Ray Savant - Muhamed - Techzombie Exposed

[garrettm4]

Calm Like a Bomb

TechZ, Dave Webster & John P.,

Awesome responses!

Sometimes social pressure is needed to bring a problem to conclusion. While not the best for every situation, I feel that in this case it was needed. I hope today's rather unexpected turn of events does this in a productive way and Aaron and Eric will give a reply conceding to respect and acknowledge your good intentions. And hopefully from there things can get back on track without ego's getting in the way.

On a side note, I feel I was out of line in bringing up the issue at all, which was my acting on a whim with out consulting your opinions. For which, I would like to apologize to you guys, I really do hope that I haven't caused a greater issue than was prior.


Jimm,

Honestly, I understand your frustration. Truthfully, and regretfully as an instigator, this situation shouldn't have been a public issue, BUT the publicized and "veiled" slandering done by Aaron that occurred on this forum warranted a response, which I personally wasn't going to ignore, as it was directed at people I respect and feel shouldn't have been treated that way. Would you sit idly by and let your friends be publicly slandered?

Hopefully you can over look the issues at present and maybe join everyone here who's interested at another venue to discuss the real topic. I honestly like your comments, and think that you could be a great contributor with unveiling weather or not the telluric system proposed by Eric P Dollard is indeed factual.

I personally apologize for the rebel rousing I've caused.


Raui,

I think you've got an excellent point!

I suggest that anyone here, who really cares about experimenting and building, to join together to start a new forum or other venue to collectively work on the projects presented by Eric and Tesla as well as others.

Boycott the Energetic Forums!

Sometimes a fresh start is needed. Remember the more the merrier, so let's get everyone who's tired of the Energetic Forum and its various woes to join in.


UPDATE:

Come join the new forum over at GarageHacker.com

[Geometric_Algebra]

Cool as a cucumber

One cool head. Check
One clean sheet of paper. Check
A fresh pack of cigarettes. Check
Two gallons of gasoline. Check, Check.

[Aaron]

stay tuned...

I'm pleasantly surprised and shocked at the same time. The amateurs took the bait - I just didn't know it would be that damn quick! Normally, when you give idiots enough rope to hang themselves, it usually takes a while.

First, if they had any common sense and knew what was best for Eric's organization, they would have enough discretion and discernment to keep it private behind closed doors. Their own egos and agendas have always superseded what was in the best interest of Eric Dollard and EPD Labs. Two times now, Webster got his ego bruised and has shown willingness to sabotage Eric's opportunities, funding opportunities, etc... - putting his ego above and beyond what is in the best interest of the organization he is a part of and above and beyond Eric's personal life. I have written proof of all of this.

@Garrett & Raui,

Raui - no comment for your mouth. You prove yourself to be an idiot.

Garrett - you will be apologizing to me later because of your premature slanderous and libelous accusations and insinuations about me. I have no big issue with you YET and think you have simply been deceived and misled by their BS.

@ Ray and John P.

You have just set yourselves up for a lawsuit for libel and slander and you don't have any idea of what else is to come. You do not speak for Eric and he does NOT want you to speak for him. As a matter of fact Ray, Eric wants you to immediately cease and desist any further activities that have anything to do with EPD Labs or Eric Dollard personally. AND, this has been the case for months BEFORE Eric ever came up here.

Ray - you do not have Eric's permission to sell the Lone Pine Writings and he wants you to stop immediately.

@ All, the Lone Pine Writings was put together by David Webster. Eric wanted David to sell the book and give the money to David to help him out. When Eric found out what happened to that book, the s*** hit the fan. Ray took control of the book and started to sell it and is giving the money to someone he hired to film Eric - ALL WITHOUT ERIC'S PERMISSION.

That is just one example of one of the COUNTLESS things that are done in Eric's name - that you all are under the illusion that are approved by Eric - and Eric has NO IDEA ANY OF IT IS GOING ON! When you find out all the rest of the story, you will all want to puke!

@ All, you have all been living under an illusion painted by these people who assumed representation of Eric P. Dollard. The fact of the matter is that for MANY months, Eric has NOT approved of how any of them have represented him and he is telling all of us up here that his organization has been taken control in such a fashion that is not in alignment with what Eric Dollard actually wants.

Every bit of their argument will be destroyed in a logical fashion that can be proven. It will be validated by what my actual involvement is, Eric Dollard himself, and two others and one of them have already agreed to come forward with their story.

Remember, anyone opening their mouths here prematurely have not heard my side of the story and have not heard Eric's side of the story. And you have not heard the story of the 2 MOST significant individuals (besides Eric) involved with Eric's work and those two people - NONE OF YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE - and neither of these 2 people are David Wittekind, Ray Savant (tech zombie), David Webster or John Polakowski. Think about that very relevant point everyone.

Eric is sick and tired of having his work turned into a fricking cartoon with all the back to future crap and other BS that is more suited for some junior high school kid's facebook page, but not a grown man's work who has put his heart and soul into everything he does since before any of these clowns were ever born.

It will be unfortunate for anyone who believes for one second that I have done anything to manipulate Eric or put him against Ray, etc... If anyone convinced anyone of anything while Eric was up here - it was Eric who convinced me that his organization has been commandeered and is acting on its own behalf WITHOUT the knowledge and consent of Eric Dollard. THIS IS AN INDISPUTABLE FACT, WHICH WILL BE PROVEN. I thought on some things Eric may have been overreacting or just paranoid but OOOH NO, he was literally speaking the truth. Very soon, you will all see the truth for yourselves.

They feel Eric is completely incapable of managing his own life, as someone said he is a grown man who doesn't need a "handler". He has his own personal life aside from his work that he wants to manage in his own way without interference of others who feel they know what is best for him. At the end of the conference, besides my own contribution to Eric and the donations I asked the attendees to give directly to Eric, he had over $xxxx in his hands when all was said and done. Immediately after, David Webster made him fork up half of it so they could pay rent on the building.

You all have personally shafted Eric by buying into the crap that he is incapable of doing anything with finances, etc... he is absolutely practical in this matter and knows full well there needs to be rent paid on the building and other related expenses. However, he was told all that was to be taken care of by their own fund raising means and they should never have been relying on ANY donations from the conference. Ray was supposed to work his magic and money would fall from the sky and all that would be taken care of. To pull what David Webster did at the conference is to screw with his personal life. Eric's presentation at the conference is NOT property of the non-profit and it is to generate funds for the dollarddonations paypal account, PERIOD.

Seeing that they needed that money from the conference to pay rent - well, you all can see exactly what a superb team of amateurs are running in circles chasing their own tails while having you all convinced that they're all heroes of the aetheric revolution! All that self-aggrandizing BS turns Eric's stomach by the way. Maxing out credit cards is considered "creative financing"??? - its complete buffoonery! If they had the slightest semblance of any business sense whatsoever, they would know that creative financing is to PREVENT anyone from jeopardizing their own finances and when they stoop to that kind of desperation, it is not to help but because they see dollar signs in their eyes.

I have stated to David Webster BEFORE the conference in no uncertain terms that ANY money generated from the conference was to be put directly into the paypal donation account and NOT the non-profit organization. That is what THEY are there for - to generate funds for that non-profit. They should stay out of any personal business that Eric has with myself or anyone else and they need to drop the illusion that they are entitled to everything Eric does!

They are supposed to be raising their own money for their non-profit business activities! The agreement with the conference was between Eric and I personally. It is none of Ray's business, David Wittekind's business, David Webster's business and not John P's business, period. And, anyone reading this, it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS either for that matter.

I'm more interested in Eric having a functioning car, healthy food to eat and possibly enough money to get his teeth fixed so he can chew into some real fricking food because my interest is in him as a person, while they're only interest is to build some phony revolution for themselves with ulterior motives of stabbing Eric in the back at some point. You will learn that this is actually their plan and Eric and others who have been very close to Eric over the years will verify this. These thugs want to pop off at the mouth and slander me with lies that they're all telling you all - well the truth is about to be rammed down their pathetic little throats in a way that will be irreversible.

I bring this up to make a point. They all wants to control, dominate and own anything that comes from Eric because they have their own agenda - Eric is sick of it! BURN THIS CLEARLY INTO ALL OF YOUR MINDS PEOPLE - THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE WAY BEFORE ERIC EVER CAME HERE TO MY HOME!!! Therefore, it is completely stupid and pathetic for Ray and John P to pop off at the mouth as they are claiming I'm "brainwashing" Eric. I'm saving up a special message for David Webster, who I actually thought was trustworthy and so did everyone else (everyone else that Eric actually does trust) and Ray and few others are not included in that list by the way.

One comment about Ray's misleading lies - online "guerrilla marketing" has nothing to do with screwing people as his dark and shady intentions will have you believe. Anyone that believes that stupidity is a gullible degenerate. Anyone with any kind of online marketing experience understands it only means LOW BUDGET and LOW TECH methods that are unconventional but give highly effective results, no less and no more.

One more thing to keep in mind - I orignally was planning on paying EPD Labs directly with the royalties and commissions for Eric's presentation at the conference. This was BEFORE he ever came up here to my home. Why in the world did that plan transform into me being very adamant about paying it directly to David Webster thru the donations account - BEFORE Eric ever came up here. Meditate on that one everybody. Perhaps there was major distrust within the organization that existed that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WITH ERIC COMING UP TO MY HOME and David Webster knows this to be the truth.

Much of this is a litmus test to see if David Webster will be a snake or will he come clean with the absolute truth as to the sequence of the events. I actually stood up for David as being someone who is honest but misguided and has no sense of discernment to Eric and someone else of high relevance despite the fact that David Webster jumped the gun on me twice with smart ass condescending messages that were uncalled for.

Again, each of their lies will be completely and thoroughly exposed for what they are very soon.

[Aaron]

@Sputins

The dis-harmony between Aaron and David Webster should be sorted out between them, before this all gets too far out of hand, or perhaps it already has. I think Aaron was wrong to post what he did.

The "behind closed doors" route was ignored by David Webster - he decided to bring people into it who had no business receiving official communication from EPD Labs. Ray and John P are not on the board of directors and when David emailed me, it sent it to them and Eric does NOT want any communication coming from EPD Labs because it is speaking for him as well and he does not want ANY of them speaking for him.

There have been various communications to some of them over the last several days and Eric's wishes were CLEARLY communicated to Webster and Wittekind about not wanting to work with Ray and in retaliation to Eric's wishes (which were his wishes for many months before Eric ever came up here) - Webster and Wittekind include Ray in these conversations. They are completely ignoring each and every desire of Eric's - they are walking all over him and some of the members here are obviously too stupid to see that they are going on one side of the story not even knowing what the WHOLE STORY IS.

My message was very specific to flush out the liars and to give them enough rope to hang themselves. With What they posted in their messages, that is all that is needed to bury them and their BS. The truth will be exposed and that is all I have to say.

Thank you for being reasonable and not jumping the gun because you obviously don't know both sides of the story yet either.

[jpolakow]

Response

I'm pleasantly surprised and shocked at the same time. The amateurs took the bait - I just didn't know it would be that damn quick! Normally, when you give idiots enough rope to hang themselves, it usually takes a while.

Normally I would take more offense at the rampant accusations you make against us, but I have seen you behave this way on this forum in the past Aaron. You are quick to take offense about something and generally write an exaggerated, inflamed, emotional response. Others here have witnessed the same. It is clear by the number of responses by other posters here. I knew by posting my point of view here that I was opening myself up to that, however I felt the need to respond to the inaccurate statements you made in your post against EPD Labs. While I may have a differing opinion than you, I still write respectfully and will not call you an "idiot" because I am angry or frustrated. It is unfortunate that you feel you have to respond that way to me.

First, if they had any common sense and knew what was best for Eric's organization, they would have enough discretion and discernment to keep it private behind closed doors.

Yes i would agree, until you forced the situation by posting an accusatory, inaccurate, exaggerated warning in this thread. I would note that as soon as something was posted about you in this thread you immediately replied in an agressive manner. I would like to think at least mine and David Webster's posts were trying to clear up the facts of the issue instead of trying to be inflammatory. If someone accuses you of something publicly is it not fair to respond? I realize there is a difference of opinion here. If you are willing to talk in a reasonable manner, I think it would be beneficial to discuss our perspectives in a non-defensive way, and hopefully a resolution can be made. I don't think that is your intention though.

Their own egos and agendas have always superseded what was in the best interest of Eric Dollard and EPD Labs.

First of all, whose ego are we talking about here. And you know this how? What exactly is my agenda or ego? Even though you have insulted and disrespected me I'm not going to return in kind.I have been trying to put forth as balanced a picture as possible. I think both parties could have done things differently to avoid this situation. I think you are clearly misinformed too. How exactly has mine and David Webster's egos superseded what is in the best interests of Eric by publishing his work for free for the past year and a half. And how has David Wittekind's generous financial donations of nearly 100,000 dollars to Erics lab superseded what is in the best interests of Eric? Have you donated 100,000 dollars to Eric Aaron? Actually have you donated(not paid, there is a difference) any money at all to Eric? The answer to that is no. Not once have you donated to Eric's paypal account, NOT ONCE. IN THE WHOLE PAST TWO YEARS OF ERIC POSTING MATERIAL FOR FREE ON YOUR FORUM HAVE YOU DONATED A SINGLE PENNY TO ERIC's PAYPAL ACCOUNT. I think that statement pretty much tells the whole story of where your interest lies. If you claim you have donated to Eric, it is only in the last month or two you have known him.

@ Ray and John P.

You have just set yourselves up for a lawsuit for libel and slander and you don't have any idea of what else is to come.

Is that a threat or supposed to intimidate me? You're right I do not know what is else to come, as I am not you, and do not know what your intentions for the future are. I do know what my plans for the future are though- to make sure everyone is informed of the FACTS of the situation. How an email was responded to by an agressive response which was then followed by a public posting with inaccurate, ambigous statements. You may not like what my opinion is, or what my perspective is, but I will express it.

And you have not heard the story of the 2 MOST significant individuals (besides Eric) involved with Eric's work and those two people - NONE OF YOU KNOW WHO THEY ARE.

If none of us know who they are, how exactly are they the most significant? It doesn't make any sense.

I am curious to who the MOST SIGNIFICANT individuals are. In fact I will flatly state that they have not been the most significant people in Eric's life for the past 2 years. How do I know that? Because Eric was living with me for a good portion of it! For the past 2 years Dave Webster and I have been publishing Eric's material on this forum. I am not aware of any others working in concert with Eric to advance his work.

Eric is sick and tired of having his work turned into a fricking cartoon with all the back to future crap and other BS that is more suited for some junior high school kid's facebook page, but not a grown man's work who has put his heart and soul into everything he does since before any of these clowns were ever born.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here, but I can quite confidently state that I am not a clown. I doubt you will find any photos of me online wearing clown related attire or costumes either.

I'm more interested in Eric having a functioning car, healthy food to eat and possibly enough money to get his teeth fixed so he can chew into some real fricking food because my interest is in him as a person

That's interesting because you haven't donated anything in the past two years to Eric, even though he spent countless hours writing material for free on your forum. Where were you a year ago when he needed repairs for his car, money for food, or a place to stay?

while they're only interest is to build some phony revolution for themselves with ulterior motives of stabbing Eric in the back at some point. You will learn that this is actually their plan and Eric and others who have been very close to Eric over the years will verify this. These thugs want to pop off at the mouth and slander me with lies that they're all telling you all - well the truth is about to be rammed down their pathetic little throats in a way that will be irreversible.

What on earth are you talking about Aaron? What revolution am I taking part in, and how am I stabbing Eric in the back? It's easy to make blanket accusatory statements like this, without backing it up. Could you please expound? What exactly are the ulterior motives you refer to, please I insist you state it once and for all so that it will be known (because I don't know). If past behavior is any indication, it is that I will continue to pour all my free time and energy into this, in an honest and helpful manner while receiving zero compensation. A review of my post history will reveal that I don't attack others on the forum, or react defensively. That is who I am online, and as a person. That being said I highly doubt you have any ability to ram something down my throat.

I bring this up to make a point. They all wants to control, dominate and own anything that comes from Eric because they have their own agenda - Eric is sick of it! BURN THIS CLEARLY INTO ALL OF YOUR MINDS PEOPLE - THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE WAY BEFORE ERIC EVER CAME HERE TO MY HOME!!! Therefore, it is completely stupid and pathetic for Ray and John P to pop off at the mouth as they are claiming I'm "brainwashing" Eric. I'm saving up a special message for David Webster, who I actually thought was trustworthy and so did everyone else (everyone else that Eric actually does trust) and Ray and few others are not included in that list by the way.

I wasn't popping off at the mouth. I simply stated and continue to state that your accusation of EPD Labs as some kind of nefarious element , with a dog and pony show, trying to stab Eric in the back, is flat out wrong. What can you say to back this up? A dog and pony show would indicate nothing of substance has been done. Let me re-iterate our accomplishments:
-2 years worth of scholarly posts on the EF from Eric, published by us for free for everyone to enjoy
-A large desert laboratory filled with glom
-Another car for Eric
-Over $35,000 raised to help improve the lab
Clearly these accomplishments speak for themselves and counter any accusation of a dog and pony show. I think you are just trying to insult me somehow. In fact I would counter- what gives you the credibility to attack me with these accusations considering you haven't been doing anything to help Eric for the past two years. Well??

Again, each of their lies will be completely and thoroughly exposed for what they are very soon.

I am anxiously awaiting the grand reveal.

I think it is clear here that you aren't in fact speaking for Eric, you don't share his wit or writing style and I refuse to believe anything you say, as it is usually laced with insults, inaccurate information, wild exaggerations, misleading accusations, and downright false statements. Until I hear from Eric I regard everything you write to me as nonsense.

[Aaron]

@David Webster

I was absolutely speechless that my intentions were called nefarious.

David Webster,

The reference to nefarious elements was not a reference to you at all. This is a common theme with you - you assume too much without knowing the whole story or even caring enough to ASK. On the contrary, I defended you to a few people including Eric as being honest, but lacking discretion in how you email people prematurely without knowing what the facts are. Feel free to ask Eric and someone else you probably know who I'm referring to what I said about you. Anyway, you have done this twice to me. It shows you are simply prone to jumping the gun and act without thinking without any cause or concern for what the other person's side of the story is, which can put the whole operation in jeopardy because you have to think about it - you never know when you will anger the wrong person who many withdraw all funding, equipment, etc... the way you email without consulting ALL the members of the board including Eric shows that you are willing to jeopardize EVERYTHING because you misunderstood something without ever taking the time to find out what the other side of the story is. And, you email two people who are not even on the board of directors, which is professionally inappropriate and Eric does not approve of them being included in communications from any representatives from EPD Labs.

The second time you did this to me was not in a polite manner at all as you and Ray are trying to convince everyone of. You accused me of pulling a "stunt", accused me of deliberately sabotaging your efforts of raising funds for EPD Labs when you never had permission to do so to begin with, and in a very condescending manner, tell me to keep my suggestions to myself when I never suggested anything to you at all. You were completely OUT OF LINE by sending me that email for starters and you are out of line to speak for EPD Labs in that manner when you never consulted two other important board members - Eric being one of them to have their approval to send an official email representing the organization and Eric Dollard.

I don't need to talk to Eric about what your intentions are. It has been clear to me from day one when you asked me at the conference at the resort how to get in touch with Eric. I read you as being a very sincere person who wanted to do anything to help Eric out and the only thing I have witnessed thus far (besides the bs email you sent me both times) is that you are very selfless in helping Eric, but completely misguided as to the proper protocols and etiquette when dealing with organizations or other professional matters, etc...

Eric has also believed this up until the email you sent me, which reflects bad on the organization and Eric - because despite all the parrot talking fools around here that don't even know what the facts are and go off blabbering in their autopilot mode insulting me, everything that Ray and John P are accusing me of - Eric knows to be 100% concocted BS and if you believe I'm here "brainwashing" Eric, then you are either completely gullable and naive, or their NEFARIOUS MO is rubbing off on you. When you get a chance to talk to Eric, you can find out everything you want to all your heart's desire - THEN, come here and post the truth about when Eric and I have been doing while he has been here - if you have the guts to put it out there, which will show that Ray and John P and nothing but absolute liars and trouble makers. As I said in my other post, part of my response is a litmus test to see if you will indeed side with the truth once you know what the truth actually is - and you cannot know that unless you ask the other side.

You say, "the other was to secure donations for EPD Labs." Well, first of all, I gave you a guest pass so you could be there as a friend for Eric and THAT WAS IT! The ONLY agreement for Eric's participation in the conference, which was between him and I was our personal business to generate money for Eric personally and you know this is the truth. EPD Labs never asked me (and never even asked Eric!!!) for permission - there was absolutely no conversation to me or any other conference organizer about EPD Labs wanting to raise donations. As I told you in the email, if EPD Labs wanted a presence at the conference, you would have been given a free table in the vendor room.

I don't recall you saying donations were for EPD Labs or not. Someone was talking to me and I only heard the tail end of it where you said something about being setup to take credit cards. That reminded me that I was supposed to ask Peter to mention giving Eric donations when he introduced Eric so I said something like, "Or, if you happen to have cash, you can just give it directly to Eric."

Another thing that you know to be true David is that I made it explicitly clear that any money coming out of Eric's conference involvement was to go to the dollarddonations account, period. If I heard you mention EPD Labs, I would have kindly asked you afterward to fork over the money to Eric and Eric can decide how much of it he wants to give to EPD Labs. Not one single time did you approach me with the concern about EPD Labs needing money, etc...

You can't just walk into someone's conference and solicit the paid attendees for an organization, which was never discussed. The ONLY agreement with Eric's participation was to generate money for him and him only. He has a right to do his own business, which is separate from his involvement with EPD Labs and EPD Labs cannot take it upon themselves to decide for Eric what work belongs to them and what belongs to him. By even attempting to use the audience to raise money for EPD Labs is literally screwing with Eric's agreement that he and I have. Your intention at the conference was out of line, you never asked for permission, you never asked me or Eric about what our agreement was - you took it upon yourself or someone put it in your head that you need to come to the conference to get EPD Labs money - all that was made up by you guys without any conversation to Eric or I about any of it!

Again, if you wanted representation for EPD Labs, I would have gladly give you a free table to do what you want with it but don't get in the way of an agreement between Eric and I that is none of your business. Read that again - and so should Ray and everyone else... Eric has a right to do his own business outside of EPD Labs and that business is NOT ANYONE'S BUSINESS except for Eric's and anyone he is doing business with. The ONLY thing that was told to me about EPD Labs was that some t-shirts were supposed to show up, which I never saw and which Eric never wore for his presentation.

Since I told Eric that any money from the conference will go to the dollarddonations account and NOT EPD Labs - that was my promise to him because he ALREADY had the concern about Ray, etc... BEFORE he ever came to Spokane, then I will make damn sure that money from the conference will go there! I honor my word as myself and when I give someone my word, I will do everything possible to fulfill that word. I don't make promises - I just do what I say I will do come hell or high water. To the best of my ability, this is how I live my life - there can be no other way.

To address what you're saying - yes, most people probably are aware of EPD Labs (which Eric never wanted anyone to even know that name by the way) and it needs money, but that is irrelevant to this situation. EPD Labs was NEVER a part of Eric's participation at the conference and you all took it upon yourselves to determine that it was WITHOUT ever talking to me about it. I understand EPD Labs needs money too. I've been the president of a non-profit business development group, have many friends who are grant writers, etc... I know the business and all the headaches that go along with it. But you all need to create a sustainable business model to generate your own funds instead of having to always piggyback on other people's organizations, etc...

I don't mind helping EPD Labs (as of now under different circumstances of course), but it has to be done in an appropriate way. Not go to someone's conference, do something that was never discussed or given permission for, make it up in your own mind that I was trying to deliberately sabotage something and then get pissed off and write me a smart ass condescending letter titled "Stunt at conference"

[Aaron]

@David Webster 2

And in that letter, you pontificate about the necessity to respect the chain of command of an organization that I do not belong to, etc..., which what you are *****ing at me about - you yourself have done at my organization, disrespecting any and all organizational hierarchy, bypassing it all and trying to solicit donations from the paid attendees. Do you know how incredibly hypocritical and stupid all that appears to as when I read that? And you, Ray, etc... think I'm out of line for jumping all over you for sending me that letter? Seriously David, if you can't see the light here buddy, you are seriously operating in a very dark fog.

" It seemed to me that it was a purposeful deflection (this being only my suspicion) of funds away from EPD Labs and into Eric's pocket." That is what you said in your post. SEEMED to you. I personally thought we were on pretty good rapport with each other. We've emailed and talked on the phone but not one single time at the end of the conference or afterward did you ever approach me with your concerns - and instead, you let it stir inside of you for a few days and then you send me a very condescending letter and hypocritical on top of it and look where it ended up.

Now a few people who have no official business with EPD Labs and who Eric wants absolutely nothing to do with are here calling me a liar and everything else under the sun because you were irresistibly compelled to "tell me how it is" - when you were blind to the whole thing.

"it seemed to me like to appropriate place to funnel the money would be into the bank account of the nonprofit organization" - that is what you said - again, it SEEMED to you. You keep taking it upon yourself to decide how things were with no conversation about it with anyone who needs to know. For the conference, there are 2 people of high significance when it comes to Eric's involvement with the conference and that Eric and I - that's it! 2 people that you have EASY access to communicate anything you want.

When I asked people to give cash directly to Eric, I was fulfilling my promise that money from the conference would not go to EPD Labs and that this was Eric's personal deal. If you need to get money from Eric, that is your business with him - I don't need to be involved in that.

And on top of this, I made it abundantly clear to you on several occassions that any money made for Eric that I am involved in is to go to Eric and not EPD Labs.

Why does that theme keep coming up? Because Eric's feelings about Ray, etc... existed PRIOR to him ever coming here so with Ray and John P popping off at the mouth how I am manipulating Eric is pure unadulterated garbage. Ray is the instigator here and John P has been promised something that is due to him in the future and this is why he is backing this - from what I can gather.

Claiming that I'm somehow trying to put Eric against them is nothing but pure low life trash coming from people who know damn well that the way Eric feels about them has absolutely NOTHING to do with me. My only involvement with Eric's pre-existing feelings about them is to agree with him, first Eric's and from other people's testimonials and now I can say without a shadow of a doubt based on EMPIRICLE evidence is that Eric has been 100% CORRECT and all his claims are 100% JUSTIFIED!

It is just sad that YOU don't see what is really going on. You think you know all the details but you actually don't and you haven't gotten the full story from EVERYONE who is significant in this matter but one of them will come forward soon.

Let's address this: you say - "After I made the announcement, Aaron chimed in and said "Or you could just give cash to Eric." This didn't quite sit well with me because I had been informed by an anonymous person that Aaron didn't trust what was going on in EPD Labs." Didn't sit with you well? First the anonymous person I know who that is. Second of all, I DIRECTLY told you personally that I didn't trust what was going on in EPD Labs. Why would you put this off on someone else who is deceived in their anonymity when I directly told you the same thing. Don't obscure the simple truth David - I told you personally and this is the entire reason you agreed to receive the funds from me directly through the donation account and NOT directly to EPD Labs. You act as if it was some mystery! I TOLD YOU DIRECTLY.

Once money is in the donations account, it can at least be spent at your discretion and not at the discretion of other people. You seem to suddenly have a bad memory. You even told me personally on the phone - "we do vote on what money gets spent on so there is a sort of checks and balances". Geee - why in the world would you be telling me that on the phone - just for fun or because the trust issue between Eric and Ray, Wittekind had ALREADY existed or are you going to continue the charade that suddenly I'm here trying to to put Eric against those guys when you know damn well that that distrust was ALREADY AN ISSUE that had absolutely nothing to do with me or my involvement with Eric? Ray and John P are LIARS and they are LYING to everyone here about who I am or what I'm doing.

" Let it be known that all purchases are agreed upon by the EPD Labs Board of Directors on which Eric has a seat. No money spending decisions are made without his knowledge and agreement." This is what you claim and this is supposed to be the obvious case. But LET IT BE KNOWN that these guys are operating on their own accord on other organizational matters WITHOUT the knowledge or consent of Eric Dollard. Obviously certain positions have certain tasks that each person is supposed to handle in a competent manner, but that is not what I'm talking about. I have already given a few examples.

"I should have addressed the problem there in person but didn't. That was my fault and a bad decision. Instead I wrote and email to Aaron in which I had an annoyed tone. " - CORRECT

" Aaron came back at me with an extremely upset email accusing me of soliciting paid attendees at the conference for donations and that I was out of line for doing so. He asked me to respect the decisions of organizations that I didn't belong to. I thought that this was fair since nowhere was it explicitly stated that taking donations for EPD Labs would be permitted. I just thought it was implied because of one of our private message conversations where I was told by Aaron that we would be able to have our own table to take donations." - To clarify, it was your condescending letter as I mentioned before that you were telling me to respect the decisions of EPD Labs, etc... and to respect the chain of command, leadership, etc... when in fact it was you who violated that entire string of logic at my conference. CORRECT?

So when I snapped at you for your letter and Ray pops off calling me a liar, etc... you can see he is completely out of line and is completely delusional about the entire affair that he can't see straight. He needs to back off and keep his mouth to himself in matters that don't concern him. All he did was feed the fire that you started. How he can think he can do that and actually be helpful is beyond words. It cannot be stated too many times, Eric wants Ray to immediately disengage in 100% of every activity dealing with EPD Labs and Eric's work and all the aetheric revolution crap has to stop too. That is not what Eric is about and he does not approve of any of it.

Eric has been put in a position where he feels that he has no recourse against anyone doing things in his name without his approval. I really think you need to take that to heart David and realize that what Eric wants is important and should be respected and if Eric doesn't want certain people to be involved in the organization and he is very adamant about it that as an organization, that is named after him after all, should be respectful of that. Doing anything contrary to that is an obvious sign that certain people have their own agenda and it is in direct opposition to what Eric wants.

[Aaron]

@David Webster 3

Now David, this statement of yours is simply not true: " I just thought it was implied because of one of our private message conversations where I was told by Aaron that we would be able to have our own table to take donations." I'll remind you of the actual course of events. I brought the table thing up with you by email AFTER you sent me that email with insults and accusations. That was NOT before the conference and I can send you a copy of the email thread if you wish to see it. I told you that if you wanted to represent EPD Labs, all you had to do was express that to me, I would have been more than happy to give you a free table in the vendor room. This conversation about the table was AFTER the conference - not before, so it could not have been implied that it was ok to solicit donations to the audience...again, the talk of the table was in response to your email to me AFTER the conference.

"Again, I take responsibility for my shortcomings in how I handled the situation between Aaron and myself, but I operate with pure intentions and those are to see Eric back in a fully functional laboratory." I can appreciate this and this would be consistent with who I thought you were.

"Eric called me the following day after I sent the email and was irate. I tried to explain to him the situation of the lab and the need for EPD Labs to have operating capital. I believe that Eric felt betrayed that I would have rather seen the money go into EPD Labs than into his pocket. I understand where he is coming from but also have to look at the reality of keeping the lab in good operating order. Nothing gets done if the power gets shut off..." -

Here is the first time you'll see the sequence of events... remember me calling you after the conference when you guys were getting Eric settled in the hotel room? Is that consistent AT ALL with someone who you are accusing of sabotaging your efforts? From my perspective, I thought everything was fine - was a great success in every way, was able to help Eric out in a way that he wasn't accustomed to and suddenly a couple nights later, I get that email from you... all I could think was "are you fricking kidding me???? Really???"

So the next morning, I immediately sent a text to my friend where he was staying to ask Eric to not spend the money he got from donations until he sees the email from you - seemed money was allocated to something I did not know about and didn't ask because it isn't my business. Because from your email, it was the very first time it was made known to me that you might have had some other agreement with Eric about the money, which I did not know about and didn't want to get in the way of anything. I know Eric needed it to buy tires for his car, etc.. but he needed to talk to you because it seemed you hadn't even talked to Eric about the money. That surprised me. From my perspective, not only are you not discussing anything with me, you're also not discussing it with Eric. So when I finally talked to Eric later, he said he had a certain type of conversation with you and did not approve of you sending that email to me on behalf of EPD Labs, which represents Eric Dollard, who at the time happens to be a guest at my home and my friend's home. Are you crazy???

Do you even realize how many thousands of pounds of test equipment, parts, rare transformers, etc... worth MANY thousands of dollars that I have put into Eric's hands for free? Do you realize your unnecessary and out of line email has the potential to jeopardize a lot of potential funding, equipment, parts, support and more? All because you had a misunderstanding of my intentions, blew it out of proportion, etc... Are you cognizant of the fact you reaction to imaginary scenarios is a complete liability to Eric and his organization?

A fact to all - John P is not to be trusted. I thought he was a hell of a guy when I met him and without him even knowing the facts, here he is with all this bs and slander against me. For a fact, he will blab privy information to others without reservation. You cannot trust him to honor any private communication. Just a warning to everyone.

David Webster - you are in that same category with John P on that issue apparently. When you have a conversation with someone, you should respect other people's privacy about what is being said. The only difference here is that instead of you causing trouble by lying about me like John P and Ray Savant are doing here, you are being level headed about it, but you need to learn to use discretion. I share certain things with you because I am led to believe that I can trust you but now I see that I was mistaken. I think that you may be trustworthy, but does it actually need to be asked of you to keep a conversation private each and every time someone talks to you?

Anyway David, you have been taken for a ride and I think everyone will see this soon. You have been used and manipulated and you can deny it all you want. Eric's trust in you will vanish if you continue to assist those that Eric doesn't want to have anything to do with and if decisions are made that run contrary to his wishes, he will vanish in to the bushes and EPD Labs will fall flat on its face. When the truth comes out, nobody will ever trust Ray or Wittekind and nobody will ever want to give them 1 single penny in donations. When the truth comes out, which it is coming, blabbering idiots insulting me here will be eating crow.

[jpolakow]

As long as you continue to accuse me of things and insult me Aaron, I will continue to reply to the same degree you attack me. Please be a little more specific in addressing specific events though, generalizations of calling me a liar aren't very specific.

because despite all the parrot talking fools around here that don't even know what the facts are and go off blabbering in their autopilot mode insulting me, everything that Ray and John P are accusing me of - Eric knows to be 100% concocted BS and if you believe I'm here "brainwashing" Eric, then you are either completely gullable and naive, or their NEFARIOUS MO is rubbing off on you. When you get a chance to talk to Eric, you can find out everything you want to all your heart's desire - THEN, come here and post the truth about when Eric and I have been doing while he has been here - if you have the guts to put it out there, which will show that Ray and John P and nothing but absolute liars and trouble makers. As I said in my other post, part of my response is a litmus test to see if you will indeed side with the truth once you know what the truth actually is - and you cannot know that unless you ask the other side.

To me at least, the minute you made that veiled threat post directed at EPD Labs, I knew there was a situation that needed to be addressed. Do you call all people that respond to your accusations and insults liars and troublemakers? Particularly when they are relaying facts? The portion of my post where I stated my opinion that you were polarizing Eric against EPD Labs I very clearly stated it was SPECULATION, and did not claim it as fact:

It is my opinion Aaron is trying to polarize Eric against EPD Labs in order to be able to exclusively publish material from Eric, and to receive money generated from Eric. That is speculation, but it is my opinion.

That would preclude you from being able to call me a liar. The rest of my post is nothing but facts. If you insist on continue to call me a liar you must state what it is I'm lying about, otherwise it just doesn't make any sense.

You continue to make ambiguous complaints against me, questioning my integrity. If you're going to call me a liar, tell me WTF I am lying about otherwise it just doesn't hold water! I'm an honest person and Eric wouldn't have stuck around me this long if I wasn't!

I started addressing your first post in a rather neutral tone, which is self evident, but as you insulted me more, I responded to your insults. If you stop insulting me, I will stop responding to them.

[jpolakow]

Ray is the instigator here and John P has been promised something that is due to him in the future and this is why he is backing this - from what I can gather.

I have no idea what you are talking about here, but I would like to know!

Ray and John P are LIARS and they are LYING to everyone here about who I am or what I'm doing.

What am I lying about that you keep referencing? Is that what you do when you can't refute facts? Call someone a liar to mitigate their argument? Its a pretty serious charge to call someone a liar in my book. So if your going to continue to do it you better back it up with some facts.

Because everyone here is reading it and reading your responses. And I would rather not stay on a forum where the moderator publicly accuses someone on a forum of being a liar and then refuses to state what it is they are lying about. There are a lot of key people here who would rather take their knowledge somewhere else if you're going to continue to throw insults.

[Aaron]

@John Polakowski

First, I see you are already editing your post. I have everyone's original posts recorded so don't try to pull anything.

David writes a short respectful email? David just admitted his annoyed tone. The SUBJECT of the email was "Stunt at conference" - how you miss the fact that it was a very condescending letter with insults and accusations complete escapes me. Are you really trying to play some objective observer here or are you skewing the facts? The facts are absolutely being skewed by you. Whether it is intentional or you actually have convinced yourself that it was a respectful or polite email is another issue. John, it was a very disrespectful email and Webster admits it. Get over it.

Like Webster, you jump the gun without knowing the facts. "helping yourselves to Eric" is not a reference to you or Webster. Do you not realize that the first people to defend themselves against something when nobody's name is actually stated is usually seen as the ones who are actually guilty of doing that? Personally, I don't believe you are like that and I don't believe Eric thinks that either. You have been brought up in one particular issue, which brings into question something about your intent, but it is possible, you were mentioned in something without you even knowing it. I mentioned there was something promised to you - I concede that it is possible that you are unaware of what someone's plans are for you.

You're not the nefarious element I'm referring to - again, to defend yourself makes you look guilty. At the request of various significant individuals who this all concerns, I am finding out who will react to that statement the fastest and the loudest and it has already been answered. It isn't you or Webster so back down.

I have no doubts about your intentions John except for one situation in which you were mentioned but it is appearing that you yourself did not even know what was being discussed about you. And no, I will not tell you what that is - you will find out from the horses mouth, Coyote's mouth or whatever the case WILL be. But I can assure you, you will find out.

Point #2, first of all, it is none of your business and second of all, you don't even know what the arrangement is. A link that I created for Eric will earn him 70% of every sale of his presentation, which Eric wants everyone to use to promote his talk if they want to support him. After merchant service fees, etc... I'm not left with very much and I still have to do 100% of all customer service indefinitely and Eric gives no more effort for that presentation and continues to receive that 70% from that link. For the first time ever, Eric is being put in a position to start earning residual income from his work and everyone else wants to convince Eric that it all needs to be for free so that everyone is constantly begging for donations. That is a stupid model to operate from that is not sustainable and for the fact that the lab has no money and needed the conference donations to pay the rent proves my point. You all need to wake the hell up and respect the fact that Eric's time has value to it and he deserves to be compensated for it.

Furthermore, Energetic Forum is not a publisher of any of this material. Energetic Forum is simply an affiliate for the published works as it has business expenses like any other forum. And for your information, a very small percentage of the sales come from the forum because it is like preaching to the choir. Most sales come from newsletter subscribers who do not participate in in this or any other forum. What I have done is introduced many mainstream people to this kind of information who otherwise would have never heard about it. You, like many others who try to critique me think they know my business better than I do. So honestly, you do not know any of the facts and should keep your analysis to yourself.

You are misrepresenting something here out of ignorance - hopefully not out of stupidity or to be a troublemaker. You obviously have no business experience and obviously have no business being in business. You don't know the first thing about how a non-profit should be ran, nor should you have any input into a non-profit organization because your mentality about the whole thing is dysfunctional.

You obviously have no respect for Eric's work and do not think that someone should invest their time and money into producing something that will pay Eric over and over. You need a reality check John. Eric spent many hours for his presentation and his book. He deserves to be paid for that. To invest time and money from my side into the project to make it something that is sustainable for both of us, I need to be compensated for my time as well. Eric gives the content, I publish it and market it and it generates a sale. That means he is able to keep getting paid over and over for creating the work one time and I'm the one who has to keep working for a smaller amount. Anyone that thinks Eric doesn't deserve a fair deal like this is a scumbag - there is no other word for it.

You are completely delusional about how a non-profit should be run. It is because of that kind of delusion that the non-profit has no money and can hardly pay its bills. It is obvious that everyone involved shares the same delusion. Speaking like this about how EPD Labs operates to the whole world is showing the entire world that the organization is run by rank amateurs who haven't the slightest clue as to how to run a non-profit. You are scaring away serious people with serious money with your statements - you are NOT helping matters, you are making them worse for EPD Labs.

You need to have something sink into your mind John because you need to wake up. Wittekind and Ray have their own businesses or jobs that pay their bills. EPD Labs is NOT responsible for their livelihood so they do NOT rely on it for income. If it was, I can guarantee you that they would be taking money to pay their personal bills. Webster has his own job and I'm not sure what you do, but not being on the board of directors, you are taking it upon yourself to be a volunteer. That is your choice.

I walked away from my health food store 7 years ago in order to do what I do full time. To prevent myself from going on food stamps and begging for donations to pay my bills, I choose to be on online publisher and distributor of technologies that I'm excited about in order to earn my income. So your comparison between my publishing business and how the non-profit is operated is seen with tunnel vision without regard or concern for what the actual facts or situation is and you should keep your uninformed opinions about how a business or non-profit should be run to yourself - because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

It wasn't EPD Labs that brought Eric's name back to light. He did that by you and Webster posting his stuff in this forum over the last few years. EPD Labs is simply piggy backing like a parasite on the traffic that developed over that time because they're clueless as to how to generate a network of their own. If it wasn't for this vehicle here that I helped to provide, they would have almost nothing.

[Aaron]

@John Polakowski 2

I have expenses that are paid out of pocket, which provided the vehicle, which generated donations for Eric of the last few years. I've contributed in many ways that you want people to believe doesn't exist. I promoted the Indegogo campaign and was responsible for about 30% of all money raised, which was passed off as "going viral" when even Webster agrees that it was from my promotions. I helped put a sizable amount of cash into Eric's hands at the end of the conference and a quarter of that was from me (no strings attached and that did NOT come out of presentation sales) and Webster took half of it away from Eric and Eric NEEDED it for cart parts, etc... I also put thousands of pounds of test equipment worth MANY THOUSANDS of dollars of rare transformers, capacitors, tubes, etc... into Eric's hands, which he WAS planning on bringing to the lab ALL FOR FREE...and I could have made many thousands of dollars in my own pocket had I sold all of that for my friend - had I been a money grubbing SOB that you and these other low lifes are accusing me of. All that stuff is sitting right in my friend's warehouse. Do you think I want to let all of that extremely valuable equipment get down to the lab to be managed by the likes of you and Ray, etc... who are sitting here lying about me, accusing me of things and misrepresenting who I am or what I do? HELL NO! You people don't have any idea what kind of problems your mouths cause!

You are obviously completely clueless to what I have brought to the table, what I am bringing to the table and what I want to bring to the table, but seeing that you all pop off at the mouth with your poverty-consciousness self-aggrandizing bs of what a bunch of heros you are, I'm inclined to bring all of that assistance to an end until Eric is in a comfortable situation where he won't get screwed anymore - and yes, he is getting screwed and I didn't say it was by you or Webster.

Out of the people profiting - #1 as you mention was made possible because of Energetic Forum. Why do you think Eric ever came to a conference called the "Bedini-Lindemann" conference!!???? You don't know as much as you think you do about what is going on.

#2 - that is true, but this constant "for free" mentality is why Eric has to live off of donations. Nobody respects him enough to make sure that he is compensated for his time in putting together all of that work. Everyone has been using Eric to his detriment and now I'm in a position to make sure he has something coming to him on a regular basis. What a concept!!??

#3 - As I said, Energetic Forum is preaching to the choir when most digital products are announced here. It makes just enough to pay its server costs and a few other expenses. Put it this way, I don't rely on any income from Energetic Forum. It was setup as a support forum for self help stuff and later the energy stuff came. That is all it was ever intended to be.

"It is completely irresponsible of him to take an email disagreement, to the level of publicly slandering EPD Labs, highly exaggerating some ambigous "threat to Eric", and suggesting this is going to somehow screw Eric."

If you recall, I answered David in private and Ray accused me of being a liar. My response here was to smokeout those who are being irresponsible with the organization and instead of 1 or 2, I get 3 responses. That is what Eric DOES NOT WANT coming from anyone in his organization and Ray has proven to be exactly what Eric doesn't want.

If anyone had any common sense, the appropriate response to my post in this forum that would have put Eric Dollard and his organization ahead of their own egotistical BS would have been, "We offer no public comment to the statement made by Mr. Murakami." IF THERE IS EVEN TO BE ANY COMMENT AT ALL! End of story. AND, it should have been approved by Eric and the other member of the board who is never mentioned and nobody should mention his name without his permission.

To do anything other than what I just described in the previous paragraph is PROOF that none of you have any business running any kind of organization. And what is funny, but not funny is that each person thought each statement was directed personally at them. Funny how each person had a reaction to the "nefarious elements" as if it was actually talking about them. Why be so defensive if you're innocent?

Think about it - do you think anyone that is in the position to help with serious funding, equipment, etc... will want to actually help out seeing how EPD Labs is being managed? You will scare them all away.

Finally, I directly mention anything about the email disagreement - you all did. I gave my side of the story in the response to Webster's post.

My post about the Trials and Tribulations of having the Coyote in my Home was mostly supposed to be comical for anyone who isn't so uptight that it went over their heads. But the ending was dead serious. I find myself in the middle of it (being accused of being a liar and other accusations and slanders by Ray in response to my response to Webster's out of line email that he sent to me - Ray obviously jumped the gun and hasn't comprehended what the situation even is). But it goes deeper than that. What I learned from Eric and other parties of interest is downright disgusting.

And John, you are completely out of line giving ANY opinion of me without knowing the facts. I'm really looking forward to you talking to Eric personally about his experience up here and what he thinks about all of your responses to me. See, the only person that knows what dealings with Eric is - is Eric! Not you, not Webster, not Ray or Wittekind - because it is none of your damn business.

If you are to know, it is because Eric or myself will tell you what it is, but for now, watch your mouth because you are rapidly burning the bridge with Eric as we speak. If you have any common sense whatsoever, you will reverse your public opinion about me until you speak to Eric personally or you will also be publicly denounced and nobody will ever trust you again.

As I said, more will be revealed and many of you owe me an apology. At this point, I could care less, but at least everyone will know the truth and will know that these accusations by Ray are 100% fabricated and John P is playing right into his hands like a leaf blowing whichever way the wind blows.

Stay tuned...

[Aaron]

@JP

Its a pretty serious charge to call someone a liar in my book. So if your going to continue to do it you better back it up with some facts.

You can't be that stupid John. Your first communication in response to anything I posted was to give your grand ol opinion that I am manipulating Eric and putting him against you guys. And you have the audacity to have a problem with me calling someone a liar? Why don't you back up your ill informed "opinion" with facts. You have a double standard and are being a hypocrite.

[Aaron]

@jp2

I have no idea what you are talking about here, but I would like to know!



What am I lying about that you keep referencing?

You will know soon enough if you really don't know what I'm talking about.

You are lying about me putting Eric against you guys. You say it is your opinion, but that is a gutless disclaimer. You insulted me with your slanderous accusation. You don't know what the hell actually transpired here while Eric was up here, do you? You have no fricking idea, but you have the audacity to tell everyone your opinion of what I supposedly have done to Eric??? You need to wake the hell up and realize what you are accusing me of.

[Aaron]

JP

Just to leave it for now John, when I drove you to the conference, I was really thinking - wow, you're really a nice guy, very respectful and positive. Last day of the conference, you were standing next to me as I was talking to someone and I wanted to spend some time chatting with you. Turned around and you were gone. I had nothing but a positive experience with you in the short time that there was and it is completely disappointing to see you easily swayed by Ray's reaction and you are refusing to see Webster's admittance that his letter was NOT respectful as you and Ray claim, but was very condescending - Webster says it had an annoyed tone and the title was Stunt at conference - yeah real polite and respectful John. And then to give your opinion that I'm manipulating Eric. Shameful and you don't even know what the hell actually happened. If you had any decency about you, you would reserve all judgment until you talk to Eric. So, you can take that for what it is. I speak the truth and you will see that it is you that has been manipulated to go against me. You don't need to comment on it, it is coming.