COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie

[MileHigh]

Rosemary:

Aaron's proposed methodology for measuring the output power by measuring the voltage across the coil-resistor and using v-squared/R was wrong. I recall you making the same types of statements about measuring the power across a coil-resistor a few weeks ago. You clearly demonstrated that you had no understanding of how the current and voltage were related and kept on insisting that it was (to paraphrase) "just like a resistor." There is nothing wrong with commenting on things like that that correct erroneous assumptions.

Precisely who is your "expert advisement?" It is a term that you often use. Do you mean Aaron and Peter or someone else? I am not looking for a name or names, but what are you really talking about?

You should not be proud of your statements wanting to censor me. Forget about the bruised egos, I think that the root motivation behind your statement is fear. Fear on your and Aaron's part to open up and sometimes say, "Hey I didn't know that, thanks for clarifying that, I would like to understand more." That would put a fissure (can't use the other word) in your armor and you can't deal with that idea. There have been many many "pregnant pauses" during this thread where there are way-off assumptions or processes that are suggested by "your team" and then somebody makes a point that corrects the assumption. The response is stony silence, where fear is getting the better of you. The recent craziness over the avalanche breakdown failure mode for a MOSFET comes to mind. I have a feeling that we are not going to hear about that one anymore. Nobody on "your team" has the guts to say, "Hey, we were wrong and didn't know that, thanks for helping." In my opinion, it never happens because you are paralyzed by fear. It is the same thing when you cherry pick a mistake by somebody on the "opposing team" and say (to paraphrase), "You are an idiot and obviously don't know anything so take a hike." It is the worst form of propagandizing that even Joseph Goebbels would be proud of.

So in my opinion right now, Aaron and Peter should be willing to be open and up front with their test methodology because I don't have enough confidence in either of them to get it right all by themselves. I have to assume that there are others that would share my opinion. That is the reality from my perspective, sorry if that offends anyone.

If the Tektroniks DSO is being loaned out because it is not being rented at this time, it could easily be snatched back after just one day if Tektronics finds a paying customer. That means that Aaron and Peter could be limited to just one or two days of use with it. That makes it that much more important to get it right the first time.

MileHigh

[Hoppy]

I think it highly unlikely that Peter would risk his reputation and take the lead with Aaron as lab assistant to produce a test method, procedure and set of results for this particular circuit, to a standard that would stand up to detailed analysis by academics / other interested parties.

Hoppy

[quantumuppercut]

... so it now needs to be proved that the energy radiating from the resistor in the form of heat is many times greater than the energy being taken by the circuit.

Hoppy

Did you mean:"... so it now needs to be proved that the energy radiating from the inductive resistor in the form of heat is many times greater than the energy being taken by the shunt(battery)."?

[Hoppy]

Did you mean:"... so it now needs to be proved that the energy radiating from the inductive resistor in the form of heat is many times greater than the energy being taken by the shunt(battery)."?

Taken by the circuit from the battery.

Hoppy

[witsend]

Following quotes from MileHigh

Aaron's proposed methodology for measuring the output power by measuring the voltage across the coil-resistor and using v-squared/R was wrong.
MileHigh - as I say - you insist on parading an unqualified statement as proof of ignorance.

I recall you making the same types of statements about measuring the power across a coil-resostor a few weeks ago. You clearly demonstrated that you had no understanding of how the current and voltage were related and kept on insisting that it was (to paraphrase) "just like a resistor." There is nothing wrong with commenting on things like that that correct erroneous assumptions.
Kindly give actual reference here. To the best of my knowledge I'm reasonably au fait with elementary power analysis and we are only dealing with elementary power analysis. And I have no recollection of saying "just like a resistor" or any thing approximating this statement. This is another example of a paraded ignorance - but this time not even based on fact.

Precisely who is your "expert advisement?" It is a term that you often use. Do you mean Aaron and Peter or someone else? I am not looking for a name or names, but what are you really talking about?
I am under no obligation to disclose this. But certainly I include Peter and Aaron under that general description of expertise.

You should not be proud or your statements wanting to censor me.
Not proud MileHigh. Embarrassed - that I have to say it all. And I am not censoring you. I am telling you to withhold your opinion until it is appropriate. You're like the jury who reach a decision before the trial.

Forget about the bruised egos,
If I cared about my ego I would hardly still be addressing this thread - or for that matter - your post.

I think that the root motivation behind your statement is fear.
Indeed. I'm scared that I may be right and I'm scared that I may be wrong. Either way. I am indeed scared. The implications of the former are terrifying. By contrast the implications of the latter are almost comforting.

Fear on your and Aaron's part to open up and sometimes say, "Hey I didn't know that, thanks for clarifying that, I would like to understand more."
What nonsense. I take very real pleasure in pointing out what little I know and how much there is to learn.

That would put a fissure (can't use the other word) in your armor and you can't deal with that idea.
What armour? I have none. The minute one shows one's identity and stands up to a claim - then one is entirely vulnerable. I wish I had some armour. I have NONE.

There have been many many "pregnant pauses" during this thread where there are way-off assumptions or processes that are suggested by "your team"
I absolutely will not accept this statement without direct reference - chapter and verse - to the examples you are suggesting are evident. I know of none such. I have even admitted fault when there was none. No embarrassment in admitting what one does not know. But I've also recommended that there be some acknowledgement of what little I do know.


The recent craziness over the avalanche breakdown failure mode for a MOSFET comes to mind.
Again - I have no idea what you are talking about. There have been many references to MOSFETs and I think I can honestly say that I've never understood any of the points made here. Certainly I was never embarrassed - and certainly I did not care about what anyone thought would or would not work. My only concern as expressed is that I do not care what causes the resonance - just as long as there is resonance. Nor do I. I have no idea how classicists see this. I only know how I see this. And I've yet to read where anyone else see the moment as I do. So what could I care? I simply don't.

I have a feeling that we are not going to hear about that one anymore.
MileHigh - discuss this to your heart's content. I do not mind. And I do not think that anything was proposed here that caused anyone that I know of, any kind of embarrassment.

Nobody on "your team" has the guts to say, "Hey, we were wrong and didn't know that, thanks for helping."
If we've overlooked something here - give me an example - I will see to it that this oversight is amended.

In my opinion, it never happens because you are paralyzed by fear.
Yes I'm scared. Let me explain something of that fear. I am scared for my personal safety. I am even more scared of my family's safety. I am scared of the hatred that my claim seems to evoke. I am scared when OU.Com refuse me the right to challenge TK's unrestrained attack on my name, my abilities and my knowledge. I am scared when such as you can publicly challenge me to account for myself in these petty exchanges that add nothing to my self-respect. I am scared when I find that my private emails are being read and publicly referenced. Indeed I am scared. What I am not scared of is the truth. I am only scared of the consequences of that truth.

It is the same thing when you cherry pick a mistake by somebody on the "opposing team" and say (to paraphrase), "You are an idiot and obviously don't know anything so take a hike." It is the worst form of propagandizing that even Joseph Goebbels would be proud of.
I suggest you look in a mirror. I have only defended myself and, to the best of my knowledge I have never said nor implied that anyone is an idiot. Ever.

So in my opinion right now, Aaron and Peter should be willing to be open and up front with their test methodology because I don't have enough confidence in either of them to get it right all by themselves.
I assure you that I have no interest whatsoever in your opinion. Not on the test protocol and not on the outcome of the test. I personally do not give a tuppeny damn what you think. But I am sure you will, nonetheless give us ample evidence of your opinion. It seems to be an untrammled compulsion of yours.

I have to assume that there are others that would share my opinion. That is the reality from my perspective, sorry if that offends anyone.
Are you some sort of spokesperson here? In which case is this why you give yourself this extraordinary license to critise our efforts? Try equalling them. That will be a test of caliber.

If the Tektroniks DSO is being loaned out because it is not being rented at this time, it could easily be snatched back after just one day if Tektronics finds a paying customer. That means that Aaron and Peter could be limited to just one or two days of use with it. That makes it that much more important to get it right the first time.
I am not sure what code of ethics you live by. But I assure you that reputable companies are not inclined to breach undertakings even when they are gratuitous.

To me, with respect, it seems that you cannot open your mouth or exercise your efforts on that key board, without parading another quality of pettiness and pride that I personally, find offensive.

[MileHigh]

Rosemary, hard to reply to all of that. Suffice to say that Aaron's incorrect way of measuring the power dissipated in the coil-resistor would show slight over unity, perhaps a COP of 1.1, certainly not a COP of 17. That would be more than enough to claim victory and the conclusion might be that if you could "tune" it better and find just the right layout and components you could achieve a COP of 17, so time to do more replications. The assumption being that somehow one of your original setups had the "magic" configuration that the replicators are missing. Meanwhile the "classicists" would expect to see a COP of somewhere between 0.8 and 0.9.

If the results of the test are under unity, then just about everything that the "classicists" stated was correct. The thread dies, people learned something and can move on to try other things. The "classicists" would say that any circuit that consists of passive components and powered semiconductor components can not achieve over unity by definition.

You have qualified me by my postings just as I have qualified you by your postings. I don't buy your claim that you have no interest in my opinion. The fear that I am referring to is not the same fear that you are discussing and I think that we both know that. I can't wait to see what the results are.

MileHigh

[Mark]

Milehigh

What a great idea! Wait to see the results, I couldn't have said it better myself. Lets just wait to see some results.

If your so sure that the claim is completely false why do you insist on posting or even viewing this thread? Why are you wasting your time? You don't have anything better to do?

Don't waste anymore of your time here, find something constructive to do like some research, or maybe some experiments.

[jas_bir77]

hi best of luck rose

hi rose.
ALL THE BEST
(for standing against the world)
conserve some energy for the celebrations of successful test results also.
jasbir

[witsend]

I don't buy your claim that you have no interest in my opinion. The fear that I am referring to is not the same fear that you are discussing and I think that we both know that. I can't wait to see what the results are.
MileHigh

I am not a liar. I have no interest in your opinion regarding the test - it's possible outcome - or indeed, as time will show, it's actual outcome. This is because I have lost all the residual respect that I held for you. I will not be answering any more of your posts.

[witsend]

Thanks jas and Mark. Just seen your posts. Much appreciated.

[quantumuppercut]

[QUOTE=Mark;63663]

What a great idea! Wait to see the results, I couldn't have said it better myself. Lets just wait to see some results.

QUOTE]


If people don't agree with the method of measuring currents/power/voltage, then it doesn't matter what the test result is. They will still debate. We must establish some agreement lines and the result is the final go/no go.

[Hoppy]

Milehigh

What a great idea! Wait to see the results, I couldn't have said it better myself. Lets just wait to see some results.

If your so sure that the claim is completely false why do you insist on posting or even viewing this thread? Why are you wasting your time? You don't have anything better to do?

Don't waste anymore of your time here, find something constructive to do like some research, or maybe some experiments.

Yes, but unless 'both sides' can agree on a method and procedure for the 'official' experiment, what good are the results. Rosemary has already stated that this has already been set down in her original document, that myself and others maintain is badly flawed. Its no good ignoring the classicists opinions and advice and then expecting to claim the upper ground on the strength of the results. Getting to the stage where the experiment can be conducted with confidence from 'both sides' so that at least the protocol is fit for purpose, will take time and may never happen. Competence to carry out the experiment is another issue.

Hoppy

[Mark]

I dont think both sides will ever totally agree. I think the methods of testing has been hammered to death by now. If your not in agreement as to the methods why not replicate your own and do your own testing and report the results?

[quantumuppercut]

I have an idea.

Why don't all the skeptics get together and write down a list of criterial that would satisfy you. Post the list up, the believers will edit the list and update it. This go back and forth until the list is perfect. Then the testing begins. The list needs to be as simple and specific as possible to get to the main point.

[mikehingle]

4th State of Water

@MH,
Thank you for your consideration of those questions I posted.

The underlying purpose was to get the thought processes of the readers here thinking on original reason Rosemary had this circuit built and how it can lead to COP > 17. ..... Can you think of any examples where passing a magnetic field through a material results in Infra Radiation being produced ???

Harvey !

Yeah, but I don't have the $2000 bucks it takes to run down to Home Depot to buy an oven with a magnetic induction cooking stove-top.

Here's another well advanced & utilized system, that man has recently harnessed, that uses nature's power of rapidly collapsing magnetic fields, for producing a newly discovered "4th State of Water". I hope the parallels described here will give a better understanding of the mechanics of the RA circuit.

Cheers !
Mike Hingle

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

Highlights of the SG Gas Patent, entitled :
"Method For Making A Gas From An Aqueous Fluid, Product Of The Method, And Apparatus Therefor"

[0019] ..... electric current provided to the reaction zone to pulse at a frequency of 15 to 20 KHz decreases the wattage needed to create [produce] gas by approximately a factor of 10. ..... with a pulsing device associated with the reaction zone, the amount drops to 0.00028 Kilowatt-hour or less to generate one (1) liter of gas. [= 0.28 Watts / Liter !!! That's @ 9 times OU (COP = 9) !!!]

[0014] ..... Overall, the method employs the creation of [inducing] a magnetic field within the aqueous fluid and periodically collapsing the magnetic field under conditions which do not provoke electrolysis of the aqueous fluid. .....

[0020] ..... a reaction occurs in the electrolyte solution between the two end plates upon collapse of the magnetic field, which results in a release [production] of a generated gas.

[0021] In a pilot plant apparatus for determining optimal operational conditions, a clear Plexiglas receptacle can be used for the reaction zone, so that one can visibly monitor the reaction with ultraviolet light and observe the generation of gas. This pilot plant preferably provides adjustment means for the cathode and anode so that they can be moved to optimize the reaction for a given aqueous fluid composition and changes in pulsing duration and frequency.

[0022] ..... It has been found that use of minimal electric currents between two electrodes results from the electrodes being spread a sufficient distance apart of at the least of one inch apart and preferably eight to sixteen inches apart, .....

[0023] The important functionalities in the process are imposition of [inducing] a magnetic field on the aqueous fluid and the ability to periodically collapse the magnetic field to generate the desired gas, under conditions short of those that will induce electrolysis. ..... [by the use of] a wire coil outside of [wrapped around] the reaction zone ..... [doubling the mass of the wire wrapped around the reaction zone doubles the strength of the magnetic field applied to the reaction zone, without any cost of increased power consumption, except for a minute amount electrical wire resistance] Basic electronics: What is inductance? - 2004-05-10 01:00:00 CDT | Plant Engineering

[0026] The generated gas is then preferably exposed to a second magnetic field by providing [within] a 2nd reaction zone comprising of the [utilizing] rare earth magnets. ..... Since SG Gas is paramagnetic and water vapor is diamagnetic, the magnetic chamber strengthens the molecular bond of the gas [& separates] and repels the water vapor back into the solution [of the 1st reaction zone].

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other gases developed by Rhodes and Brown are "dirty cocktails" with mixtures of gases including H2 or O2 gases
that are generated from heat-producing electrolysis processes and can be explosive.
It must be clear in our process of creating SG Gas, electrolysis does not take place.
"Electrolysis" is defined as a "method of separating chemically bonded elements and compounds by passing an electric current through them." Electrolysis does not take place and no splitting of the water molecular bonds occurs, as is demonstrated by the fact that no increase in hydrogen or oxygen gas can be measured in the reaction zone during the production of SG Gas. This is a key differentiator from the processes that have resulted in other gases that were and are produced by electrolysis of water. The gases produced by electrolysis exhibit far different properties from that of SG Gas. Gases produced by electrolysis are explosive, cannot be pressurized and are heat-producing gases on ignition.
Our process for creating the more stable, safer SG Gas is neither heat producing (no electrolysis) nor involves any splitting of hydrogen and oxygen bonds from the water molecule that could create an explosive situation.

The Science behind SG Gas
The Scientific Discovery of the Fourth State of Water and SG Gas