Crystal Radio Magic

[madhatter]

The secondary length is given by C/omega or C/(2piF). As stated by Eric this is pi/2 shorter.. Shorter than what(w)? [pi/2 = 90* = 1/4 cycle]

So pi/2 less than one cycle is 3pi/2 or 3/4 of a cycle.

So what is the standard that we are taking away from? In terms of pi.

The secondary is in radians not degrees, so the wave length is equal to it's arc length.

Erics comment of the pi over two longer or shorter is by my understanding the reference to -j operator which is a pi/2 multiplication rotation of the B field.

I'm working on some other relations for the extra coil at the moment using hyperbolic trig and will post as soon as I have something.

[jake]

Pi/2 = 1.5707
1.57... rads is 90*

Pi = 180*
1 rad = 180*/pi = 57.29577*

90* is the multiplication of -j rotation. reference to Steinmetz and the operator, also it's the rotation of the B field and hence the reason for the increased velocity.

The secondary length is given by C/omega or C/(2piF). As stated by Eric this is pi/2 shorter.. Shorter than what(w)? [pi/2 = 90* = 1/4 cycle]

So pi/2 less than one cycle is 3pi/2 or 3/4 of a cycle.

So what is the standard that we are taking away from? In terms of pi.

[madhatter]

If the secondary is Pi over two shorter, the extra coil is Pi over two longer what is the actual length in rad.

It been a long time since I worked in radians. Is this correct:

pi/2 shorter = ((3*pi)/2)*'?'
pi/2 longer = ((5*pi)/2)*'?'

?= cycle or wave or...

Pi/2 = 1.5707
1.57... rads is 90*

Pi = 180*
1 rad = 180*/pi = 57.29577*

90* is the multiplication of -j rotation. reference to Steinmetz and the operator, also it's the rotation of the B field and hence the reason for the increased velocity.

[jake]

5) PI over two; this factor appears twice in the Crystal Radio Initiative, C.R.I. The (20%) secondary coil "effective" propogation velocity is the velocity of light in the space in which it occupies. Here the Pi over two factoris an offsetof a unit value to shorten the winding to compensate for the heavy external loading that the secondary is loaded with, that is, the external inductance and capacitance from the earth and extra coil connections. The aspect ratio of 1 to 1 on the extra coil gives an "effective" propogation of 187% the velocity of light, hence the winding length must be made greater in order to get a quarter wave resonance at a higher speed. This is brought down to Pi over 2 percent, 157%, the velocity of light to compensate for the burden upon the extra coil, this mostly arising from the dielectric upon which this coil is wound. The secondary is Pi over two shorter, the extra coil is Pi over two longer. Golly Mr. Wizard that's Pi squared over four! Do not hunt for magic where it is not, this is all experimental. So go experiment.

.

If the secondary is Pi over two shorter, the extra coil is Pi over two longer what is the actual length in rad.

It been a long time since I worked in radians. Is this correct:

pi/2 shorter = ((3*pi)/2)*'?'
pi/2 longer = ((5*pi)/2)*'?'

?= cycle or wave or...

[xee2]

:
6 - 330pF across the primary and the system is happiest at 1640. It is now louder with only a ground(house ground) than it was with the fireplace antenna and I can listen to the piezo earpiece well without even touching the diode to the secondary. It will also light an led.

Fantastic.

[madhatter]

David, you're not going to like this and I mean no insult to you at all. Your calcs are still based on the velocity of C, Eric is clear and adamant that this is wrong! any and all variations of the harmonics based on the propagation speed of light will result in the wrong direction being taken.

If I have somehow missed where you've taken this into account please point it out to me

I agree with Eric on the increased velocity propagation to what extent is where it needs fine tuning. the rotation of the B field is where the velocity start to increase and is a cos value, how far that rotation is, well... that's a good question.

[jake]

When close together the inductance of each coil will be increased by the other coil. The coil with the highest Q will primarily effect self resonant frequency. You should set SRF of secondary then gradually move primary closer re-tuning the SRF of each coil as you move them together.

This is how I measure self resonant frequency.

6 - 330pF across the primary and the system is happiest at 1640. It is now louder with only a ground(house ground) than it was with the fireplace antenna and I can listen to the piezo earpiece well without even touching the diode to the secondary. It will also light an led.

So now I need that 2 plate capacitor I was talking about earlier. That way the capacitor metal will match the primary metal.

[madhatter]

MadHatter,
You are incorrect and please read the URL I posted as it very clearly states that the 0.637 point is AVERAGE VALUE (Vav) and 0.707 is RMS VALUE (Vrms).
I have been in this game a long time and know what is what.
Please check your facts before responding to anything I have presented.
I don't mind criticism but this is BS!

Yes, it is the average value, my mistake in calling it rms. It is the average of half the sine wave and is normally applied to a rectified waveform.

Look forward to your results, and further development of the equations your using.

[xee2]

@ David G Dawson

It is great to have someone who understands what EPD was doing. Can you explain the purpose of the "primary" copper sheet coil. As far as I can tell it is just adding capacitance to the secondary coil by way of mutual coupling.

[jake]

Outch!!

MadHatter,
You are incorrect and please read the URL I posted as it very clearly states that the 0.637 point is AVERAGE VALUE (Vav) and 0.707 is RMS VALUE (Vrms).
I have been in this game a long time and know what is what.
Please check your facts before responding to anything I have presented.
I don't mind criticism but this is BS!

Jake,
All very well but look at this:
1.557 x 2pi = 9.7829 Mhz and then go look at my drawing as it is the very same 9.7829 Mhz.
1.557 x (pi/2) x4 = 9.7829 Mhz.
All the waveshape drawing that I presented represents is the point at which we are working at with our AM Radio Station signal with respect to a Hertzian 1/4 Wave system.

If you people are not going to listen to an oldtimer with a great deal of experience in OU research, then I will just disappear into the bush just like Eric has done.

One thing I should make note of is the direction of winding.
My Primary and Secondary are both CCW but for some unknown reason I stood on the wrong side whilst winding my first WORKING Extra and wound it CW - opposite.
The new Extra is also wound CCW but does not work or is difficult to get to work and my drawing shows why.

Eric states clearly to wind ALL Coils in the same direction but I may have accidentally stumbled across another discovery which I will prove out on my return.

Not going to sit here working out all the Math problems and for all of you to not understand and discredit.
If you are so blind that you cannot see what I am presenting then I will simply fade into the distance, again like Eric.

What you may not realise is that what is being presented before your very eyes is the entire secret to winding coils like Don Smith and Kapanadze use but nobody knows why they work and all their efforts were/are of an empirical nature.

What Kapanadze is currently using is a split Copper main core and this is his Primary as he is attempting to build as Eric has shown with all the Math that I am fully supporting as shown above and replicates a Tesla Magnifying Transformer (TMT).

What the Kapanadze device now needs is the Secondary and Extra Coils to be wound using the data that I have supplied and we should have our OU device.
The only outstanding question is the direction to wind the Extra Coil and I will clear that up when I return.

I am sorry to be working with people that cannot see the light when it has all been presented before you and very clearly at that with full reference to Eric's theory and in agreement.

Didn't you hear that my Extra Coil WORKED first time using Eric's Math but on the MULTIPLY side and NOT the DIVIDE side - what do you need to see the LIGHT!?

If I am beginning to sound like Eric then you may wake up and realise why, some day.

The information passed on from this 'discovery' even shows clearly that Tesla may have made a mistake with his operating fequency and he chose the wrong side of his 96 Khz base frequency and used the 60 Khz side instead of the 149 Khz side.
This may be why he had tuning problems as his work was of an empirical nature without a solid working Math base which we now have thanks to Eric and some accidental discoveries.
Tesla may also have had technical equipment problems at the higher frequency and why he chose the lower.

WAKE UP!

Smokey

Smokey,

Math does not mean much to me. Sure it's a tool that simplifies life but to me.. It's just numbers, there all relative.. I need to understand... Once I do that the math is a piece of cake...

I see the Dollard quote as being directly related you your situtation. You did it... Now don't give up on us. Because we are trying to catch up.. It takes us more then two days to build something new. We are trying. I don't have 20 years coil winding experience. And we are in the middle putting together the "whats going on" or at least I am

Now buck up, get back to work, and tell us what happens with your next extra coil.... I'm taking notes, trust me...

[Farmhand]

In the Colorado Springs notes Tesla does mention winding half or part of the
secondary the opposite way or another coil or something, I'll try to find the
reference . ahah page 69 figure 2. A few of the top turns of the secondary

Cheers

[ewizard]

Thanks also for the info on the split copper. Zilano mentioned that also recently and about 2 years ago I came across a video that demonstrated something quite impossible looking with a split copper tube device. I was trying to get more info at the time but some said it was nothing special. Looks like maybe it is after all. I really appreciate your showing the calcs and the coil info too. I should know the calcs being a Ham but I've been out of touch so long with that it's good to see it here again as it should be easy to extrapolate any needed calcs for other frequencies or sizes from what you have shown.

[ewizard]

Thanks Smokey! That's a biggy and I believe I get it now. Please don't take any offense at those who may not yet get it. There are lots of different levels people are at here. BTW you now have your own Folder on my hard drive

[David G Dawson]

Wish to Correct

I miss the old thread and all the goodies hidden in it.

MadHatter,
You are incorrect and please read the URL I posted as it very clearly states that the 0.637 point is AVERAGE VALUE (Vav) and 0.707 is RMS VALUE (Vrms).
I have been in this game a long time and know what is what.
Please check your facts before responding to anything I have presented.
I don't mind criticism but this is BS!

Jake,
All very well but look at this:
1.557 x 2pi = 9.7829 Mhz and then go look at my drawing as it is the very same 9.7829 Mhz.
1.557 x (pi/2) x4 = 9.7829 Mhz.
All the waveshape drawing that I presented represents is the point at which we are working at with our AM Radio Station signal with respect to a Hertzian 1/4 Wave system.

If you people are not going to listen to an oldtimer with a great deal of experience in OU research, then I will just disappear into the bush just like Eric has done.

One thing I should make note of is the direction of winding.
My Primary and Secondary are both CCW but for some unknown reason I stood on the wrong side whilst winding my first WORKING Extra and wound it CW - opposite.
The new Extra is also wound CCW but does not work or is difficult to get to work and my drawing shows why.

Eric states clearly to wind ALL Coils in the same direction but I may have accidentally stumbled across another discovery which I will prove out on my return.

Not going to sit here working out all the Math problems and for all of you to not understand and discredit.
If you are so blind that you cannot see what I am presenting then I will simply fade into the distance, again like Eric.

What you may not realise is that what is being presented before your very eyes is the entire secret to winding coils like Don Smith and Kapanadze use but nobody knows why they work and all their efforts were/are of an empirical nature.

What Kapanadze is currently using is a split Copper main core and this is his Primary as he is attempting to build as Eric has shown with all the Math that I am fully supporting as shown above and replicates a Tesla Magnifying Transformer (TMT).

What the Kapanadze device now needs is the Secondary and Extra Coils to be wound using the data that I have supplied and we should have our OU device.
The only outstanding question is the direction to wind the Extra Coil and I will clear that up when I return.

I am sorry to be working with people that cannot see the light when it has all been presented before you and very clearly at that with full reference to Eric's theory and in agreement.

Didn't you hear that my Extra Coil WORKED first time using Eric's Math but on the MULTIPLY side and NOT the DIVIDE side - what do you need to see the LIGHT!?

If I am beginning to sound like Eric then you may wake up and realise why, some day.

The information passed on from this 'discovery' even shows clearly that Tesla may have made a mistake with his operating fequency and he chose the wrong side of his 96 Khz base frequency and used the 60 Khz side instead of the 149 Khz side.
This may be why he had tuning problems as his work was of an empirical nature without a solid working Math base which we now have thanks to Eric and some accidental discoveries.
Tesla may also have had technical equipment problems at the higher frequency and why he chose the lower.

WAKE UP!

Smokey

[jake]

1/4 and 3/4 according to EPD

@All struggling with 1/4 and 3/4

There is no inductance, capacitance, or wavelength. The wavlenght I gave of c/omega is not the standard wavelength. The standard way is c/f, then take 1/4th of that. That's the electromagnetic wavelength. The coils are not electromagnetic devices. Wire length is calculated by c/omega. A factor of 2pi is involved, so it's c/2*pi*f. There is no quarter. This gives a wirelength that is now 2 over pi shorter. There is no inductance and capacity to compensate or think about, the coil is both. They are not separated. Read the article in 7 parts just put in, paying special attention to the section labeled disruptive discharges. In the Colorado Springs all you want to look for is the final dimensions of the Magnifying Transmitter. Other than some circuit diagrams and final dimensions there's not much there of any use for coil design. Tesla was figuring stuff out as he was going along, he was struggling to figure out what was going on, he had nothing to work with. So read the Colorado Springs notes and share in his confusion.

I miss the old thread and all the goodies hidden in it.