COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie

[ashtweth]

Thanks Jib.Guys thanks to Harvey, Glen and Rose, here is some helpful beginner notes for all, these are going in the doc.

The original tests were set to 2.4KHz, 3.7%. The mosfet series gate resistance (100 ohms multi turn, or can be a combination of smaller value multi-turns for more circuit stability in series to make 100 ohms) has to be adjusted until a chaotic waveform shows up on the 0.25 ohm shunt resistor. This chaotic ringing can easily be achieved but there is one sweet spot where the circuit will not consume battery power but rather charge the battery slowly.

Use a 2 channel oscilloscope and line the spikes up (as per the scope screen shot shown). <100ns_a_10-16-09.jpg>



Measure one channel across the shunt resistor and the other channel across the battery. You may have to use a x10 or x100 voltage divider when measuring the battery to avoid spiking / damage to the oscilloscope. Here is a screen shot of an oscilloscope showing what sort of voltages and transients you may expect: <TEK00004.png>



You may need to adjust the frequency and duty cycle to find the sweet spot on the chaotic ringing waveform. Adjust the series gate resistance first.

Other notes:For those researching and developing: If you change the resistor / inductance value, be sure to change the frequency / duty cycle appropriately to the inductive reactance and the resistance value.

Do not put a diode / capacitor across the load resistor to collect the back spikes. The mosfet / resistor will also get hot so ensure adequate heatsinking.


Ps..here is MIT and other universities caught in the HACK sorry ACT.

They should pay attention they may learn some thing

[jibbguy]

Sure M8 Will do! But remember what they say in show biz, "Any publicity is good publicity" hehehe.

M.I.T. can't just read the damn forum thread, lol?

HEELLOOO... This is Open Source! Get that through your genius heads, lol.

[ashtweth]

Hi All, Rosie, Fuzz and Harvey had a great conference with Andrew i got all the data and will write it up for the PDF and post, also looks like we will getting closer to being able to rep and ill work towards some uni tests to help the data for ALL.

@ Rose
Yup, Andrew showed me the Hack screen shots, il post them here later, MIT and many universities are trying to find out how to make a COP 17 heater, they are all trying to hack in, guess they want to learn
Unbelievable wait till you see the screen shots guys. Jib, can you put them on face book?

Ash

[witsend]

The Hack Attack

Guys - check your computers. Our own, that is Fuzzy, Harvey, mine, and Ash and Co - are getting an attack from hell. Multiple hits from multiple institutions including - from memory - MIT, BBC, CNN, a slew of universities including NY, McGill, Kentucky, MIT, Boston, Harvard, Russian Academy of Sciences, Algonquin - sundry Instits in China, US Naval Air Facility - and others. On average about 4 hits every minute which is conservative. Some moments we get a multiple attack of about 20 more or less simultaneously.

If these attacks are a measure of interest in our development here - then I think it's reasonable to conclude that we've got a lot of interest and that its global. Golly. Until yesterday I had no idea. Just realised that there was plenty of evidence to show that info from our computers was getting out.



edit: Number and qualification.

[Harvey]

@Ash and Andrew,

Thank you for your post regarding the construction of the resistor. I would be very interested in this test with that device:


Get a drinking Thermos (glass construction, insulated and reflective) and place your resistor in that Thermos. Carefully measure distilled water (it is the salts in water that makes it conductive, distilled water is virtually not conductive) and fill the Thermos to completely cover the resistor. Allow the water to reach room temperature, and using a thermometer, record the temperature. Do Not Seal The Thermos.

Ensure your Mosfet has a good heat sink.

Using your 10MHz scope, set the duty cycle of your board to 50%. Record the temperature rise of the water every minute until it is stable for at least 5 minutes. If the temperature continues to rise even after 15 minutes of operation, you may wish to expand the logging interval to every 5 minutes instead of 1 minute. If the temperature continues to rise even after 30 minutes, then you may wish to restart the test and set the duty cycle to 25% instead. We are looking for a point of equalization between the work done and its dissipation. The Thermos will help to contain the energy losses of the resistor and make them readable. The per minute readings will tell us what the rate of heating is.

Another fun test you may try by increasing the duty cycle:
If you are able to get your water to boil (212°F or 100°C) and hold it there, you can measure the quantity of water evaporated at the end of your test and compare it to the accurate quantity you started with. Using this information: It takes 1kW-hr to evaporate 3.5Lbs of water at 212° at sea level. This is the same as saying 1.5876 kilograms of water at 100°C. There is one kilogram of water per liter. A Stere is one cubic meter, there is 1000kg in a Stere and there are 1000 liters in a Stere. So it is easily 1.5876 Liters of evaporation per kW-hr (that is just under 54 fluid ounces [53.68] or about 6-3/4 cups). Naturally we wouldn't expect your thermos to hold that much water and you can do the test for 15 minutes instead of a full hour and get the same results. Also, we don't expect you to reach 1kW. Here is a helpful site for various conversions: GoConvert.com - Volume Measurements

To be really scientific, you should chill the water to 39°F (4°C) before measuring it - both during the fill and during the after test as this is the temperature that relates the weight to the volume. But for the home laboratory I don't think you have to be so accurate, you just want to find out if your circuit is producing heat or not.

Once you are satisfied that the resistor is producing heat and we couldn't detect it by the earlier methods, then we can focus on helping you get into the aperiodic harmonic mode that produces more heat than is expected.

Your Tri-Filar parallel resistor certainly is unique and may have a higher current to temperature curve. We could probably use the curve chart for a wire with the same 6 ohms/ft and multiply the current by 3 for your application.

Cheers,

[ashtweth]

Guys i joined the private B-Hex group have a toroid wound already and the 3G board(older board but still works), ill talk to Bob (i know him) about the Hex stuff and get what info i can to Luc and Alex give me a week.

Back on deck! Guys Brilliant new info/results and explanations, makes us feel like babies still on a pacifier . Thanks a lot guys for the extra help, unbelievable talent in this forum. We are learning a lot dont think we are not

K, Andrew and i are still at it. And will be till its done Here is the report i got from Andrew, @Rosie, will drop you a skype thanks for your message. I might get Andrew to trial different components will have a chat about it this weekend. I dont like our sealant and resistor, think it might be ONE prob.

---------------

Hey all,

Thankyou for your posts.

@ Rosie:
I've had the mosfet running chaotic previously, although it gets hot very quickly. Has anyone blown any mosfets by doing this? Would the mosfet need additional cooling?

@ FuzzyTomCat:
The prototype "Quantum" load resistor I constructed was based on your replication resistor (32mm diameter, 48 turns spaced 1mm, 150mm long, 10 ohms). The resistor core was made from PVC pipe cut down the side to reduce to the correct diameter.

I have a cheap LCD screen oscilloscope that will only show a waveform and some sort of indication of voltage and screen duration (us, ms, s). The oscilloscope is 10MHz.

The ferrite resistor core is simply 3 separate rods that can be inserted or removed easily. The 3 rods are black in color. When inserted, the inductance increases. I believe they are soft ferrite (no significant magnetism retained).

@ Harvey:

I applied the Bostik Matrix FC sealant by blobbing on and then rubbing it in. It was not agitated after being left to cure. Thermal insulation? Maybe I should remove the excess sealant from the top of the windings?

The resistor was constructed from resistance wire of 6 ohms per meter (3 x 5m lengths of 30 ohms in parallel = 10 ohms). The information regarding the insulation for the resistance wire can be found at 1.5mm Black Heatshrink Tubing - Jaycar Electronics (Cat# WH5530). The Bostik Matrix FC sealant was then applied over the top of this.

The ferrite core is as explained to Glen.

@ Rosie:

Thanks for the post on the various tests of the Ainslie COP>17 circuit from OU. I look forward to reading the paper you submit at the end of November.
The self oscillating frequency I believe can be achieved with the correct amount of series gate resistance?


Andrew

[gotoluc]

Thanks Groundloop for the extra details and update

Please do post a link here to the post of the new results.

Thanks for your great work as usual and for sharing.

Luc

[Groundloop]

Luc,

May I add that I also will receive the same core as seen in the videos,
together with the silver plated, Teflon insulated, solid copper wire. So
my Torroid transformer will be an very close replica. I have recently also
designed a 3 channel switch that uses the same fet drivers and hexfet
transistors as the BB controller, but with a PIC16F84A as a driver. If
anybody want the circuit drawings and pcb design files then just go
here: http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/hexfetswitch.rar and download them.
(Files will open in Cadsoft Eagle.)

I have not built this new circuit yet. I will first try out the one I already have.
If that turns out negative then I will build the new switch also.

I apologize for the off topic post.

Alex.

[jibbguy]

Thanks M8, and my apologies to Groundloop for missing that one

[gotoluc]

In this possibly-related story today on Peswiki, Sterling Allen reports on a South African man, screen name is "Watkykjy1", who has built a Bob Boyce-designed hex MOSFET programmable controller PWM that he claims recharges the battery at OU potential.... Using extremely fast /sharp pulses of "0.3% duty cycle".

This sounds familiar

Essentially he uses a system originally designed for hydroxy production, to generate 6 separate high frequency pulses summed on the same signal, the idea being to get as many pulses with the fastest rise times possible.

Child Rides EV Toy on Boyce Free Energy!


This takes us into a new realm, that of writing code and programming firmware. But an enterprising person skilled in this could write an executable to do this for others (even an HTML), once it is studied and the best F's found... Then all that would be needed to control the setup is an old used laptop.

Mr. Boyce shocked the F-E world recently with his announcement that he has been fighting a rare terminal cancer. Our hopes and prayers go out for his recovery! In the "Hydroxy" Yahoo Group (which Mr. Boyce has been a major contributer for years now), many have suggested natural and alkalizing alternatives as cures.

Hi jibbguy,

about a month ago I advised user: Groundloop of this HEX-Switch claim and he immediately replicated a circuit that does this fast rise time and super short duty cycle switching claimed that is needed to make this work.

However, still to date he has been unable to get a battery to recharge using this circuit and coil configuration. The only thing left to try is the special silver plated magnet wire which he will receive soon. However he does not think this will make that much of a difference.

Groundloop has been working in electronics for 20 or more years. So if he can't replicate the effect then I would suggest we don't consider this as a valid claim yet.

If anyone has details that you beleive would help Groundloop to replicate, please do contact him.

Here is a topic at Energetic he has posted his circuit:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...placement.html

Added here is a topic at OU that Sterling of Peswiki.com has started to which Groundloop has also replied.

Bob Boyce Hex Controller

Luc

[witsend]

Guys - sorry another one of those 'overview' type posts. Bear with me I feel we need to consider this point.

I'm reasonably certain that most members of this forum subscribe to the conviction that COP>1 or even OU would be evidenced through the some dramatic event resulting either in huge amounts of energy being generated from nothing - or alternatively - tapping into this field of energy and just running a work station - forever. Hints of both conditions are claimed fairly liberally throughout the forum and gains are often unequivocal if not entirely useable. The best evidence is probably in the ERR development - but that, apparently, is being carefully developed due to the hazards associated with tapping into these fields.

Our little test offers small wattage values and - while the numbers indicate over unity - the battery charge does not seem to evidence this. On all tests conducted there is an evident recharge cycle - but over time the voltage across the batteries seem to deplete - notwithstanding the wattage analysis at zero loss to the battery supply. Certainly there is evidence that it exceeds its watt hour rating. But somehow it lacks the dramatic moment associated with any claim to have 'cracked' that unity barrier.

However, the oscillating condition of the battery with the circuit components is such that the instability of that resonance renders measurements difficult. This, in turn, is coupled with the fact that the experimental constraints are limited to the measuring instruments used. What we have at our disposal - and referenced with gratitude - is what Fuzzy describes as a 'Ferari'. And he loves driving this. And we are all extremely grateful for the generous offer that allowed us to access this TDS3054C. But like all DSO's it has certain voltage constraints - and while these are nominal - they prevent any testing on those super high wattage values that I suspect you all want to see.

But this constraint aside - we still have the evidence required for the claim. But it is simply as if we have opened the door a small way. One possible advantage here is that the door is wedged open with a thesis which - albeit both skeletal and conceptual - predicted the result. As mentioned rather copiously - our hope is that this will generate the research and, more to the point, the funds for the research - that this effect warrants. Fuzzy has already secured some interest - but the wider applications - that needs far wider investment both in interest and money.

I am reasonably confident that eventually that door will be opened wide, certainly wide enough to show these effects more strongly and more convincingly. At this stage I'm just so grateful that we have something to point to - even if all the questions are not answered and even if the applied wattage is still modest. At least it has been proven and proven with instruments that are wholly reliable - on tests that are entirely repeatable - and using measurement protocols that are classically required.

It is said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I'm satisfied that our proof is indeed sufficient - based as it is on the hard work that Fuzzy has put into this and on the impeccable standards of experimentation that he has applied. With some more tweeking - and with more time - I'm also satisfied that those more dramatic effects will be evident. At this stage we're still peeking around the crack in the door and can't quite see the size of that room. But we've got our foot in the door. We just need mainstream to help open it a little wider and share some of that view.

[jibbguy]

In this possibly-related story today on Peswiki, Sterling Allen reports on a South African man, screen name is "Watkykjy1", who has built a Bob Boyce-designed hex MOSFET programmable controller PWM that he claims recharges the battery at OU potential.... Using extremely fast /sharp pulses of "0.3% duty cycle".

This sounds familiar

Essentially he uses a system originally designed for hydroxy production, to generate 6 separate high frequency pulses summed on the same signal, the idea being to get as many pulses with the fastest rise times possible.

Child Rides EV Toy on Boyce Free Energy!


This takes us into a new realm, that of writing code and programming firmware. But an enterprising person skilled in this could write an executable to do this for others (even an HTML), once it is studied and the best F's found... Then all that would be needed to control the setup is an old used laptop.

Mr. Boyce shocked the F-E world recently with his announcement that he has been fighting a rare terminal cancer. Our hopes and prayers go out for his recovery! In the "Hydroxy" Yahoo Group (which Mr. Boyce has been a major contributer for years now), many have suggested natural and alkalizing alternatives as cures.

[witsend]

Hi Guys. This was posted over at OU. and it may be needed by Ash. I think the sequence is right.

I'm going to give a brief reference to each test and its objects - from memory - so I may be out on the actual sequence. Test 1 & 2 attempted replication of heat test published in quantum. Both failed. #3 resulted in OU. #4 again failed (evident lack of harmonic else all was the same). #5 full overunity (no evident power lost from the battery other than microwatt loss from the battery possibly due to overcharged condiition) Harmonic evident. #6 intended as control. Tested alternate load resistor and could not manage the required harmonic. Failed. #7 intended to test higher temperatures - showed results that were extraordinary but was terminated due voltage levels that could possibly stress the measuring equipment. #8 designed to remove clips - shorten leads - tidy up the circuit and then also test Harvey's bootstrapping. Results even better and both grounding and bootstrapping concerns eliminated. #9 changed the source shunt resistor with a non-inductive resistor. No difference to the waveform - but COP > 3 which was less than previous 'pass' tests. #10 designed to check the voltage deviation across the source shunt. Intensive 'dumps' every 6 minutes over 1 hour. Determined this was within the required range to allow application of the formulae developed by Harvey. Also results back to OU. Harmonic strongly evident.

This essentially means that the thesis is shown to be proven on replicated tests. Also, measurments are not the result of an inductive shunt - grounding issues - bad wiring - faulty equipment - bad probes - wrong measurement or anything that Poynty has been trying to show us. Anomalies in the waveforms persist - and COP seems to be substantially displaced with outright OU. We're busy writing that paper - and still want to test two different resistors to determine what conditions require that harmonic which is a signature that seems to be associated with these extraordinary results. The hope is to submit the paper at the end of November. We seem to be on track for this. The news is all good. It is just that until submission and review - our own excitement is relatively subdued. That acceptance is critical and we need to submit something at the required standard. But the thesis is proven. Questions persist to explain the anomalous heat signatures and waveforms - but that there are questions remaining is actually a really good thing.

And the effect - which I always assumed would be 'easy to show' proves to be a really subtle moment found when the circuit components generate a self-oscillating frequency. This, as Jibbguy has referenced - has traditionally been factored out of circuitry as undesirable.

[Harvey]

Hi Ash and Andrew,

Here is the data sheet for Bostik Matrix FC

This is a thixotropic polyurethane. A thixotropic gel relates to how the material is applied and essentially reacts like the inverse of a non-newtonian liquid in that it becomes 'thinner' (more liquid) when stirred or agitated. I would hope this is not the case after it is cured as certain conditions in these coils can lead to recursive microphony and that could liquefy your material.

You will note that the maxium service temperature is 80°C while some polyurethanes are actually used as thermal insulation (See http://www.assanpanel.com.tr/en-us/Q...s/Attach.1.pdf) Like Glen's Silicone covering, the real temperature of your resistor wire may not be making it out to the outer surface of the material due to the very low thermal conduction and very high heat capacity of the material. I might add here that the original Ainslie group had temperatures over 50°C above ambient (~20°C) so your material is at its limits if these condition were to surface.

You also have two other factors of importance. You have used a stranded insulated wire. We do not know what the insulation material is around your wire, but if that wire is a type of heater wire then the insulation is probably a silicone material. It could take days of constant heat for your resistor to fully equalize and present the correct temperature to the outside world depending on how far the wire is above ambient. Next we would need to have a look at the stranded wire specifications to determine how current through the wire relates to heat. A chart like this one is helpful in determining the expected temperatures due to current flow in a tightly wound coil of the material.

Rosemary contends the energy observed as increased heat (above that expected by current flow) is partially a result of matter fluctuations which increase with the mass of the wire. So according to her thesis she expects there to be an increase in heating as the wire size is increased. This result is counter intuitive because classically we expect the heat to be caused by resistive means. Where her case could be partially supported by the classical Joule heating in the cross section of a thick wire while current flow on the skin produces the necessary induction, we are still left to determine the source of the surplus heat that seems to be present.

Also, I might draw attention to your ferrite core which also serves as a thermal sink and radiator and can adversely impact the expected temperature.

[FuzzyTomCat]

Keep em coming guys thanks for all the new info, progress is addictive?

Okay still ironing out bugs, just adding this here to let you know we are still in the shop . Thanks for being patient and helpful for all's PDF guys, i sincerley appreciate it.

Ash

Hey Glen / all,

I have followed Glen's advice on removing the back spike recovery diode / capacitor / discharge resistor, and tuning the gate resistance for the maximum voltage on the 24v battery. The board used was set for 2.4KHz 3.7%. Nothing exciting to write back about, but here is a log of the test:

* battery no load: 25.65v
* 38mA load, run for 1 minute with ferrite rods: 25.5v
* 28mA load, run for 5 minutes with ferrite rods: 25.45v
* Experimented with adjusting 10 ohm variable resistor - no improved results. * Calibated back to 5.5 ohms.
* Re start timer.
* 28mA load, with ferrite rods: 25.5v
* 28mA load, run for 1 minute with ferrite rods: 25.46v
* 28mA load, run for 3 minutes with ferrite rods: 25.45
* checked a few times between the 3 minute mark up until 40 minutes run - the battery stabilized at 25.45v
* I removed the ferrite rods from inside the resistor, the current draw went up, the battery voltage went down. I quickly re inserted the ferrite rods and the battery voltage stabilized at 25.45v
* There was no noticeable heat on the inductive resistor

Looking at the Quantum October 2002 article, I see they have a 100 ohm variable resistor on the mosfet gate, and that they get frequency oscillations between 143KHz and 200KHz @ 1.3% on a 2.4KHz 3.7% 555 timer board.
These oscillations must be the same wild oscillations I experienced previously. The quantum article states that the 10 ohm wirewound resistor also got fairly warm using 2.4KHz, 3.7%, and the high frequency mosfet oscillations.

What do you suggest?

Andrew

Hi Ash and Andrew,

Thanks again for your testing and evaluation of the RA COP>17 Heater Circuit .....

I am curious about the results you are having possibly could be because of the prototype "Quamtum" load resistor you have constructed ..... I was able to find your Images you posted earlier in the thread POST #2989

Imageshack - glensresistorreplicatioy
Imageshack - glensresistorreplicatio

I think there may be a heat sink problem with the resistor core material and the silicone covering that was used .... can you list the materials that was used for construction so Harvey, Rosie or I can make a determination of what could be possibly wrong so we can resolve it. I suggest you may try the purchased load resistor you have and see if there is any heat generated with it to make sure all your circuit components are working properly.

Do you know if you will be able to get any oscilloscope wave form shots .... I know at present you haven't a scope .... but were all hoping

Best Regards,
Glen


************************************************** *******
EDIT - I just noticed you posted a "Ferrite" resistor core .......

Ferrite is a class of ceramic material with useful electromagnetic properties and an interesting history. Ferrite is rigid and brittle. Like other ceramics, ferrite can chip and break if handled roughly. Luckily it is not as fragile as porcelain and often such chips and cracks will be merely cosmetic. Ferrite varies from silver gray to black in color. The electromagnetic properties of ferrite materials can be affected by operating conditions such as temperature, pressure, field strength, frequency and time.

There are basically two varieties of ferrite: soft and hard. This is not a tactile quality but rather a magnetic characteristic. 'Soft ferrite' does not retain significant magnetization whereas 'hard ferrite' magnetization is considered permanent. Fair-Rite ferrite materials are of the 'soft' variety.

Ferrite has a cubic crystalline structure with the chemical formula MO.Fe2O3 where Fe2O3 is iron oxide and MO refers to a combination of two or more divalent metal (i.e: zinc, nickel, manganese and copper) oxides. The addition of such metal oxides in various amounts allows the creation of many different materials whose properties can be tailored for a variety of uses.

Could you verify that this is what your prototype "Quantum" load resistor core is made of ..... this could be a problem if it is "Ferrite"........