COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie

[gotoluc]

Hi Luc your back! Thanks for the new Vid, Luc if it comes to that ill get Andrew to make a donation to your pay pal for the stashing of winter nuts my friend Thanks a lot Luc. We are not gonna give up till this circuit is ready for testing in the real work and get data back for all.

Ash

I should be fine my friend ... it was a good harvest season

Thanks mate!

Luc

[FuzzyTomCat]

What an amazing effort glen thanks so much have added it all and backed it up in the PDF for all. We did a few more tests based on the advice, think we may have to move onto your components my friend. here is the Comments i got From Andrew. Thank U again for your hard work Glen.

Ash

--------------

Hey Glen,

Thankyou for your recent post on the Energetic Forum (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post68569)

I have some questions though:
1. If you are using a 12v battery to power your circuit - as the battery voltage falls (from load and use), wouldn't the 555 timer need readjusting to maintain the same frequency / duty cycle?
2. Have you had any issues using power supplies? (transformer / rectifier / filter or switchmode)
3. You mention of using a total resistance of 4,688 ohms in series between the 12V+ and the +input of the 555 timer. You also have a 100uF capacitor after the 4,688 ohms of resistance / 1N914 diode. Wouldn't that take a while to charge the capacitor before sufficient voltage reaches the 555 timer to operate? Would you recommend adding the 4K resistance?
4. I note your hand wound resistor (http://www.energeticforum.com/68032-post2684.html). Would you recommend more or less inductance? I guess that comes down to frequency of operation to get the right spike.
5. Out of curiosity, has anyone tried a plain inductor on this circuit in place of the resistor? Resistance slows down the charging of an inductor, so if you increase the inductance - you would need less resistance for the same operating frequency.

Thanks for that,

Andrew

@ ash Thanks for adding this to the PDF and the kind words, this project is really getting good now with repeatable results that stick

@ andrew Hi...

1) The 12 volt lead "liquid" acid" 12 Ah battery used on the Ainslie - Murakami Negitive Dominant Waveform Generator Circuit uses a small amount of battery power maybe .01 volts every 4 to 5 hours so if tuned properly won't drain the battery much during testing. The same with the Rosemary Ainslie COP>17 Heater Circuit but this battery can be a 12 Volt "gel" type 7 Ah battery

2) I used two (2) 12 Volt "gel" lead acid Battery's for the 24 Volt Rosemary Ainslie COP>17 Heater Circuit load and had bad results because it calls for two (2) 12 Volt "Liquid" lead acid 10AH batteries and needs them for the circuit to work better I think it has something to do with resonance. I never have hooked up a other type of power supply but can, just never have.

3) The added 4,000 ohms was only on the Ainslie - Murakami Negitive Dominant Waveform Generator Circuit for more resistance .... why we needed it, changing to the new 10 ohm prototype resistor "ONLY" .... Aaron and I both were surprised and I don't know why, but in order to lower the 555 timer voltage that is what we had to do. The other Rosemary Ainslie COP>17 Heater Circuit leave it the same but maybe change only the 1N4007 diode out to a 1N914 or a 1N4148 the 555 circuit works much better.

4) The 10 ohm prototype resistor is a strange one as for the effects it had on the 555 circuit so right now I need to make another because I left the original with Aaron so he might have time to do a replication of the replication using his components and the prototype resistor. As far as more or less inductance ... unknown at this time but what we recorded was very different.

5) I haven't use a inductor yet Aaron or gotoluc may have ..... they may chime in with some information hopefully if they have

Hope this helps

Glen

[Aaron]

Ainslie circuit lighting CFL video

YouTube - Rosemary Ainslie circuit driving fluorescent light tube 1 wire

Taking spikes from inductive resistor at high frequency and putting them to a compact fluorescent light (CFL). It will partially light a 42 watt tube light with one wire. This is just to show it can be done but more work needs to be done to optimize it and to see if there is any eventual advantage over the joule thief or Imhotep type oscillating light circuits.

[Harvey]

Guess I missed this post, just came across it looking for one of my posts.

No it certainly does not clear anything up as I am not the one confused about this issue. I'll state it one last time, then you're on your own:

The internal/output impedance of a constant voltage source is zero, i.e "0". Always and forever, no matter what analysis you apply to it, or how you interpret that analysis.

.99

Sorry you missed it - I thought it was very informative. I agree that an "Ideal" source has no impedance - are you certain that the Protel VSRC is 'Ideal'?

[ashtweth]

Hi Luc your back! Thanks for the new Vid, Luc if it comes to that ill get Andrew to make a donation to your pay pal for the stashing of winter nuts my friend Thanks a lot Luc. We are not gonna give up till this circuit is ready for testing in the real work and get data back for all.

Ash

[Harvey]

Hi Ash,

The 555 is very tolerant of voltage changes because its timing is based on ratios, Trigger at 1/3 Vcc and Discharge at 2/3 Vcc.



I have tried off the shelf inductors. but I don't have anything that small (8.64µH). A series resistance limits the maximum current the inductor can pass thereby limiting its maximum charge value - this will cause the inductor to charge faster, but never reaching saturation. It is a bit counter intuitive, adding resistance sharpens the rise time of the waveform for inductors.

[gotoluc]

Hi all,

glad you're receiving your boards. All thanks should all go to Groundloop

His help and generosity over the years has been most amazing for those who now have the board can see the Pro job he has done.

@ Ash, if you want a board or 2 send me your address mate!

Looks like allot of the discussion is about measuring meters... way over my skills

I still build my meters with wood sticks : YouTube - Effect of Recirculating BEMF to Coil test 16

Luc

P.S. If you have comments about the video please post them only in this topic: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...f-coil-10.html

[ashtweth]

@ Rosemary, Thanks I hope giving as much information on this replication so more people may find it easier to do .... a difficult but interesting circuit

@ Harvey, Thanks anything I can do to help move the "Ainslie - Murakami Negitive Dominant Waveform Generator" circuit along .... can't wait to work on the "Rosemary Anislie COP>17 Heater Circuit" your working on to see what kind of results I get also.

@ Aaron, Such kind works from a gentleman and a scholar .... I had a incredible time with you and that surprise visit to meet Peter ...... worth every second of the two days there with you !!

@ Jibbguy , Were you right about the analog scope in Post 2229 at 50% you were generous the TDS 3054C is quite the machine.

@ Poynt99, Thats quite interesting using a DMM as you suggest, I'll have to try it .... I see some advantages to all of us that have older (20 year + -) analog scopes like 20Mhz to 250Mhz that have no "mean" feature at all, this could help us see or at least get in the ball park when needing mV or uV readings that most "TDS" type Tektronix oscilloscopes have with the high sampling rates and accurate recording abilities as a standard feature.

@ ash, Keep up the good work on your "Rosemary Anislie COP>17 Heater Circuit" and remember the 24 volt battery set of two (2) 12 volt lead "liquid" acid 10 Ah battery set is a important part to the replication just as the 10 ohm load resister is ...... and using a frequency meter on the battery (+) and (-) just the presence of your body near the circuit not just touching wires or waving your hand over it can for some reason change the frequency 200-500 Khz ..... so the pot being a antenna .... could be

Glen

What an amazing effort glen thanks so much have added it all and backed it up in the PDF for all. We did a few more tests based on the advice, think we may have to move onto your components my friend. here is the Comments i got From Andrew. Thank U again for your hard work Glen.

Ash

--------------

Hey Glen,

Thankyou for your recent post on the Energetic Forum (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post68569)

I have some questions though:
1. If you are using a 12v battery to power your circuit - as the battery voltage falls (from load and use), wouldn't the 555 timer need readjusting to maintain the same frequency / duty cycle?
2. Have you had any issues using power supplies? (transformer / rectifier / filter or switchmode)
3. You mention of using a total resistance of 4,688 ohms in series between the 12V+ and the +input of the 555 timer. You also have a 100uF capacitor after the 4,688 ohms of resistance / 1N914 diode. Wouldn't that take a while to charge the capacitor before sufficient voltage reaches the 555 timer to operate? Would you recommend adding the 4K resistance?
4. I note your hand wound resistor (http://www.energeticforum.com/68032-post2684.html). Would you recommend more or less inductance? I guess that comes down to frequency of operation to get the right spike.
5. Out of curiosity, has anyone tried a plain inductor on this circuit in place of the resistor? Resistance slows down the charging of an inductor, so if you increase the inductance - you would need less resistance for the same operating frequency.

Thanks for that,

Andrew

[Harvey]

MORE TO THE POYNT. Give us an explanation as to why you could not do what Harvey managed?

Because he doesn't understand source impedance of a regulated voltage source.

[FuzzyTomCat]

@ Rosemary, Thanks I hope giving as much information on this replication so more people may find it easier to do .... a difficult but interesting circuit

@ Harvey, Thanks anything I can do to help move the "Ainslie - Murakami Negitive Dominant Waveform Generator" circuit along .... can't wait to work on the "Rosemary Anislie COP>17 Heater Circuit" your working on to see what kind of results I get also.

@ Aaron, Such kind works from a gentleman and a scholar .... I had a incredible time with you and that surprise visit to meet Peter ...... worth every second of the two days there with you !!

@ Jibbguy , Were you right about the analog scope in Post 2229 at 50% you were generous the TDS 3054C is quite the machine.

@ Poynt99, Thats quite interesting using a DMM as you suggest, I'll have to try it .... I see some advantages to all of us that have older (20 year + -) analog scopes like 20Mhz to 250Mhz that have no "mean" feature at all, this could help us see or at least get in the ball park when needing mV or uV readings that most "TDS" type Tektronix oscilloscopes have with the high sampling rates and accurate recording abilities as a standard feature.

@ ash, Keep up the good work on your "Rosemary Anislie COP>17 Heater Circuit" and remember the 24 volt battery set of two (2) 12 volt lead "liquid" acid 10 Ah battery set is a important part to the replication just as the 10 ohm load resister is ...... and using a frequency meter on the battery (+) and (-) just the presence of your body near the circuit not just touching wires or waving your hand over it can for some reason change the frequency 200-500 Khz ..... so the pot being a antenna .... could be

Glen

[poynt99]

Hi Poynt99,

We just wanted to take a moment to remind you of our forum guidelines. You can find them here:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...uncements.html

While we welcome all opinions, we would like to keep out any posts that could be considered offensive, inflammatory or that are aimed at starting problems with other members.

Please remember to keep it positive!

Thanks so much!

Admin

Clearly if I've gone outside the guidelines of this forum, I am not alone. But that's besides the point.

Someone has complained, so this will be my last post here.

.99

[witsend]

Guess I missed this post, just came across it looking for one of my posts.

No it certainly does not clear anything up as I am not the one confused about this issue. I'll state it one last time, then you're on your own:

The internal/output impedance of a constant voltage source is zero, i.e "0". Always and forever, no matter what analysis you apply to it, or how you interpret that analysis.

.99

MORE TO THE POYNT. Give us an explanation as to why you could not do what Harvey managed?

[witsend]

Don't flatter yourself jibbguy, these posts on the subject are not done for you.

.99

Poynt - more's the pity. Jibbguy is an acknowledged expert on this subject. And Jibbguy on your ignore list? That's rich. You're almost holding a monologue here.

And Jibbguy - I would be VERY sorry if you allowed Poynt the last word here. What staggers me is that your post was reasonable and Poynt clearly is not equal to your example. But you must make allowances as he is still very young. I think he sees prestige in confrontation.

[poynt99]

Don't flatter yourself jibbguy, these posts on the subject are not done for you.

They are for folks that have an open mind and are willing to learn new and useful measurement methods, not for those that have backed themselves into a corner with their own limited beliefs, even when the numbers prove otherwise.

Respond all you wish, I won't be reading or even seeing your posts any longer

.99

[jibbguy]

WOW this is getting exciting (hehehe i guess i need to get out more then)

Congrats Fuzzy, and GREAT WORK m8!

Same to all the skilled Replicators, who have our deep respect and gratitude!

_______________________________

Poynte:

Your statement regarding the way the meters and scopes work is not correct at all. There is no real similarity. This is the difference between $150 and $6,500 .

Real Time Math is the accepted and reliable method of measurement because it is based on raw signal data... Signal that is not first manipulated. The algorithms used for the math are fully accepted and have been extensively tested under all circumstances. There are anti-aliasing filters built in to the devices, and sufficient Frequency Response to insure no data is lost.

How do i know this? Because in the old days, the government "GSA" and "Mil Spec" regulations required hard-copy paper chart recordings (by analog "high-speed" oscillographs) of the key processes for manufacturing most parts used in military applications (also, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for anything going into a nuc plant).

By the mid 90's, they had all discarded this requirement as the digital data from DSO's and data acquisition systems were proved in several very large and comprehensive independent studies to be more reliable than the old paper charts.

Millions of trees have been saved.... Lol and my old employer lost millions in revenue It forced us to scramble and get our own "paperless" DAQ systems out there (we already had the line of "Gould/Advance" Digital Storage Scopes, the first commercially available Digital Storage Oscilloscopes, manufactured in Hainault, Essex UK). But i can tell you, the market dropped from around $1 Billion to about half a Billion in less than 4 years once the digital storage medium was accepted.

However, these government-sponsored studies that were testing the reliability of digital storage stated that the analog front ends must not distort the signal and the possibility of "Digital Aliasing" must always be eliminated. For this reason, DMM's, even with a "Data Logging" option, were not acceptable.

Look, you can make a hundred vids, but you will not be able to convince Those That Matter in a hundred years that way:

The idea is to make convincing, plausible, and repeatable data sets ALWAYS BASED ON RAW SIGNAL DATA.

THAT IS HOW YOU GAIN CREDITABILITY and change minds, how you publish Papers that are accepted by your Peers. Using non-accepted methods of measurement only leave room for attack, give folks who don't WANT to believe it an easy out, and get you Rejection Notices from the publishers

The manufacturers of those meters WILL NOT recommend them for this application THEMSELVES.... Because they don't want to get sued.

Lol i can't explain it any more than that.

I would suggest you take all that time and energy and equipment, and put it towards doing something positive... If it will help, i will stop commenting on the subject and you can have one more post as the last word