                  kg-m^2/sec^2
Power Watts                         kg-m^2/sec^3
Action         [h] (Planck's Const) kg-m^2/sec
Permitivitty   [z] (Q^2/kg-m^3)     kg/m^3 {1}
Permeability   [u] (kg-m-sec^2/Q^2) m-sec^2/kg {2}
Charge         [q] (Coulomb)        kg/sec
Boltzmann's    [k] (J/°K)           m-sec
Current        [I] (Amp)            kg/sec^2
Electric Field [E]                  m/sec
Potential      [V] (Voltage)        m^2/sec {3}
Displacement   [D]                  kg/m^2-sec
Resistance     [R] (Ohms)           m^2-sec/kg
Capacitance    [C]                  kg/m^2
Magnetic Field [H] (Henries)        m^2
Magnetic Flux  [B] (Gauss)          (dimensionless)
Inductance     [L]                  m^2-sec^2/kg
Temperature   [°K] (Kelvin)         kg-m/sec^3

{1} - density
{2} - modulus
{3} - Kinematic Viscosity

The basic physical quantities in this system are the medium properties identified by Maxwell in his 1860-61 "On Physical Lines of Force". We quantify the mean momentum (quanta) [ß], characteristic mean interaction length (quanta) [L], the root mean speed [c], and a mass attenuation coefficient [¿].

Their values are,

ß = 5.154664E-27 kg-m/sec
L = 6.430917E-08 m
¿ = 3.144609E-06 m^2/kg
c = 2.997925E+08 m/sec

In other words, all of the major observed and measured constants of physics can be derived from the above terms.

[lamare]

Also on a side note, I believe tesla said that there is no energy in matter and that matter gets all its energy from the environment. In what respect did he mean that? Is he looking at energy as power output or power that can be extracted? I mentioned that to a friend yesterday and the reply was that there is energy in matter such as wood can burn etc and I realized that tesla must have had some very specific set of circumstances he was referring to. Yet if it proves einstein wrong then you would think it applies to al matter generally. If you are up on that one too, I have not found how tesla was applying that?

I don't know how Tesla looked at it, but from my point of view matter is essentially ether in a specific steady-state flow of motion, a flow of motion along some kind of vortex pattern in some kind of medium with fluid-like properties. As I posted here, we have no way to know what the ether is really like. All we can investigate is it's properties in terms of the way the elctromagnetic fields can propagate trough it:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post164759

The problem is that there is no way to really know this from an Engineering point of view, because all we know is that everything that exists in the ether is:

1. steady state flows;
2. longitudinal waves;
3. vortexes.

All that is [physical], is a combination of these three phenemenon taking place in a substance called ether, with fluid-like properties in terms of the way it behaves with regard to electrical phenomena taking place.

This is all we really know about it's properties from an Engineering point of view:
A Dissident View of Relativity Theory by William H. Cantrell, Ph.D. :

"Given that the nothingness of a perfect absolute vacuum is bestowed with the physical properties of a permittivity, e_o 8.854 pF/m, a permeability, m_o 4p x 10-7 H/m, and a characteristic impedance of 377 ohms, is the concept of an aether really that outlandish?"

Now the problem is that the only way we can interact with the ether is trough electro-magnetic phenomena in all the various ways these occur. So, how are we going to know what the ether is like, if we can only investigate it's electro-magnetic properties?

Now even though you cannot know what the ether really is made of, you can mathematically define an ideal "superfluid" and match it's properties to the known properties of the actual ether (permittivity, permeability and characteristic impedance) and then you have a theoretical model of the ether with which you can describe everything that we can know about the ether from an engineering point of view, because we can only interact with the ether by means of electro-magnetic interactions.

And that is basically what Paul Stowe did:

A Foundation for the Unification of Physics

We will start by defining a single vector entity (a basic quantum [not a photon, neutrino, graviton]). The fundamental properties of this quantum entity is; it has momentum P, occupies space consisting of volume s, obeys Newton laws of motion, exerts no force, and no external forces are exerted on it. This quanta therefore move through four dimensional space (x,y,z,t) at velocity V and has an apparent mass m, equal to (P/V).

Next, a population n of these quantum, having random orientation, occupying volume s', such that there is spacing between the entities, results in a system described by basic kinetic theory (without friction or interacting forces {a superfluid state}). Since each quantum, by definition, has an intrinsic momentum P, the system momentum p_s, becomes simply n[p].

A direct approach for defining such a system's total energy is in terms of total quanta interactions directly. In any such system, these interactions, are directly proportional to the average travel distance between collisions (called the mean free path {MFP}) also known as the interaction length l, and the momentum of the colliding quantum. This property directly defines the lagrangian action parameter h of the system.

So, while we have no idea what the ether really is made of, we now have a model for the ether in terms of some very simple but "made up" elemental entities that do not actually exist. It is just a tool to describe a fluid-like medium in terms we are familiar with. And since we have no idea what the ether is really made of, this is just as good as any other model you can make of the ether. And I really like this one, because it is very simple and therefore elegant.

All right.

Now with this model, all energy is expressed in terms of the sum of the momentum of a bunch of these non-existing entities with which the medium can be described.

And since matter is some kind of flow in the ether, all the energy in matter can be described in terms of the momentum of the fluid-like medium in which it exists, which would be the environment.

[lamare]

Speed factor

All right. So we have to account for the fact that the propagation speed along our metal spheres and feed whip is less than the propagation speed with wich a wave would pass trough a vacuum.

Since there is a fundamental difference between the propagation speed of longitudinal vs. transversal waves of pi/2, we have to figure out what the velocity factor for our components is. I found some indications:

HF ANTENNAS

The first prototypes of the Mystery antenna used the Taylor formulas, which which called for cutting the wires to a quarter wave length using the formula 234/f(Mhz) and the coax, using the same formula, but applying an appropriate velocity factor. The first version of my antenna worked well on 20 meters but failed as a multi-band antenna.

[...]

This piece needs to be adjusted by its velocity factor. If 300 ohm window type line is used with a VF of .91, the total length will be 30 ft. Alternatively, 450 ohm, solid 300 ohm or homemade open-wire line can be used provided the electrical length is on-half wave on 20 meters. Actual length will vary, typically between 27 and 35 ft., depending on type and velocity factor.

[...]

Remember to take account of the electrical length of the coaxial cable, the speed factor (ex. 0,659 for the RG58, but it depends on the own cable speed factor). So please, use your own particular cable specifications.

Velocity Factor Of Antenna Length

When building or tuning an antenna, it is important to remember that radio waves move slower through solid material than they do through space. Also, the amount of difference in speed between the free space and the material changes depending on the specific material the waves are traveling through.

Because of this, the physical length that an antenna is going to have to be in order to radiate properly will be shorter than the theoretical and electrical length that is calculated by my antenna length calculator. There are those who may use different formulas to arrive at the correct length for an antenna and a rule of thumb that seems to be followed quite often is to multiply the results by .95 when converting from theoretical to actual length.

Velocity factor

Electromagnetic waves traveling on transmission lines such as 300 ohm twin lead travel more slowly than they do in free space. Typical twin lead has a velocity factor of 0.83, meaning that electromagnetic waves travel at 83% the speed of light in a vacuum. However, this is the velocity factor for difference mode signals, with the current travelling in opposite directions on the two conductors. When used as an antenna, the current travels in the same direction on both conductors, the fields are not so concentrated in the insulator, and the velocity factor is much closer to 1.0, typically around 0.95.

Ham's Life: FEED LINE IS MORE THAN JUST A CONDUCTOR

One principle that is important to understand is the velocity factor of feed line. If you are going to make a balun with coax or some other need to cut coax in accordance to wave length you are going to need to know the velocity factor. If the formula 468/Frequency (MHz) = ½ wave length, as in cutting an antenna, the coax will be over the desired length because RF travels slower then it does in space or in an antenna conductor.

The proper formula is 491.5/F times VF (velocity factor) = ½ wave length in coax. The velocity factor for Belden 8259 RG-58A is 66% so a 20 meter quarter wave of this coax would be 491.5/14 = 35.11 feet 35.11 times .66 = 23.17 feet thus the ¼ wave length of that RG-58A coax is 11.85 feet or 11 feet 10 inches not 16 feet 6 inches.

Ham's Life: USING COAX VELOCITY FACTOR FOR ANTENNAS

Last week’s post was about a phenomenon known as velocity factor which is in RF feed line. This velocity factor is important to know when cutting feed line in wave lengths.

This velocity factor can be used to shorten the physical length of an antenna. If you would like to put up a full half wave 3.6 MHz dipole antenna you will need 156 feet of space but you only need 92 feet 9 inches if you construct the antenna using coax with a velocity factor of.66.

Omni-Gain Vertical Collinear Antenna by WA6SVT

Determine the length of the ½ wave elements using the formula: 5904 divided by the Frequency in Mhz. multiplied by the Velocity Factor of the of the dielectric. (5904/F x VF) Use the manufacturer's stated velocity factor for the cable you plan to use. Solid polyethylene usually has a velocity factor of .66 or 66% while foam cable ranges from 0.79 to 0.83.

[...]

The whip is a true ¼ wave long (no velocity factor correction) and can be constructed out of small diameter brass rod.

Antennas

Use of insulated wire is fine, and there is something in its favor. The insulation somewhat protects the copper inside from corrosion. But the insulation will change slightly the velocity factor of the wire, throwing off the calculated length by a few percent. This is yet another reason to be a few inches generous on your first trial size for an antenna. Cutting is always easier than stretching. There is no substitute for hoisting a first version of an antenna into its working location and doing an SWR plot or similar measurement to find out how critical the tune is and what the current resonant frequency is. Then using that data to custom adjust your length factor and fine tuning.

Note that coil windings are made of insulated wire..

Velocity factor of Home Depot wire - Page 2

If you don't have an antenna analyzer there is a simple way to determine the Velocity factor (K) of a wire antenna. It's not quite as accurate because you won't know what the reactance is or the phase angle but it does work for amateur purposes. The 468 number that we all use assumes a .95 velocity factor which accounts for end effect and other proximity effects. The base number is 492 which is a half wavelength in free space and 468 is K=.9512 times 492.

First the velocity factor for any conductor varies slightly depending on it's surroundings. An antenna in free space has one velocity factor while the same antenna close to the ground has another.

Put up an antenna using the formula 468/F. If the antenna doesn't work where you want it, tune your rig while watching the SWR. When you get to minimum SWR you have found the operating point for the antenna. Notice I didn't say resonance, minimum SWR does not always occur at resonance.

Multiply the frequency of the lowest SWR times the length of the antenna. This will yield a number either higher or lower than 468. Now divide this new number by the frequency you wish to operate on and it will give you the correct length to cut your antenna. This assumes you will put the antenna in the same place at the same hight. The good thing about this is it will save you hours of lowering the antenna to prune it and putting it back up again.

The velocity factor of your wire antenna is simply the new number divided by 492. So if you got a number of say 453, divide 453/492 = K .92...

This method is accurate and has worked for me for many years.

All right. Based on this, I'll calculate with a velocity factor of 0.95 and note that if I fill my feed/balun with a dielectric I need to account for some extra slow-down, so I better make the feed adjustable....

When I adjust for that, the diameter of my big sphere becomes 51,8 cm and the diameter for the small one becomes 17,3 cm.

[Kokomoj0]

Yes the familiar vortices of a dipole antenna.

I just did a quick goog to see what was all out there on the matter and here are a few things you may find interesting.


Here is an example of impedance matching with horns.
Types of horn antennas
Horn antenna - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Here are lots of general pics of the vortice effects and radiation characteristics of waves
yagi antenna radiation patterns - Google Search


gain and directivity
ANTENNA INTRODUCTION

it would seem in the final analysis that tesla is matching the impedance to a variant of the medium that hertz etc is matching.

Its like when you build a horn loudspeaker, what we do is match the impedance of the source driver to the environment in which it is expected to operate.

Interestingly the relationship between sound and energy radiation seem nearly identical.

Like sound in air at sea level versus sound in air at 14000 feet. there is a considerable difference in speed as a result of the density of the medium it traverses.

Hence is seems reasonable that the longitudinal wave proven to be faster than the transverse wave would also prove that the medium in and of itself has varying densities.

[Kokomoj0]

Now from my POV and remembering my fascination with antenna building, and maybe it was me, but the when precisely splicing coax per the manufacturers propagation delay specs it was never correct. By that I mean I learned very quickly that if I did not want to waste my coax I would cut the cable longer than the math predicted and tenaciously inch my way to the best tune possible. (I would have loved to hit Eric up with that question frankly to see if he worked that out.)









it does not seem to me to be a gigantic leap that we are talking about different propagation delays of either different material or accessing different characteristics of the same material. Like the horn the tesla coil is the converter or transformer from one medium to another as an exciter/impedance matching device and can I correctly say energy-medium variants? The above diagram to me says the same thing only without the minima and adjusted to the strength based on the position on the bar referenced to 1/2 wavelength.

The media would be a combination in our case of air with al it gasses and ether with its whatever as compared to variants in metals.

That said it appears to me that setting up a standing wave resonance on a conductor as shown above is a function of propagation delay of the medium it must work in just as setting up a standing wave resonance between 2 domes as tesla has done








which opens the door to, what if this condition can only be achieved in a condition of a standing wave and internal to the device [insert medium here] itself? In the case of 2 domes the internal medium would include the space between them.

So in teslas case split and placed at a distance from each other? See where I am headed with this?

[lamare]

(I would have loved to hit Eric up with that question frankly to see if he worked that out.)

This morning I printed the contents of this thread as well as my Pes article ( Article:Free Electric Energy in Theory and Practice - PESWiki ) and sent it to Eric by snail mail.....

I'm sure it will make his day when he reads this.

It has to cross the Atlantic, so it will take a couple of days, I guess.

I think the last post on the dead tree version is my last post.

Maybe we get some input from Eric.

Anyway, here's my spreadsheet with my calculations:

http://www.tuks.nl/Spice/Lamare_dipole_calc.xls


I think I'll take 12 mm copper tube for the whip, which fits pretty tight in pvc piping for electric, and 18 or 22 mm copper tube for the balun. I hope I can get the spheres manufactured from copper or else aluminum, stainless steel or just plain steel if that's the only option. (If there is a reason I would not want to use one of these, please let me know...) As far as I can tell, the big half sphere does not have to run all the way trough to a perfect half sphere, it can also be a bowl as long as the radius is correct.....

Yes, you will loose some gain, but I'm not too worried about that, given the dish we intend to use..


Anyway, the minimum length for the balun will be about 5,5 cm. Since I need at least 1 cm of free space for the connector, I have space of about 4 cm left for mechanical stabilization between the whip and the mantle of the feedline/balun.

The maximum length of the balun will be about 9 cm, so I'm thinking about taking an 18 or 22 mm joint and saw that half open, so I can fix that to the big sphere. Then the feedline can slide into that, and I can adjust the length of the feedline/balun by shorting the pipe step by step.

For the whip, I'll use the same trick: fix half a joint to the sphere, so the whip can slide in there and can be shortened step by step.

I may even forget about the pvc pipe this way, to get a very tight joint between the whip and the mantle.....

The only problem is how to pour epoxy in between the space between the pipes, such that it just enough, but not too much and such that the pipes are in the correct position.....



P.S. Will reply further later. Too tired to think straight now.

[lamare]

which opens the door to, what if this condition can only be achieved in a condition of a standing wave and internal to the device [insert medium here] itself? In the case of 2 domes the internal medium would include the space between them.

So in teslas case split and placed at a distance from each other? See where I am headed with this?

Yes, I see it all too clearly....

DON'T FALL FOR THIS TRAP!

I warned about this one right in this same thread:

<snip>
Also do not be fooled by the numerous pages about Tesla's Wireless Transmitter, like for example the kits and such sold by Prof. Meyl:
ETZS-Shop - Hardware
http://www.k-meyl.de/go/Primaerliter...alar-Waves.pdf

THIS IS NOT A SCALAR WAVE TRANSMITTER!!

It is a small-scale replication of Tesla's Magnyfing Transmitter, which is NOT supposed to radiate at all!

It is designed to PREVENT radiation!
<snip>

There is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A STANDING WAVE between the domes!

The standing wave is on the "wire" or "Earth" in Tesla's design...

And the amplifying effect is to be found in the higher order resonance standing wave on the wire/Earth, but that's another story.

[Kokomoj0]

Yes, I see it all too clearly....

DON'T FALL FOR THIS TRAP!

I warned about this one right in this same thread:



There is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A STANDING WAVE between the domes!

The standing wave is on the "wire" or "Earth" in Tesla's design...

And the amplifying effect is to be found in the higher order resonance standing wave on the wire/Earth, but that's another story.

Eric Dollard Tesla Longitudinal wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio with Chris Carson - YouTube

At the 5:00min mark he states that NT is transmitting a tight DC beam between the domes. (I presumed he meant pulsed direct current like a full wave bridge would look on the scope so I "presume" he was using and or producing a pulsed dc, or single polarity pulse and not ac +- pulses, and some means of creating a one way flow)

Eric does not say how fast the the energy travels between the spheres but does say that it travels 292 between the trans and rec through the ground.

Eric then made a couple distinctions when he explained the marconi system. . . saying marconi's system was designed to transmit "magneto-dielectric" LW at 292fps through the ground and "electro-magnetic" TW through the air at 186mps and that marconi did this by using the flat top antenna and changing the impedance, around the 5:35mark.

Then at 8:mark he states that dc has no cps, and is the scalar frequency then restates it as a scalar function. (so I dunno) He may have meant function for both and said frequency, that I presume are the same thing or maybe a verbal typo? LOL

at 9:00 mark he talks about NT would use "individualization" to tune both trans and rec to "both" the CPS and CDPS.

He does not explain what a "second order of tuning" is in terms of application or how to achieve it.

With a coil with one side grounded and the other open to air at resonance when the harmonics are in phase we end up with an impulse of infintesimal @ 10:30ish mark

Then he demonstrates the device to show the principle of operation and said he is transmitting 10ma of current into the ground @~12:00 mark.

(I presume he has a matched *swr = 1* into the ground on the primary and his single pole NT light as the sphere)

He said there is no radiation coming off of the light, only an intense electrostatic charge that is DC.

I can think of "lots" of question that we could ask Eric to fully identify the process. Especially the how he would suggest proper tuning.

Apparently he has worked out the math to calculate the coils but the video is too blurry to show it.

Unfortunately the guy on the camera just sat in one place so we have no idea what he had on the bench either.

Eric and Carson do a demonstration of the longitudinal wave @ approx the 29 mark

My impression is that the whole system needs to be one standing wave in an ideally tuned system...

His lectures are excellent but like all lectures he hits on the high points rather than disecting it all for builders. It would be nice to get Eric on a talkshoe conference, I bet we could pepper him with enough questions that would keep him on the line for hours LOL

[lamare]

Eric Dollard Tesla Longitudinal wave Energy SBARC Ham Radio with Chris Carson - YouTube

FYI: there is a (partial) transcript of this one at my site:
Tuks DrippingPedia : Sbarc Lecture

Intriguing that Eric also talks about this beam stuff... Very interesting.

Anyway, this is not what I am aiming for with this project. I "just" want to transmit longitudinal waves to the moon and listen to the echo...

[Kokomoj0]

What I am elluding to is can this be done essentially with one unit?

First acting in a transmit mode then acting in a receive mode.

My understanding was that the tesla transmitter transmitted no energy without an active resonating receiver to receive the energy?

If it should require 2 resonators and another is set up on the ground, it will short cut and jump to the one on the ground bypassing the moon.

That and another thing Eric was not clear on is when he said it travelled at 292 through the ground. I dont think he ever said it traveled through the air at that speed. Maybe I am being overly nit picky?

Tesla established the system where he could transmit [electrical power] longitudinally through the earth at a velocity of 291,000 mi./s. Also he developed a beam tube […]

In the longitudinal mode through the ground, there were really no losses and the lightbulb would light up at the other end.

And then of course we know about the continuous current or the direct current which has no cycles per second. This would be called a scalar frequency. Scaler by definition is a quantity that does not vary in your system of variation, in either time or space or whatever variation you're talking about.

I do not know how he meant that?

Then we have the oscillating current waveform, and this is the one that was utilized by Tesla. This waveform is expressed in cycle decibels per second. Now in Tesla's time, he had a concept which he called individualization where he would tune his resonant devices not only to respond to cycles per second but to the decibels per second and produce a second order of tuning where the waveform would become much more individualized.

It would be nice to know how to accomplish that?

What I'm trying to show with the shading here is the integration that shows that the energy contained in the wave is the area underneath it. There is no area on [the impulse waveform]. The amplitudes are infinite. And these are the waveforms that Tesla were working with and these waveforms would tend to punch through where the continuous waveforms wouldn't make it.

So this may be pulsed DC?


From his lecture, I noticed that Eric only specifies through the ground and I am not sure if that is significant?

and then how could he stick a bulb in the ground with no receiver attached to the light? That is another blank spot that I cannot imagine unless maybe he placed it between the 2 towers or had something that resonated on the lights themselves??



If I were face to face with him I would drive the man crazy with questions

[lamare]

If I were face to face with him I would drive the man crazy with questions

You may want to check out this book of his:
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Eric_Dollard_...%20Dollard.pdf

It is the top download at my site at the moment and it appears to explain at least these 4 different types of waves in detail....

I'm gonna print it now...