Dollard Reward

[OrionLightShip]

Thank you Kokomojo!

I know there are unmeasurable forms of energy because I can feel them with my body.

I have no clue how to measure subtle energy but as far as the kind I need to heat my house or power my appliances.... the kind of energy I am seeking....heat is the ultimate lie detector.

I understand using a capacitor to integrate power, but then you have leakages...error being on the right side of wrong though.

I am not jumping into the debate going on here but as a side note what you said here is my biggest gripe about ou'ers.

I have posted on literally every board that these guys do not know how to accurate measure their devices.

I even went so far as to draw up a little hi Z integrator for these guys to show them what it takes.

Maybe that is why every ou device I have ever made was not in reality ou?

In fact when ever someone claims ou, I usually need go no further than look at how they are measuring their work.

You are bang on target here btw

[Kokomoj0]

It is but they have leakage too unfortunately. There is no perfect way. They do however redeem most of the digital meter sins LOL

[OrionLightShip]

The concept is simple. It is to attach solar cells to LED(light Emitting Diodes). This can not be accomplished through efficiencies due to the laws of thermodnynamics. However, it can be achieved through inversion.

Can you explain to me what you mean by inversion?

I will give you actual test result so that you can understand. I placed 12 monocrystaline solar cells in a refelctive box, so that all available light will be absorbed. I shined a 100 watt LED that produces 7,800 lumen at the configuration and it produced 6 volts and 320 milliamps. Under the sun, at zenith, the same configuration yielded nearly the same; 6 volts and 300 milliamps. I was running the LED at 33.3 volts and 3000 milliamps to produce the 100 watts. So in essance I was only getting a 1/10 return; 3,000 milliamps in and 300 milliamps out.

Before proceeding further, you need to fix the errors in your math calculation. Using joules law we calculate the Power. P = IV, or current times the voltage. Your initial power in was 100 watts. 33.3 volts x 3 amps.
Your power out was 6 volts x .3 amps = 1.8 watts. You calculated 10% efficiency but in reality it was only 1.8 %. You must factor in the voltage along with the current to get the true picture.

Orion

[OrionLightShip]

It is but they have leakage too unfortunately. There is no perfect way. They do however redeem most of the digital meter sins LOL

When you say high impedance integration what are you talking about exactly? Teach me something new. I thought you were talking about capacitor integration.

Orion

[shawnnweed]

Can you explain to me what you mean by inversion?



Before proceeding further, you need to fix the errors in your math calculation. Using joules law we calculate the Power. P = IV, or current times the voltage. Your initial power in was 100 watts. 33.3 volts x 3 amps.
Your power out was 6 volts x .3 amps = 1.8 watts. You calculated 10% efficiency but in reality it was only 1.8 %. You must factor in the voltage along with the current to get the true picture.

Orion

Orion,

You are quiet correct. However, do not swallow the camel and choke on the fly.
And what I mean by inversion is to switch the voltage and amperage to keep the same amount of wattage. 33.3 volts times 3000 milliamperes is 100 watts (roughly). And 400 volts times 250 milliamperes is also 100 watts.
Imagine you are the captain of a trash barge. You sail down the bay to the mouth of the river. The river is 40 feet wide but your barge is 50 feet wide. This leaves two intial choices: 1) turn and go home or 2) dig out the edges of the river. You quickly realize that digging the river's edge will cost more than you will make in twenty lifetimes. So it is impossible; and this is what you teach your sons and it's passed down from generation to generation.
To liken this to my project; it is impossible through efficiencies to get out more than you put in. Through efficiencies you will need a 100% efficient solar cell, a 100% LED, it would have to be connected with superconductive wiring(that operates at room temperature) and placed in a 100% reflective box. And this would give you an equal exchange at best. Of course this is only theoretical because there is no such thing as 100% efficient and there never will be.
This is what you are taught and it is 100% correct. Much the same as it is impossible to fit a 50' wide barge into a 40' wide river; it is also impossible to raise the efficiency of a solar cell to put more energy OUT than is being put IN it.
There is another answer. What if you made the barge 30' wide and extended it so that you could carry the same tonage of garbage. By changing the input(the barge.ie length and width) you have now made the impossible..possible.
By inverting the voltage and amperage you can now make it possible. Once you understand the width of the river then by that measure change the barge. The cell produces 42 MaH per 1,000 lumen. 2,000 lumen=84 Milliamperes per Hour from the cell. 3,000 lumen will yield 126 MAH from the cell, etc, etc, etc. By stringing together high voltage LED's in series you can make 1,000 lumen at 22MaH. BY placing these strings in parralel you can make great amounts of light at very little amperage. But to show you mathematically. 400 volts times 500 milliamperes = 200 watts. 200 watts times 80 lumen per watt = 16,000 lumen. 16,000 lumen will be converted into 672 Milliaperes. Of course you will lose some through conversion of light into voltage, some through, heat, Lumen loss, resistance in wiring(ohm's law), etc. etc. etc. But it still does not change the math that much. You put in 400 volts and 500 milliampers and you get out 400 volts and 670 milliamperes. Minus a collective of 100 Mah per hour you still are OU.
,Shawn

[Aaron]

@Orion

Orion,

Telling me that I have finally "calmed down" is like the cops
that start yelling "calm down" at someone that is just speaking direct
so that when they tackle someone to the ground, people around that
situation will actually think that person was acting up when they were not.
And to say we can now have a higher conversation can be described in
multiple ways. In any case, no matter, you have at least showed you
may have the means to pay and agree to sign a contract.

Anyway, as far as the rest of your comments, I hear what you're saying.

But in reference to the ball and the refrigerator, both demonstrate more
measurable joules of work done compared to the measurable joules of work
put into it. That is more out than in and is "overunity" even though
overunity is an oxymoron but it is understood what is meant by the term.

You obviously aren't going to run your house on a bouncing ball but it
displays the nature of a system where there is complete dissipation on
each cycle with NEW potential coming into the system to do more work
over and over on each bounce. The total joules of work done when added
up on all bounces is roughly 8 times the joules in work done to lift it to
the 1 meter height. Lifting a weight to a certain height is real work, it is
measurable and a silly little ball shows there is no such thing as
conservation of energy as none of the energy displayed is going through
any changes from one form to another. And demonstrates that a belief
of "storing potential" is a delusion. And demonstrates the belief
that you get out of it what you put in is also a delusion. The potential
that is used for each successive bounce is completely new potential and
is not the same as what was used to lift it. That is free energy from
"gravitational potential" by whatever definition you want to give it and is
more work performed that we had to put into it.

The refrigerator in my kitchen is at a COP of about 3.0. That is three times
the work being done compared to the joules of energy from the wall. Work
in compared to work out.

Your comment about your electric bill telling a different story shows clearly
that your definition of OU is a made up one that doesn't have anything to
do with what it really means. Your made up definition of OU appears to be
something that must self runalso . That is not what OU means.

A system can be OU
without producing enough to self run but still demonstrates more out than
in. But it can include a system that produces enough to self run. But
being a self runner while producing enough to power other things is in and
of itself is not a requirement for OU, it is only an example of what OU can
encompass.

So both a bouncing ball and a refrigerator are OU.

What I'm hearing from you is you can see the ball IS showing 800% more
work done but you don't see it as being useful. Fair enough - and I agree
with you. It proves a point though that there is more work being done that
was put into it. If anyone can see why a bouncing ball is OU, then they
understand the nature of what needs to be compared in a system that is
open to environmental input.

You don't agree with the fridge because you have an electric bill that
shows you are paying money and it doesn't run itself. It isn't going to
at only 2.5~3 times over - but nevertheless, it is overunity and your
electric bill only proves that you have to input something into the system
and what you wind up with is cold food since you got a lot more heat
to move in measurable units of energy compared to what left the wall
in equivelant units. I don't personally agree with all these equivalents
myself but bottom line, you put in x amount of work from the wall that
you pay for and the total amount of work performed in that fridge system
is multiple times above what you had to put in. So saying your electric
bill tells a different story shows that you seem to not know how to
recognize an OU system when it is presented and you failed with the
fridge - but did recognize 800% with the ball but don't see it as being
useful for our purposes, which I agree.

Your calorimeter falls flat. I can put DC from a battery into an inductive
resistor and make that inductive resistor drop several degrees C below
ambient temperature while the battery's voltage and load powering ability
climbs. The measurable amperage from the battery is negative the
entire time. That is free energy coming right out of "nowhere" to charge
the battery while running the switching circuit to the resistor, etc...
The switch remains the same temp while inductive resistor gets cold.
All measured with very expensive calibrated platinum probes - highly
accurate but irrelevant to show that the temp absolutely drops. A 5
degree C drop in the resistor is the lowest it went below ambient.
I'm not the only one that has done this.

The battery winds up with more than I started with while the circuit
connected to the battery was switching the whole time. That is OU
and your belief in the calorimeter doesn't apply. You seem to be interested
in wanting to measure what you expect to be there.

And I can perform the same demo using slightly different parameters
but using the same schematic and can have the battery increase in
its "charge" while the same inductive resistor actually gets too hot to
touch. I'm not the only one that has done this either.

Based on what you personally believe OU must be, I don't see how anyone
will ever get a fair test from you - you didn't even know a refrigerator
is OU because you have a power bill.

There are multiple OU devices through the posts in this forum, legitimate
ones. The issue is not if there are devices that output more than what you have
to put into them - the issue is with individuals simply not even being able
to recognize what is in front of them to begin with because they actually
don't understand the nature of the device or the nature of nature itself.

I don't doubt your sincerity and you said your offer is more to inspire,
I think that is a good thing.

But OU is more out than in.

OU doesn't mean doing what you want it to do in order for it to be OU.

It is either OU or not and something can be 5 times over and still not
be a self runner with the input battery going down the whole time.
It is still OU demonstrating 5 times more work done than what left the
input battery but because the front side battery doing down, you
personally wouldn't call it OU just like you don't see how a fridge is
OU since you have to pay for input.

If there is more work being done than you pay for, it is OU.

This is one of the biggest problems with people that claim they are
qualified to measure the systems is that it needs to do what they want it
to do in order for it to be considered OU. That is intellectually dishonest
and is only setting people up to fail.

Can you find one single device online that is OU online and be honest in
explaining the input versus the output? There are quite a few.

Also, you think heat tells the story. When you measure the heat you
are only measuring what is wasted (unintentional work). You think that
tells the story about all the work being done, but you are very mistaken.
You therefore are believing that to make a magnetic field in a coil that it
is from dissipating energy in the coil.

You believe in conservation of energy from one form to another, which is
all telling about the potential quality of your analysis of these systems
since you think heat tells the story.

[Kokomoj0]

When you say high impedance integration what are you talking about exactly? Teach me something new. I thought you were talking about capacitor integration.

Orion

yeh with a series 10m resistor and very high quality stable op amp.

works well enough for me to disprove everything ou I ever built LOLOL

[Aaron]

measuring heat

Of course this is only theoretical because there is no such thing as 100% efficient and there never will be.

Overunity systems are over 1.0 cop but are under 100% efficient.
Hopefully Orion knows the difference.

The exception to the 100% efficiency is that it can be over 100% if the entire
system is running in a negative entropy mode such as driving a resistor
below ambient temperature while the power source increases in "charge"
simultaneously. There is no evidence of any dissipation and only evidence
of an inward collection and receiving of potential which is a cooling effect
and not a heating one.

But the most common example of a circuit that is 100% efficient is a common
resistor such as what is in a hot water tank. It is 100% efficient in dissipating
everything going through it into heat. It "wastes" 100% as heat but since
heat is the intended work to be done, it is 100% efficient in converting
the power you put into it into heat - your desired work.

All of these common hot water heating elements are 100% efficient with
a cop of 1.0. That is a straight closed loop, which is completely different
from open systems.

Anyway, I think your solar idea is easier to accomplish than you think -
you can pm me if you want me to mention a few things that eliminates the
need for 100% efficient solar cell, 100% efficient lights, etc... It is
something that I wanted to try for a while but have my time dedicated
to other projects.

---------------------------

General comment on heat systems...

As a reference to Orion's disbelief that a refrigerator can't be overunity
since he pays a power bill...

The hot water heater with a conventional heating element setup is 100%
efficient with a COP of 1.0. If you put in 3000 watts, you get 3000 watts of
heat out of it.

Heat pump hot water heaters are overunity (over 1.0 cop) but is less than
100% efficient. The "good" heat pump hot water heaters such as the ones
from Airtap are producing 2.4 times the heat compared to the power drawn
from the wall.

These heater systems can produce about 3000 watts worth of heat for
only 1250 watts input. This is overunity and is no mystery. Heat in the
room (free environmental input) moves for free and the heat pump uses
this free heat that we do not have to pay for. We only pay for a smaller
bit of electricity to run the compressor motor. 1250 watts input and
you get 3000 watts of heat output. This is overunity just like a fridge
is overunity. You will still pay a bill for the input power of 1250 watts while
you are generating 3000 watts of heat on the output. Discussing having
a power bill that tells the story only shows that there is a complete lack
of understanding of what an overunity system is.

They're just inside out from each other. Fridge you vent the
hot and keep the cold and the water heat vents the cold and keeps the
heat.

In these instances, that calorimeter test is actually valid since heat is
the work that is intended and can be taken as a valid measurement of
work done.

[OrionLightShip]

You win I am incompetent.

Except for the fact that I could care less about OU and certainly OU that is defined in the way that you define it. I never said a word about OU in my reward challenge post. OU is your thing, not mine.

Can your device that cools a coil be proven to be a ten watts in and a hundred watts out by my testing specifications....then step up, you win the prize.

Guidelines for the two thousand dollar prize.

1. If said delivered device comes out of the Math, work, or theories of Eric Dollard, one thousand us dollars with be paid to the inventor and another thousand dollars will be paid to Mr. Dollard.

2. If said delivered device does not originate from Mr. Dollards work, theories, etc.... then the two thousand dollars will be paid to the inventor in full and I leave that entirely up to the inventors honor and discretion.

3. Device must be reproducible (by me) with repeatable results.

4. Device must run entirely from one dc battery or 120 mains with power factor corrections made to prove the actual input power.

5. Device must produce 100 watts output power from 10 watts input, or must be self-powered and self-running after startup and produce 30 watts output power and must be scalable.

7. Output power must be converted to heat and measured by way of calorimetry.

[OrionLightShip]

yeh with a series 10m resistor and very high quality stable op amp.

works well enough for me to disprove everything ou I ever built LOLOL

Well, there you go!

[OrionLightShip]

@aaron

I am not looking for a fight. I am not going to participate in a word war with you. You are very skilled at using many words. That is not my game. Concise and Precise is the goal.

My intentions are to learn and help, not fight or quibble over words that mean different things to different people.

My motives for this thread were sincere, yet stupid by some peoples thinking.
I accept that.

If you are looking for a fight or a reason to ban me, then just do it already.
I wish to stay, not fight

I have apologized
I again apologized directly to Eric

Let's move on, shall we

Orion

[Aaron]

@Orion

Except for the fact that I could care less about OU and certainly OU that is defined in the way that you define it. I never said a word about OU in my reward challenge post. OU is your thing, not mine.

Can your device that cools a coil be proven to be a ten watts in and a hundred watts out by my testing specifications....then step up, you win the prize.

Overunity stated by me is not "my" definition - that is what overunity is.
Anything that outputs more than is input is considered overunity even if
it doesn't match the level of output you want or the form that you want.
Overunity is your thing, you just aren't saying it.

You want output converted to heat so you are mixing apples and oranges.

And I'm not sure why I would want to modify my cooling circuit's output
(which charges the battery) by forcing it to generate heat thereby
destroying the circuits ability to charge the battery any longer. That
sabotages the very system - this particular variation anyway. Doing so
would kill its ability to polarize the aether.

And the variation that does heat the resistor while charging the battery
at the same time is not 10 times over. 2 times is practically standard and
I haven't seen much more than this. An off the shelf heat pump hot water
heater already does better at 2.4 times and already scaled up enough to
heat a tank of water. For 1000 watts drawn from the wall, you will get
2400 watts in heat.

What you are asking for already exists - it is called a heat pump. You just
want it to be 4 times more output than the typical standard that is already
out there. A heat pump with a COP of 10.0 matches your criteria and
power factor correction is not an issue as more and more wall powered
appliances are coming from the factory already power factor corrected
as are many CFL's produced in Europe.

And I just read Dr. Jones' thread about his reward. He didn't comment on
different people's work being a waste of time and money, etc...
And his demeanor is consistent. He seems to really come from a
place of peace and love without having to proclaim that he is.

Anyway, good luck to you and I hope you find what you're looking for and
I hope you inspire someone to show you an overunity device that
is at a COP of 10.0, which is what you are asking for.

[Aaron]

@Orion

Let's move on, shall we

Absolutely.

[OrionLightShip]

And I just read Dr. Jones' thread about his reward. He didn't comment on
different people's work being a waste of time and money, etc...
And his demeanor is consistent. He seems to really come from a
place of peace and love without having to proclaim that he is.

Yes aaron, Dr Jones is better person than I as are you and millions of other people. I am more like Eric than I like to admit. I am not a social creature and I get put off quite easily. Thanks for continually reminding me that I am an jerk, incompetent. I already know I am socially unacceptable and do not belong on this planet. I apologized sincerely.

Mirrors are everywhere friend, you just have to look.

Orion

[OrionLightShip]

You just might have something there Shawn...wishing you luck and continued success.

Orion

Orion,

You are quiet correct. However, do not swallow the camel and choke on the fly.
And what I mean by inversion is to switch the voltage and amperage to keep the same amount of wattage. 33.3 volts times 3000 milliamperes is 100 watts (roughly). And 400 volts times 250 milliamperes is also 100 watts.
Imagine you are the captain of a trash barge. You sail down the bay to the mouth of the river. The river is 40 feet wide but your barge is 50 feet wide. This leaves two intial choices: 1) turn and go home or 2) dig out the edges of the river. You quickly realize that digging the river's edge will cost more than you will make in twenty lifetimes. So it is impossible; and this is what you teach your sons and it's passed down from generation to generation.
To liken this to my project; it is impossible through efficiencies to get out more than you put in. Through efficiencies you will need a 100% efficient solar cell, a 100% LED, it would have to be connected with superconductive wiring(that operates at room temperature) and placed in a 100% reflective box. And this would give you an equal exchange at best. Of course this is only theoretical because there is no such thing as 100% efficient and there never will be.
This is what you are taught and it is 100% correct. Much the same as it is impossible to fit a 50' wide barge into a 40' wide river; it is also impossible to raise the efficiency of a solar cell to put more energy OUT than is being put IN it.
There is another answer. What if you made the barge 30' wide and extended it so that you could carry the same tonage of garbage. By changing the input(the barge.ie length and width) you have now made the impossible..possible.
By inverting the voltage and amperage you can now make it possible. Once you understand the width of the river then by that measure change the barge. The cell produces 42 MaH per 1,000 lumen. 2,000 lumen=84 Milliamperes per Hour from the cell. 3,000 lumen will yield 126 MAH from the cell, etc, etc, etc. By stringing together high voltage LED's in series you can make 1,000 lumen at 22MaH. BY placing these strings in parralel you can make great amounts of light at very little amperage. But to show you mathematically. 400 volts times 500 milliamperes = 200 watts. 200 watts times 80 lumen per watt = 16,000 lumen. 16,000 lumen will be converted into 672 Milliaperes. Of course you will lose some through conversion of light into voltage, some through, heat, Lumen loss, resistance in wiring(ohm's law), etc. etc. etc. But it still does not change the math that much. You put in 400 volts and 500 milliampers and you get out 400 volts and 670 milliamperes. Minus a collective of 100 Mah per hour you still are OU.
,Shawn