COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie

[witsend]

Aaron - as best I understand it - the effect 'cascade' is possibly better encouraged with small resistance - apparently 100 Ohm. But for better stability you need to increase it up to 600 Ohm. But I was advised that it is better to experiment to find the best value.

That's the best I could do. Hopefully it'll help.

[poynt99]

Jibbguy - your post is excellent. I would be so glad to get Hoppy or MileHigh to look it over and give your input, if it's not asking too much. I think Jibbguy is showing us that those cascading aperiodic waveforms have been repeatedly evident and always dealt with through some means to obviate their effects.

Maybe .99? It seems to point to some means where the cascade effect can be engendered.

These oscillations in amplifier circuits are PERIODIC and are caused by phase shift and feedback. See Barkhausen Criterion for Oscillation. Cascaded transistors cause this gradual phase shift, and purpose-built oscillators can be based on this type of effect.

If the RA circuit exhibits APERIODIC oscillation, I am not certain this is purely the cause. Most likely it is "Barkhausen oscillation" experiencing puturbations from the pulsed nature of the switch, which makes it "appear" a-periodic. There will be a mix of the MOSFET's natural high frequency Barkhausen oscillation and the 2.4 kHz pulsing frequencies, and that could create quite a mess to make sense of, both for the eye and the oscilloscope.

I understood that this aperiodic oscillation was not a necessary factor for the circuit to exhibit overunity?

.99

[MileHigh]

Rosemary: Let me try the "buckets of energy" analogy for you.

In your proposed verification test, you have the extra battery. Imagine at the start the coil is an empty bucket of energy. The MOSFET switches on, and the energy from the big external water tank (the source battery) flows through the MOSFET and fills up the coil bucket with energy. The MOSFET is like a water valve. Then the MOSFET switches off, and the coil bucket of energy has to empty, and the energy is poured into a bigger battery bucket. This repeats and the battery bucket slowly fills up. There is no other place that the energy from the coil bucket can be "poured" so it goes into the battery bucket. The battery bucket is the extra battery.

Now we go back to your original circuit, the extra battery bucket is gone. So the MOSFET switches on and fills up the coil bucket with energy. When the MOSFET switches off, the coil bucket has to empty. In this case, there is a medium-sized bucket and a small bucket sitting right next to it. Both of the buckets have holes in them. The coil bucket empties into the two buckets, and most of the energy gets poured into the medium-sized bucket. The medium-sized leaky bucket is the resistive part of your resistor-coil. The small leaky bucket is the diode. A short time later, all of the energy has leaked out both leaky buckets and is gone. There is only one place for the coil bucket to empty into, the small-and-medium leaky bucket combo. The coil bucket cannot empty any of it's energy back into the big external water tank (the source battery) because the MOSFET valve is closed.

That's the energy bucket trail for your circuit.

Jibbguy: I agree with what you said. Amplifiers are prone to oscillation. The simplest analogy is when a PA system creates feedback when a microphone is too close to the speakers. The same thing happens with MOSFETS and transistors where the gate inputs or the base inputs act like the microphone.

MileHigh

[Aaron]

resistance

Aaron - as best I understand it - the effect 'cascade' is possibly better encouraged with small resistance - apparently 100 Ohm. But for better stability you need to increase it up to 600 Ohm. But I was advised that it is better to experiment to find the best value.

That's the best I could do. Hopefully it'll help.

Thanks, that gives me the ballpark.

[witsend]

T
I understood that this aperiodic oscillation was not a necessary factor for the circuit to exhibit overunity?

.99

Quite right. It's not necessary. But it's jolly interesting. You're right it's tricky to compute.

[Peter Lindemann]

Roger Andrews

Dear MileHigh,

Your disbelief that circuits like this CAN recharge the source battery is based on logic, but not on a thorough knowledge of history. In fact, a wide variety of patents have issued on circuits of this type. One comes to mind immediately, since you have probably seen it in operation. I refer to the "Executive Desktop Novelties" based on the US Patent #3,783,550 by Roger Andrews. Here is a link to a copy of the patent, for your interest.

Patent by Roger Andrews

In the opening statement, Andrews states "This invention relates to electric motors and more particularly to a novelty electric motor which appears to have no source of power." These toys routinely ran on their batteries for periods that exceeded the power in the battery by a factor of many times, due to their ability to recover "regenerative feedback" even though the circuit does not appear, at first glance, to allow it.

Regardless of what you believe, these things do happen in the real world, and have been patented and studied for decades.

Peter

[Hoppy]

Jibbguy - your post is excellent. I would be so glad to get Hoppy or MileHigh to look it over and give your input, if it's not asking too much. I think Jibbguy is showing us that those cascading aperiodic waveforms have been repeatedly evident and always dealt with through some means to obviate their effects.

Maybe .99? It seems to point to some means where the cascade effect can be engendered.

Hoppy - I have never said that my paper is worthy of review. But since this has been brought up - I think it is. It is using a very simply circuit to prove overunity. Whether it's presentation is adequate is at question. That's why it may need a rewrite. But I won't know this until it is reviewed. You see my point?

Sounds like a Chicken and egg situation to me!

Hoppy

[Joit]

I understood that this aperiodic oscillation was not a necessary factor for the circuit to exhibit overunity?

.99

Quite intresting, when you calculate Skywatchers report to COP5.
The Paper states random oscillating Frequency of ~200khz.
Frequency is set up to 2,4 khz - COP1? - ~200khz = COP19.
Seems it match that way.
So seems oscillating is not needed, but a Bonus.

About the Caps, maybe it helps to isolate them with Diodes, to still get the oscillation.
But then its maybe again the pick-the-right-thing Part.


Edit: The comparison between Water and Current, well, there is not the Option Magnetism at the Water.

[MileHigh]

Peter: It looks like somebody beat Jonny Darvo to the punch! lol I don't know much about the science of batteries, but I would not be surprised if you trickle discharge a battery you get more effective energy out of it as compared to more "conventional" charge cycling.

I think the logical next step is to run some new energy-in energy-out tests. I think that the discussions on the merits of the circuit have run their course, and the duty cycle issue has been resolved. I think that measuring the battery (or a good power supply) energy out while measuring heat dissipated would be the way to go. Even before that documenting the waveforms would help a lot. It would be way cool! lol

[Hoppy]

Dear MileHigh,


Patent by Roger Andrews

In the opening statement, Andrews states "This invention relates to electric motors and more particularly to a novelty electric motor which appears to have no source of power." These toys routinely ran on their batteries for periods that exceeded the power in the battery by a factor of many times, due to their ability to recover "regenerative feedback" even though the circuit does not appear, at first glance, to allow it.

Regardless of what you believe, these things do happen in the real world, and have been patented and studied for decades.

Peter

Peter,

Its a lot more to do with the 'Puekert Effect' in reverse IMO based on my observations.

Hoppy

[Peter Lindemann]

I totally Agree

Peter: It looks like somebody beat Jonny Darvo to the punch! lol I don't know much about the science of batteries, but I would not be surprised if you trickle discharge a battery you get more effective energy out of it as compared to more "conventional" charge cycling.

I think the logical next step is to run some new energy-in energy-out tests. I think that the discussions on the merits of the circuit have run their course, and the duty cycle issue has been resolved. I think that measuring the battery (or a good power supply) energy out while measuring heat dissipated would be the way to go. Even before that documenting the waveforms would help a lot. It would be way cool! lol

MileHigh,

Yes, I agree. The issue to focus on here is whether heat appears in the inductive heating element only when "electricity is dissipated" in it, or if heat also appears in the inductive heating element when "electricity is transferred" through it and recovered? This is the issue of interest. Obviously, if the second statement is true, and this is Rosemary's claim, then it has extremely important ramifications concerning the entire field of "thermodynamics" and the supposed Laws that govern it.

Peter

[Hoppy]

MileHigh,

Yes, I agree. The issue to focus on here is whether heat appears in the inductive heating element only when "electricity is dissipated" in it, or if heat also appears in the inductive heating element when "electricity is transferred" through it and recovered? This is the issue of interest. Obviously, if the second statement is true, and this is Rosemary's claim, then it has extremely important ramifications concerning the entire field of "thermodynamics" and the supposed Laws that govern it.

Peter

Peter

Can you please explain why there would be extremely important ramifications if it were proved that an inductive heating element produced heat on electricity recovery through it? My thinking is that unless it can be proved beyond doubt that the sum total of energy consumed and converted to heat by the circuit, exceeds the total energy from source over a given duration of time, there is nothing to get excited about.

Hoppy

[Aaron]

making heat

Hoppy,

Let's say there is no recovery on the circuit.

The circuit runs for 24 hours and that will produce X amount of heat.

What percentage of power (whatever the that happens to be) that left the battery do you consider to be converted to heat?

Would it be 100% of what left the battery? Would 100% of what left the battery be converted to heat if there is no recovery therefore meaning that everything is wasted?

The temperature of the resistor is not part of the question, it will be whatever temperature it is.

[FuzzyTomCat]

Ground Loops

Hi everyone,

I sure everyone has had time to digest my claims on "not" using a AC grounging system for DC circuits in the United States.

Some interesting developments and some verification of my statements have been made through testing with a oscilloscope for "ground loops" ........ Please view these new videos from TK on his findings ...... you as he was, will be surprised.

YouTube - Electric OU 10: AC coupling vs. DC coupling


YouTube - groundloop c2 (the best one)

Best Regards,
Glen


EDIT - ie: "surprised" in reference to a noise or dirty AC ground

[Peter Lindemann]

Off Topic

Hi Folks,

In his study of the human character structure, Dr. Wilhelm Reich found one particular behavior of such interest, that he studied it for decades. That behavior, he termed "evasion of the essential". Remarkably, he found it was directly associated with groups of voluntary muscles that had lost their elastic condition and had become chronically rigid. This situation he referred to as a form of "muscle armoring", and found that it apparently underpinned the characteralogical rigidity. Patients rarely freed themselves from their closed minds spontaneously, without first being set free muscularly, using Reichian Therapeutic techniques involving deep breathing and deep tissue massage simultaneously.

He also found that many of these patients exhibited this muscular rigidity in and around the anal sphincter, leading to the more popular social observation that "so and so is anal retentive". Its a fascinating subject, well worth getting through the complexity of the material.

This post may or may not have any relevance to this thread.

Peter