Crystal Radio Magic

[jake]

Is this 50 mV with the resonator?

Yes, just like the last sechmatic you posted. With ~2nF on the primary and no antenna.

[jake]

Using a simplified "power" setup with no load makes all this easily visible.

What simplification? Please elaborate.

The signal should be in the primary otherwise there'll be no possibility of powering anything. .....So I'd say the place to be looking is mostly at the primary.

With only the primary setup, (coil and capacitor) and the secondary (no capacitor), No terminal.. and grounded to the house mains or metal fireplace. There are two points of interest. One when the point of highest "activity" is at the top of the secondary, the other is a bit off that when "activity" is highest at one terminal of the primary condenser (only one the other terminal shows nothing).
At both of these points it will wirelessly light an av plug(led and 2 diodes in circle) about 0.25" away.

I'm not sure what makes an av plug light an led wirelessly. I thought it was high voltage but there is none of that here.
It is a loop and it is in the near field so it might be induction??

Anyone know what making the led light up?



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[xee2]

the point of highest "activity" is at the top of the secondary,

This is the normal high voltage point at resonance.

I suspect your radio is working with the house ground because there is a good ground at the circuit breaker box for the power lines. I also suspect that the circuit is not working outside because you do not have it well grounded. Your soil probably has too little moisture to provide a good ground. Grounding to dry soil is like not having a ground. For the ground to function it must have good conductivity to a large area. Even if there is not a good ground for the power lines, the wiring in your house covers a large area with good conductivity which is probably large enough to be a good ground.

However, I am puzzled by your being able to get a signal without the coil. This may indicate that the power line ground is not very good and the house wiring is acting like an antenna.

[dR-Green]

What simplification? Please elaborate.[/URL]

If you remove all the diodes from the radio setup and the load from the power setup then you are left with only a capacitor across the primary so a very simple arrangement. As far as I can make out the bulb affects the capacitance/tuning so the 2nd cap is possibly in series with the bulb to reduce the extra capacitance. Either way if you just use the single cap and no load you can see on the scope how the reception (or "activity" in the primary) changes by adjusting the primary capacitance and the secondary condenser plates accordingly.

With my spiral for example by setting it up like that and tuning for best signal in the primary with no loads at all except a scope, to hear the radio all I need to do is place the C0 plate from Eric's radio diagram 25+cm away from the secondary terminal. That reduces the voltage in the primary but not too much because it's so far away relatively. This is probably where the flat spiral and TMT start to differ more significantly, but employing variable condenser plates and a separate receiver/C0 plate is a big improvement over using the C0 plate as both the receiver and tuning condenser, before needing to be within 5cm distance of the terminal to bring the frequency down enough and still hear the radio. Now it's already tuned without the C0 plate as can be seen in the primary.

Does the LED still light if you remove the speaker? It could be acting like a microphone although I don't see why it would work only in certain places in that case. It would be interesting if it still lights without the speaker

[jake]

This is the normal high voltage point at resonance.

I suspect your radio is working with the house ground because there is a good ground at the circuit breaker box for the power lines. I also suspect that the circuit is not working outside because you do not have it well grounded. Your soil probably has too little moisture to provide a good ground. Grounding to dry soil is like not having a ground. For the ground to function it must have good conductivity to a large area. Even if there is not a good ground for the power lines, the wiring in your house covers a large area with good conductivity which is probably large enough to be a good ground.

The ground component is the next item on my agenda as soon as the large plate primary condenser is working at the same level as the current set up.
Thanks to recent Dollard transmissions on his thread I can finish that up. without excuse.

But the ground is still a mystery to me. Important as it is, how it is supposed to fuction is not clear in my head. I want to lay the ground system, one piece(radial) at at time and get a feel for what changes it makes to this setup. I also have not decided if I want to use the 17 rod or 80 wire radial Eric recommended.

[jake]

If you remove all the diodes from the radio setup and the load from the power setup then you are left with only a capacitor across the primary so a very simple arrangement. As far as I can make out the bulb affects the capacitance/tuning so the 2nd cap is possibly in series with the bulb to reduce the extra capacitance. Either way if you just use the single cap and no load you can see on the scope how the reception (or "activity" in the primary) changes by adjusting the primary capacitance and the secondary condenser plates accordingly.

Nice, you just made me notice that the radio setup doide/capacitor/high z arrangement looks like the "AV plug / speaker" I made. Just replace the capacitor with the LED.

With my spiral for example by setting it up like that and tuning for best signal in the primary with no loads at all except a scope, to hear the radio all I need to do is place the C0 plate from Eric's radio diagram 25+cm away from the secondary terminal. That reduces the voltage in the primary but not too much because it's so far away relatively. This is probably where the flat spiral and TMT start to differ more significantly, but employing variable condenser plates and a separate receiver/C0 plate is a big improvement over using the C0 plate as both the receiver and tuning condenser, before needing to be within 5cm distance of the terminal to bring the frequency down enough and still hear the radio. Now it's already tuned without the C0 plate as can be seen in the primary.

Does the LED still light if you remove the speaker? It could be acting like a microphone although I don't see why it would work only in certain places in that case. It would be interesting if it still lights without the speaker

Yes it will light without the speaker. I have three different plugs I have been playing with. They all light the led.
One is just like the one in the picture. Another is just like that but also has a ~50pf cap across it. The last does not have the speaker or capacitor.

Capacitance is needed on either side of the LED between the diodes and LED. I can hold it or sometimes just attaching an lead will work. If I feed it a signal using an extra 1 turn tuning coil it will light without the capacitance on the LED.

ALSO and a bit off topic but... IF YOU THUMP THE CRYSTAl SPEAKER THE LED BLINKS SUPER BRIGHT... It cought me off guard. And took me about 10 seconds to realize what happened.

I knew the potential for that to happen was there but I never thought it would do that to an LED with a little tiny thump.

now back to work.

[jpolakow]

There's more material on the Eric Dollard thread, the recent writing on the Bolinas Antenna that applies to this. There's more information on the subject there. Eric asked me to make sure you guys saw that information. Also a lot of your questions have been answered there. Eric also said he is very impressed with your guys' work so far.

[jake]

There's more material on the Eric Dollard thread, the recent writing on the Bolinas Antenna that applies to this. There's more information on the subject there. Eric asked me to make sure you guys saw that information. Also a lot of your questions have been answered there. Eric also said he is very impressed with your guys' work so far.

Thanks, I always try keep up to date on the Dollard thread. Great info. I hope Eric knows how much we appreciate his experience, direction and help.



@ all,

When I took my primary off to try and solder on the capacitor I realized that I don't know which way it should be wound.

Do you wrap in the same direction as the secondary, then overlap the first turn? (that's how I have it now) OR after one turn go under the first turn?

Does it matter?

Also how close are the turns on the primary? Eric said closely spaced. Does that mean as close as possible. I have about 1/8" spacing now but I was thinking I could get closer and use paper as the spacer. It becomes important to know this before you add you capacitor. Changing the spacing after I have attached the capacitor will cause the plates to be misaligned.

What effect does spacing have on the primary and how does that carry over to the secondary? I tried to experiment with this but I noticed that if I make the spacing larger I end up shorter on the number of turns. That is changing two variables at once and I can't draw any conclusions.

My thoughts are with 2 turns fixed: more spacing = more inductance(increased area), but also less capacitance between turns. ???


Thanks,

[xee2]

Does it matter?

I would say that it does not matter for capacitance. However, the current flow should be in the same direction as the secondary turns. The spacing between turns changes the self capacitance of the loop. Less spacing equals more capacitance. Moving turns closer together is like adding parallel capacitance so it will effect the tuning.

[Aether]

Editeditedit

[t-rex]

Post numbers here refer to the Crystal Radio Magic Thread

Post 73, Jake.

Standing wave on coil indicates proper operation. A voltage node must exist exactly at the neutral terminal. Tesla could move this node about in the earth. This is important and in an optimum state the voltage node is right at the point of earthing. A projected wave velocity exist on the earth surface, infinite at the earth connection, and luminal 90 degrees around the planet. It is a tangent function with Pi over two as the "Effective velocity". Hence velocity here is only a projection on the earth surface, not a true velocity, like your shadow at sundown it goes to infinity.

Post 136, Madhatter.

The B field is a bad way to look at this. It is a physics dingleberry. B is a dimensional relation with a per centimetre square. Here it is best to use versor magnetic induction k Phi, see last part of Theory of Wireless Power. Mutual inductance is longitudinal so that coupling remains for concatenated longitudinal resonators. Wave direction now has a role in coupling.

Post 143, Madhatter

Wave direction coupling makes balance to unbalance transformation impossible, this gives the "dead phase" extra coil. If it is a balanced system, every part of that system must be push-pull. Unbalanced unit has neutral on one side of primary, a balanced unit has neutral on primary center tap. All concatenated coils must be wound in same direction as wave propogation spiraling around them.

Post 156, Jake

Do not replace 100 pF condenser with LED, it will distort and rob power from the audio. Use a completely separate setup for LED. Try Ne 2 neon lamps. Also a 10-15 watt fluorescent lamp is a good standing wave "wand", this for tuning.

I would recommend using a GSN7 Triode section with cathode drive from function generator and the primary as the plate tank circuit. See the figure. This will greatly improve resonance for tuning. 50 Ohm across primary NFG, GSN7>6000 Ohm general.

Multiple tuning peaks indicate overly tight coupling between coils. Slowly separate them until only one resonant peak. Multiple modes of stray reception and strong local stations will make grounding and tuning very confusing. An isolation amplifier GSN7 triode isolates amplifier from function generator interaction and gives more power to light neon lamps. Both sections of GSN7 in parallel give more power.

73 DE N6KPH

[madhatter]

Post numbers here refer to the Crystal Radio Magic Thread

Post 136, Madhatter.

The B field is a bad way to look at this. It is a physics dingleberry. B is a dimensional relation with a per centimetre square. Here it is best to use versor magnetic induction k Phi, see last part of Theory of Wireless Power. Mutual inductance is longitudinal so that coupling remains for concatenated longitudinal resonators. Wave direction now has a role in coupling.

I'll re-review that, also I was pointed towards the 2002 Oerstad Medal Lecture that covers the need to use geometric algebra -Clifford algebra- to reduce the fragmentation physics has undergone with the avoidance of vectors.

Post 143, Madhatter

Wave direction coupling makes balance to unbalance transformation impossible, this gives the "dead phase" extra coil. If it is a balanced system, every part of that system must be push-pull. Unbalanced unit has neutral on one side of primary, a balanced unit has neutral on primary center tap. All concatenated coils must be wound in same direction as wave propogation spiraling around them.

I figured that may be the issue when driving the CW set and then placing a sheet of plexi between them then the CCW was able to be tuned. more experimentation to follow as time permits.

Post 156, Jake

Do not replace 100 pF condenser with LED, it will distort and rob power from the audio. Use a completely separate setup for LED. Try Ne 2 neon lamps. Also a 10-15 watt fluorescent lamp is a good standing wave "wand", this for tuning.

I would recommend using a GSN7 Triode section with cathode drive from function generator and the primary as the plate tank circuit. See the figure. This will greatly improve resonance for tuning. 50 Ohm across primary NFG, GSN7>6000 Ohm general.

Multiple tuning peaks indicate overly tight coupling between coils. Slowly separate them until only one resonant peak. Multiple modes of stray reception and strong local stations will make grounding and tuning very confusing. An isolation amplifier GSN7 triode isolates amplifier from function generator interaction and gives more power to light neon lamps. Both sections of GSN7 in parallel give more power.

73 DE N6KPH

Thanks for the input and the time to respond to our efforts here.

Have you read any of Julius Adam Strattons' notes? I was going over his notes on electromagnetic theory from 1941 as he has what I've found to be the most coverage of electrostatic energy and fields.
excerpt:
Conductors play an especially prominent role in electrostatics. For
the purposes of a purely macroscopic theory it is sufficient to consider
a conductor as a closed domain within which charge moves freely. If
the conductor is a metal or electrolyte, the flow of charge is directly
proportional to the intensity E of the electric field: J = aE. Charge is
free to move on the surface of a conductor but can leave it only under
the influence of very intense external fields or at high temperatures
(thermal emission). If the conductor is in electrostatic equilibrium all
flow of charge has ceased, whence it is evident that at every interior
point of a conductor in an electrostatic field the resultant field intensity E
is zero, and at every point on its surface the tangential component of E is zero.
Furthermore the electrostatic potential within a conductor is constant and
the surface of every conductor is an equipotential. Let us suppose that an
uncharged conductor is introduced into a fixed external field E . In the
.first instant there occurs a transient current.

[Aaron]

Crystal Radio Initiative

We filmed a new video presentation of the Crysta Radio Initative with Eric Dollard and will be posting info on it and a compilation of related forum posts. Stay tuned...

[Aaron]

Crystal Radio Initaitive

Book for Crystal Radio Initiative page 20 & 21 has been corrected and is available at same download link.

It's all available through Crystal Radio Initative