COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie

[EgmQC]

EgmQC - to establish the energy delivered by the battery I take the value of the instantaneous current determined by the voltage measured across the shunt resistor multiplied by the battery voltage. If I want to measure the wattage dissipated at the resistor I can apply V^2/R or I can take temperature measurements and relate this to the wattage dissipated. We reference temperature because the resistor is inductive and it adds too many variables to the calculation of wattage.

EDIT - This is not my unique protocol. It's the protocol stipulated by classicists and is generally applied.

You take the voltage across the resistor / resistor Ohm to get the Amp and you multiply by the battery voltage seriously ? you kidding us right ?

you said 1.2V across the resistor , so 1.2/0.25 = 4.8A and you multiply the 4.8A by the batterie voltage is just a non sense, im sorry but i cant beleive you wrote that. Its Voltage across resistor MUTIPLIED BY the Amp (Vr/Ohm) = The number of watt.

[Hoppy]

Hoppy - the purpose of the shunt resistor is to determine the amount of current flowing through the system. If I were to base my energy values on that proposed by EgmQC I would be over unity by far greater than 16.

With reference to the example that I used in the above I was pointing out that the 'recharge' cycle does not result in energy lost to the system. It represents - at that moment - a gain to the system. Therefore it must be seen as such.

Why am I telling you this? I'm not proposing for one minute that the battery is at 50volts. I'm talking about the one moment when there is a recharge which corresponds to the negative value of the voltage across the shunt. My point being twofold. The one is that computation of the energy delivered at this point must include both moments simultaneously. edit. By this I mean that the voltage at the battery must be multiplied by the amperage at the shunt to give the instantaneous power. By TK's admission they are not multiplied together instantaneously because he took the readings at separate times. The second point is that unless he's referencing the DC coupled value's he can't tell whether it is above zero or not.

EDIT - for some reason EgmQC is proposing the the wattage on the system be determined by the wattage determined from voltage across the shunt. I have no idea why?

Rosemary,

You keep referring to power as energy which is not the case. Energy is power * time (in seconds). The instantaneous energy levels in the re-charge are very small indeed compared with the total energy supplied to invoke the recharge on each switching cycle. This is what you will find out if you interpret the results of your future testing correctly.

Who will be writing the testing method and procedure and driving the storage scope now you have been loaned one?

Hoppy

[witsend]

EgmQC - to establish the energy delivered by the battery I take the value of the instantaneous current determined by the voltage measured across the shunt resistor multiplied by the battery voltage. If I want to measure the wattage dissipated at the resistor I can apply V^2/R or I can take temperature measurements and relate this to the wattage dissipated. We reference temperature because the resistor is inductive and it adds too many variables to the calculation of wattage.

EDIT - This is not my unique protocol. It's the protocol stipulated by classicists and is generally applied.

[EgmQC]

Hoppy - the purpose of the shunt resistor is to determine the amount of current flowing through the system. If I were to base my energy values on that proposed by EgmQC I would be over unity by far greater than 16.

With reference to the example that I used in the above I was pointing out that the 'recharge' cycle does not result in energy lost to the system. It represents - at that moment - a gain to the system. Therefore it must be seen as such.

Why am I telling you this? I'm not proposing for one minute that the battery is at 50volts. I'm talking about the one moment when there is a recharge which corresponds to the negative value of the voltage across the shunt. My point being twofold. The one is that computation of the energy delivered at this point must include both moments simultaneously. edit. By this I mean that the voltage at the battery must be multiplied by the amperage at the shunt to give the instantaneous power. By TK's admission they don't. The second point is that unless he's referencing the DC coupled value's he can't tell whether it is above zero or not.

EDIT - for some reason EgmQC is proposing the the wattage on the system be determined by the wattage determined from voltage across the shunt. I have no idea why?

Rosemary, to know the number of W applied to a resistor you take the voltage across the resistor and divide the result by the Ohm of your resistor, that will give you the amp , now you can use the V*I=W, its the most elementary calcule you can make in electronic. if you got COP 17 with your wrong calcule then yes your right, your system is ALOT MORE than COP 17.

EgmQC

[witsend]

- - - - - - - - -

Rosemary !

Peswiki has recently posted 6 short video presentations by Keshe. :

Directory:Keshe Foundation - PESWiki

Enjoy !
Mike Hingle

I read it Mike. If it's true then we've joined this party far too late. Sounds amazing and really wonderful.

[witsend]

Rosemary,

You said: "The battery recharges, power through, voltage first drops - then a spike to, what was it - say 50 volts or thereby?" This 50V you used to multiply with 4.8 Amps to get 240W is not the battery voltage. But I can see now how you get high COP!

Hoppy

Hoppy - the purpose of the shunt resistor is to determine the amount of current flowing through the system. If I were to base my energy values on that proposed by EgmQC I would be over unity by far greater than 16.

With reference to the example that I used in the above I was pointing out that the 'recharge' cycle does not result in energy lost to the system. It represents - at that moment - a gain to the system. Therefore it must be seen as such.

Why am I telling you this? I'm not proposing for one minute that the battery is at 50volts. I'm talking about the one moment when there is a recharge which corresponds to the negative value of the voltage across the shunt. My point being twofold. The one is that computation of the energy delivered at this point must include both moments simultaneously. edit. By this I mean that the voltage at the battery must be multiplied by the amperage at the shunt to give the instantaneous power. By TK's admission they are not multiplied together instantaneously because he took the readings at separate times. The second point is that unless he's referencing the DC coupled values he can't tell whether it is above zero or not.

EDIT - for some reason EgmQC is proposing the the wattage on the system be determined by the wattage determined from voltage across the shunt. I have no idea why?

second edit. I might add that I'm rather hoping TK will leave both his last posts without any further editing. They say everything and they also explain why EgmQC uses this point

[Hoppy]

I'm referring to TK's SHUNT RESISTOR. It's there to determine amperage. I would therefore multiply it with battery voltage.

Rosemary,

You said: "The battery recharges, power through, voltage first drops - then a spike to, what was it - say 50 volts or thereby?" This 50V you used to multiply with 4.8 Amps to get 240W is not the battery voltage. But I can see now how you get high COP!

Hoppy

[mikehingle]

Mike, Very interesting. What is that KT liquid? My guess, vinegar? I think that's a jolly good ad for Coca Cola. Neat. Love to know more here. Especially the carbon deposits. It doesn't really tell enough.

Do you know more about this company? Are you involved?

- - - - - - - - -

Rosemary !

Peswiki has recently posted 6 short video presentations by Keshe. :

Directory:Keshe Foundation - PESWiki

Enjoy !
Mike Hingle

[witsend]

if you have 1.2v across the resistor and 4.8 amp then V*I = 1.2 * 4.8, so 5.76W , not 240W.

EgmQC

I'm referring to TK's SHUNT RESISTOR. It's there to determine amperage. I would therefore multiply it with battery voltage.

[EgmQC]

The battery recharges, power through, voltage first drops - then a spike to, what was it - say 50 volts or thereby? At that same moment the value across the shunt say 0.4volts positive drops to about 1.2volts negative, (aproximate because I couldn't see the actual value) . Then how do you work out the product of the energy available at that moment? In my reckoning it is 1.2/0.25 = plus/minus 4.8 amps. So. I need to be reasonably certain that the actual energy calculated at that moment as v*i = 240 watts BACK TO THE SYSTEM. (Again not shouting. Just emphasis)

if you have 1.2v across the resistor and 4.8 amp then V*I = 1.2 * 4.8, so 5.76W , not 240W.

EgmQC

[witsend]

YES.

Great news: A very good digital storage scope with everything needed; which should come with free acquisition and analysis software that will allow small chunks of data to be stored on puter HD and later analyzed in a dozen different ways.

there you go.

[jibbguy]

YES.

Great news: A very good digital storage scope with everything needed; which should come with free acquisition and analysis software that will allow small chunks of data to be stored on puter HD and later analyzed in a dozen different ways.

[witsend]

Guys - SOME REALLY GOOD NEWS

Tektronix are lending us the use of a Tektronix 4 channel TDS 3054 500 mHz bandwidth for our tests

This is really good news. As I've said before, if anyone wants to argue results after this then they must argue with God.

SO WATCH THIS SPACE. My guess is that soon and maybe within a week or two we'll be in the happy position of posting some tests on youtube.

AND MANY THANKS TO ALL THOSE AT TEKTRONIX WHO ORGANISED AND ALLOWED THIS

Jibbguy - You'll be pleased I think.

[Hoppy]

Hoppy - please be proactive here. Just detail the test protocol required to determine the test without the use of storage meters? Would you mind? I'd be much obliged.

Rosemary, I've already done this by saying in a much earlier post that if a good quality BCM is used to measure battery capacity before and after the test, a system running considerably overunity as yours is claimed to do, will be obvious. There is no need for complicated and time consuming test procedures. If you really are running at COP17 (thats 16 pints back into the fridge), then you should easily self-run the system. Aaron should be able to make this happen and video it for everyone.

Hoppy

[witsend]

Hoppy - please be proactive here. Just detail the test protocol required to determine the test without the use of storage meters? Would you mind? I'd be much obliged.