Crystal Radio Magic

[jake]

I've seen videos of people lighting av plugs wirelessly from an SEC. What kind of voltages(primary and secondary)/frequencies are needed to get this effect?

[xee2]

I have several videos posted on youtube at xee2vids. 1.5 volts will light fluorescent tube a foot away wirelessly.
Slayer exciter circuit - 1 AA battery - YouTube

[jake]

xee2,
What kind of voltages were your getting on the secondary coil?

[xee2]

xee2,
What kind of voltages were your getting on the secondary coil?

Unknown. but I think over 20,000 volts.

[jake]

20kv nice

I played around with HV a lot last year. 50uF spark discharges of up to 5000V. Neon sign transformers and spark gaps are fun. I could light neons 15' away when stuck into the ground. The whole plastic as conductor also worked with NSTs.


I also did 3 Henry discharges/oscillations. Only 24v but scary with the amps I knew were there. I melted 4 neons in parallel this way. It only took 12 volts to melt 1 neon.

Any following Tesla's advice I went with smaller and smaller caps and faster and faster frequencies. That is when Eric came out with the crystal initiative and I thought that would be a good way to learn the in and outs of HF.

As I proceed I am trying to figure out what is HF related and what is HV related. I am so used to working with and reading about HF/HV at the same time I forgot that they are each their own entity.

I am starting to like this HF stuff.

[jake]

@madhatter,

What causes the two small peaks on each side of the large resonant point? I don't have a scope but they "show" up as audio on the piezo. It lets me know I'm getting close.

[madhatter]

it may have to do with the phase shift, before resonance the current leads the voltage at resonance it is in phase and after the current lags the emf. The shift may be what you're picking up.

[xee2]

@madhatter,

What causes the two small peaks on each side of the large resonant point? I don't have a scope but they "show" up as audio on the piezo. It lets me know I'm getting close.

I am not sure what your setup is so this is hard to answer. But it is probably the modulation on the carrier. This shows up as sidebands in the frequency domain. You can sometimes even see this from signal generators due to 60 Hz leakage.

[David G Dawson]

Smokey - Introduction

Hello All,
Here to introduce myself and have an Extra Coil discovery that you all need to know about which I will post shortly.
Have been over at 'n6kph' and working with, David, Jake, Scott and Gary Peterson of 'TFCBooks' and all have been most helpful.
This introduction is a copy of one I made at n6kph in response to a Post:

Gary,
These tests of Erics are designed to gain some distance tuning knowledge with the Extra Coil and with the Secondary test, to tune in the local AM Station via the Hertzian component and not the Telluric.

I have four Oscilloscopes, 1 x 100 Mhz (HP 1741A), 2 x Tektronix Valve and a Telequipment solid state which is UK Tektronix.
Have a fully set up Lab that has basically taken me 10 years to acquire or build the required tools.
Only thing I don't have is a Spectrum Analyser and working on that now.
Am not a Ham but fully qualified to be so and have a considerable collection of Vacuum Tubes that go along with my research, Moray/Ion Valve/Smith/Kapanadze type research.
I am 70 years of age and been at this full time since retiring 10 years ago.
I am ex Radio Station, RANavy, NASA Tidbinbilla Space Track and finally electronic designing for the Auto Industry.
Repairing a Yaesu FT-901 Transceiver due to its AM driver capabilities ready for the next step but these initial problems need to be overcome with respect to design.
Yes, I have seen your repeated information but can only do one step at a time and will get to do your Oscilloscope tests at the right time which is not right now as the working data is suspect as is my Extra Coil.
I am also into Aetheric Weather Engineering after Wilhelm Reich and TJ Constable etc which is another story again but helps with the Aetheric ubderstanding associated with all of this.
I have 13 devices here that can make it rain and all of which are not recognised by 'science' just as is Tesla's TMT and why I am also following this path.
Letting you know where I come from.

Smokey

[David G Dawson]

Extra Coil Math Discovery

This Post is repeated at 'n6kph'.

A Discovery - Extra Coil:
I find repeatedly that simple Maths is a significant part of discovery and has allowed me to build many devices that others have failed at or not even bothered with, all because it appeared too hard.
I now have two Extra Coils, one considered wrong Math and the newer considered the correct Math.
Question to me was that the old worked and the new doesn't but why?
You may remember me saying that my first attempt at this coil worked as I was picking up my local 2 Kw station with the Headphone capacitor antenna some 8 to 10" away from the Extra Coil and it was proven to be a Telluric signal and not Hertzian.

The Math:
Old Coil data - works:
CalcF = 1.557 Mhz (1.557 x pi/2 = 2.4457) MULTIPLY
53 turns of 14 awg (same as Secondary wire size) with a diameter of 195.2mm
L = 30.829 meters (9.7244 Mhz)
Actual 1/4 wave Fres = 2.4655 Mhz AFTER F 1.557 Mhz
Error long by 198 Hz which means I need more turns over the 53 I did have but probably only one required and this should increase signal strength as well.

New Coil data - doesn't work:
Calc F = 1.557 Mhz (1.557 / pi/2 = 991.2 Khz) DIVIDE
125 turns of 21 awg with diameter of 195.2mm.
L = 75.61 meters (3.965 Mhz)
Actual 1/4 wave Fres = 991.4 Khz BEFORE F 1.557 Mhz

What this is saying is that you need to find the 1/4 Wave point from your number of turns and that needs to match your signal frequency MULTIPLIED by pi/2. (1.557 x (pi/2) = 2.4457 Mhz)

When I had completed the first coil I was happy with the Math and why I went ahead with the build.
It is only now, on analysis that the Math can be presented on paper and you can see what is happening here.
What I first built was, I feel, correct as the pi component is at the correct point AFTER the centre point going on to the full 1/4 wave and not before the 1/8th wave point.
This AFTER point is where Tesla's 'standing wave' is permitted/allowed to occur.
The second coil has its pi point BEFORE the 1/8 wave point and cannot resonate correctly and will be difficult to tune as is noted in the documentation many times.
What is of significance here is exactly where the pi point is (where your reference signal is) and is not a harmonic or octave or any of the regular resonance points but WITHIN THE FULL QUARTER WAVE at the 1/4 wave/pi/2 point and this is where your reference signal is located. (2.4457/(pi/2) = 1.557 Mhz)

If your Extra Coil does not work or is difficult to tune then the above will explain why.
If you then build a new Coil to the guide above, you will meet with guaranteed success as proven above.

I now have a difficult challenge to figure out if Tesla was on the wrong side with his pi point and working on that now.
I will be building a new coil on a new more open frame but adding one more turn to home in on the exact point as I still have the original wire ready to rewind.
Will advise as I proceed.
Hope you can understand what is documented above.
You MUST know your simple Maths if you are ever going to succeed in this business as I relate from empirical experience.
Good luck with your builds.
Will introduce myself over at Energetic and present this document as well.
Thanks.

Smokey

PS:
If anybody can see an obvious piece of data that I have overlooked, please respond.
David,
Would like to hear Eric's comments on this 'discovery'
Thanks.

[jake]

Good to see you here.

[Web000x]

This Post is repeated at 'n6kph'.

A Discovery - Extra Coil:
I find repeatedly that simple Maths is a significant part of discovery and has allowed me to build many devices that others have failed at or not even bothered with, all because it appeared too hard.
I now have two Extra Coils, one considered wrong Math and the newer considered the correct Math.
Question to me was that the old worked and the new doesn't but why?
You may remember me saying that my first attempt at this coil worked as I was picking up my local 2 Kw station with the Headphone capacitor antenna some 8 to 10" away from the Extra Coil and it was proven to be a Telluric signal and not Hertzian.

The Math:
Old Coil data - works:
CalcF = 1.557 Mhz (1.557 x pi/2 = 2.4457) MULTIPLY
53 turns of 14 awg (same as Secondary wire size) with a diameter of 195.2mm
L = 30.829 meters (9.7244 Mhz)
Actual 1/4 wave Fres = 2.4655 Mhz AFTER F 1.557 Mhz
Error long by 198 Hz which means I need more turns over the 53 I did have but probably only one required and this should increase signal strength as well.

New Coil data - doesn't work:
Calc F = 1.557 Mhz (1.557 / pi/2 = 991.2 Khz) DIVIDE
125 turns of 21 awg with diameter of 195.2mm.
L = 75.61 meters (3.965 Mhz)
Actual 1/4 wave Fres = 991.4 Khz BEFORE F 1.557 Mhz

What this is saying is that you need to find the 1/4 Wave point from your number of turns and that needs to match your signal frequency MULTIPLIED by pi/2. (1.557 x (pi/2) = 2.4457 Mhz)

When I had completed the first coil I was happy with the Math and why I went ahead with the build.
It is only now, on analysis that the Math can be presented on paper and you can see what is happening here.
What I first built was, I feel, correct as the pi component is at the correct point AFTER the centre point going on to the full 1/4 wave and not before the 1/8th wave point.
This AFTER point is where Tesla's 'standing wave' is permitted/allowed to occur.
The second coil has its pi point BEFORE the 1/8 wave point and cannot resonate correctly and will be difficult to tune as is noted in the documentation many times.
What is of significance here is exactly where the pi point is (where your reference signal is) and is not a harmonic or octave or any of the regular resonance points but WITHIN THE FULL QUARTER WAVE at the 1/4 wave/pi/2 point and this is where your reference signal is located. (2.4457/(pi/2) = 1.557 Mhz)

If your Extra Coil does not work or is difficult to tune then the above will explain why.
If you then build a new Coil to the guide above, you will meet with guaranteed success as proven above.

I now have a difficult challenge to figure out if Tesla was on the wrong side with his pi point and working on that now.
I will be building a new coil on a new more open frame but adding one more turn to home in on the exact point as I still have the original wire ready to rewind.
Will advise as I proceed.
Hope you can understand what is documented above.
You MUST know your simple Maths if you are ever going to succeed in this business as I relate from empirical experience.
Good luck with your builds.
Will introduce myself over at Energetic and present this document as well.
Thanks.

Smokey

PS:
If anybody can see an obvious piece of data that I have overlooked, please respond.
David,
Would like to hear Eric's comments on this 'discovery'
Thanks.

Smokey,

I like the Energetic Forum 'style' so I will ask questions here. Also, Eric is more apt to see info posted on the forum and not the Yahoo group since he doesn't know how to navigate it. Discussion here in the open is going to preserve these conversations on one thread for Eric to see since there is no way I can remember all details that he might like to know. How did you arrive at your calculations? I only briefly looked but couldn't find how you got a calculated frequency of 1.557 MHz.

That being said, if you can present your findings in a manner that builds them up from Eric's initial design equations to where your experiments have taken you, I will refer Eric to this thread. He told me the other day that he wanted to check the forum again to see if there has been any activity so he is looking for somebody with a computer to use.

Geometric_Algebra has been the only one to be able to functionally correspond with Eric thru the postal service. Eric received a letter from Geometric_Algebra that included coil dimensions, measurements, errors, etc. and sent back a response that is on the Eric P. Dollard thread. If you send Eric something that is a worthwhile question, he will respond. However, since you seem to be on the other side of the world, you should document your results here on this forum either in this thread or Eric's thread so that you are using a medium that Eric is used to.

I would be more than willing to use my own printer and paper to get questions to Eric for everybody that doesn't have convenient access the the United States Postal Service. However, I have no money and my printer is out of ink. If somebody wants to help with these problems, I will print and mail all day long. Otherwise, hope that Eric can have access to the forum long enough to fully digest your post or you'll have to mail him from your location.

Sorry about the inconveniences,

Dave

[David G Dawson]

Extra Coil Confirmation

Confirmation:
Here is the Tesla data based on the Colorado Spring's Notes:
Extra Diameter = 2.52m
One Turn 2pir = 7.9168m
Turns = 100 Total Length = 791.7m
Full Wave = 378.67 Khz
1/4 Wave = 94.6675 Khz
Operating Signal Point 94.6675 MULTIPLY pi/2 = 148.703 Khz
Where Tesla should have been working and NOT here:
94.6675 DIVIDE pi/2 = 60.267 Khz where he was working and supported in the CS Notes 'about 59 Khz'.

Think this is sufficient evidence to point to the base reason why the Extra Coil is so hard to tune and is very much not so at the AFTER and not BEFORE 1/8 Wave point.
It may have been difficult for Tesla to get to the higher frequency where he should and probably knew he should be working at and this is his compromise.
He may have also considered that what he was attempting to achieve would work from both sides and chose the DIVIDE path when he should have gone the MULTIPLY way.
Hope this makes it clear as to what is required with your Extra Coil to make it work.

Am satisfied now that this is the case and will rebuild my Extra Coil to the new dimensions which will be:
F = 1.557 Mhz MULTIPLY (pi/2) = 2.4457 Mhz = 1/4 Wave.
Full wave = 9.78292 Mhz = 30.644 meters
Diameter = 195.2mm (r = 97.6 mm)
1 Turn = 2pir = 613.23 mm
Number of Turns = 30644/613.23 = 49.97
Wire size, same as Secondary and 14 awg in my case.
Number of turns very close to my original figure of 53 but would suggest that you add about 5 extra turns and then trim or better to probe back on turns that you have cleared of insulation when you can get a Sig Gen set on the exact frequency of your station and then tune for maximum gain in the Headphones or on the Intensity meter.
Hope this explanation is now clear to everyone.

Will be honest and say that using 21 awg for the new Extra did not appear correct as I could not see being able to pump this frail device with any watts to achieve a goal.
This IS different!
Will now go build my new Extra Coil and make this fact for good as it has already been proven by empirical means.
I have Tesla nodding approval.
Thanks.

Smokey

[David G Dawson]

Radio Station Frequency

David,
The 1.557 Mhz is my local Radio Station that I am tuning into.
If you follow my last Post it is fully exampled there and shows what I feel Tesla would like to have done but couldn't due to technical shortages of his equipment or he may have just gone the wrong way.

Wish I could help more from afar but not easy - I have 5 Computers here, all the old ones I have fixed their problems and sit here unused or just kept as data monitors.

Think this IS a significant discovery and just needs builders to first understand what I have proposed and then to build following my examples.
The important issue here is where your AM Radio Station sits in the 1/4 Wave and needs to be at the 0.637 point of the 1/4 Wave of your Coil.
From my previous example - 1.557/2.4457 = 0.637 or on the HIGH side of your local AM Radio Station signal
I will now go away and work on what that point is, as it must have some other significance besides pi.
The Tesla way was 1.557/991.2 = 1.5708 or better as a comparison 991.2/1.557 = 0.637 the same but on the LOWER side of your Radio signal.

I knew 0.637 was something to do with AC and here is the connection:

Measuring the Sine Wave

The Average value of a Sine Wave.
Note now the association here with pi and the average value of a Sine or AC wave and this in itself speaks volumes.
This is where the 'magnification' takes place.
Now that we have a 'something' to work with we may be able to make some considerable steps in evolving this Free Enegy that we seek in all of our Coil designs.
Hope you have all been able to follow this unravelling so to speak as it just simply now makes all that much sense.
I have a Coil to build.

As a side note, please note that I have been at Energetic since March 2008 sitting on the sidelines and waitimg for my moment.
Hopefully it has arrived.

Smokey

[madhatter]

some fun with math.
300,000,000 x Pi/2 = 300,000,000 x 1.5707 = 471,238,898.04
300,000,000/471,238,898.04 = 0.636619772
1/(Pi/2) = 0.636619772
2/Pi = 0.636619772
0.636619772 x (2 x Pi) "revolution" = 4 "radians"