COP 17 Heater | Rosemary Ainslie | Part 2

[witsend]

Hi Rose.
can you elaborate on which problems were solved ? how much COP did you get in the latest experiments of the water heater ?

Hello Gad. I should have clarified things. We were temporarily denied access to the lab - due to some unhappy circumstances. But the the good news is that the problems were resolved. This is not an easy technology to progress. Many competing interests and an awful lot of aggression aimed at new technologies generally. Also. Always remember that it takes enormous courage for academics to even investigate this phenomenon. If their name's are associated with fringe technologies they may very well be branded as eccentrics which will do their reputations no good. The real courage is those rare individuals who are prepared to stick their necks out. To me they're our angels. The simple truth is that we're enormously grateful that any institution at all will even look into this effect. And they're giving us every opportunity to prove the claim. Which is fair and reasonable and having said that - it's also rare and wonderful.

But, as mentioned, reason has prevailed.

And Bart, if you see me as being a 'fighter' - this particular one I could not fight. Hence the depression. But others faught the good fight on our behalf. That makes this particular victory so very, very sweet. Not often that outsiders rally - and that's what was managed here. I've said it before. It's like Aramageddon. But the international war is actually for truth - not power. Or something like that. LOL. Anyway we're all doing a small bit for this particular piece of truth. Hopefully we'll do it justice.

[witsend]

I just spammed the MIB's

LOL Ash. Spamming is just not enough. But every bit helps.

[witsend]

Hi guys,

it is an unhappy truth that for any academic to be associated with any testing of free energy - they will then be branded eccentric and will very likely, then be made into pariahs. Our own Dr Stiffler could comment about this attitude. It seems that to a very large community within the academic world it is 'reckless' to explore physics principles if they 'deviate' in the least - from traditional thought.

I've had a truly wonderful day. I went to our university to establish access to our laboratory and was then invited to join the staff at their end of term luncheon. It seems that they are all familiar with the experiment, it's objects and our role in this. Cordiality and kindness abound.

I cannot stress how extraordinary is this attitude. To the best of my knowledge there is no other university in the Western Cape - at least four that are registered as such - that is so heartily committed to the principles of good science - based as it is on experimental evidence. They have given us an opportunity to prove our claim and I have never asked for anything else. And that they have not prejudged the outcome is rare and exceptional.

What a pleasure. It really seems as if there are those rare academics who are brave, thoughtful and willing to explore all things. What is truly exceptional is that this attitude seems to be shared by an entire department. And with that attitude - where can we ever go but forwards? It's a truly wonderful sign for the progress of this and all similar technologies.

[b4FreeEnergy]

Finally!

Good thing Rosemary!
They probably know that you will post the results on this thread as well, so
nobody can ever use that against you again!

Cheers,
B

[witsend]

Good thing Rosemary!
They probably know that you will post the results on this thread as well, so
nobody can ever use that against you again!

Cheers,
B

Hi Bart. I'm still feeling heady. It's truly wonderful news. Indeed I'll be posting results here. I intend using this thread as a systematic account of all our data. I've worked out how to download the material from my computer that I'll leave there to this computer at home.

Can't wait. But we're still a couple of weeks away from testing. Donny will design the switch and perhaps we can get some of the students involved in the testing. It's all just so exciting. And it's a FIRST. Just gets better and better.

[witsend]

Gad, re your query on the AC component and for any other experimentalists who may not post here - here's the thing.

A battery - typically delivers a DC current. Nor can a battery deliver current flow 'back' to itself to recharge itself. Therefore one can conclude that any evidence of current flow that is 'below' zero - must be generated from elsewhere in the circuit. It may be that this is stored in the inductive component of the resistor. This is then returned to the battery. But correctly any voltage that is measured above zero would generate a current flow from the battery. Any voltage that is measured below zero would be generate a current flow back to the battery. At question is whether this effectively recharges the battery or not. But there is no question as to when the battery is responsible for delivering its energy. It can only deliver this when the switch is closed and then that energy is typically seen as a positive voltage.

Therefore, correctly, whether the waveform is oscillating or resonating, the amount of energy delivered by the battery is always the sum of both cycles. The sum - in this instance is, in fact, the difference between the two voltage values. That's mainstream protocol.

[gadh]

my current status

i encountered a few obstacles that prevent me from measuring the power/energy on the circuit:

1. i cant get the load resistor to heat more than 9 degrees (all celsius) over ambient (34 degrees) - and i tried many oscillation frequencies and high voltage spikes (over the load). only once i could get it to heat to 64 deg. but could not reproduce this situation. this much heat is important for me for the energy measurements i plan to do since if i'll have less heat - the battery would drain very slow and that will affect the measurements.

2. my scope cannot connect to the pc for downloading the waveform/voltage samples, so i cannot calculate them correctly. the scope shows ambiguous values of mean voltage across the shunt. i would have to get another one soon.

3. Also, i want to measure the mean power (not energy) given by the battery - Ainslie says the right way is to measure the mean shunt voltage, but i spoke to my friend (who has a PHD in physics and also owns an electronics company) who told me that even according to Ainslie's theory - the right way to measure is to seperate each voltage direction (above ground and below ground) , multiple each measurement value (V^2) apart (take the voltage value of each time quanta you measure), find the average of each result - and only then subtract them from each other - since our goal is to calculate power - we have to calculate first the voltage/current in the "RMS" way (not the usual RMS, of course, because we have a pulsed DC circuit, not AC).

so the shunt voltage over N time quantas will be: Vrms = SUM(Vp^2)/N - SUM(Vm^2)/N,
or in a shorter version: Vrms = AVG(Vp^2) - AVG(Vm^2)

Legend: Vp = V above ground (plus), Vm = V below ground (minus)
N = number of time quantas

Only then we can calculate the Irms (current), and the mean power over each element - according to the regular Ohm's law.

my current plan is first to get an oscillation state that the power calc. shows a gain in it, only then measure the total battery energy by draining the battery.

I would appreciate your help,
Gad

[gadh]

more info

Also, i see that my 555 battery drains quickly - i replaced 3 new batteries over my last experiments (about 6-8 exp.) . each experiment lasted between 2-4 hours. is this a desired situcation ? it smells a bit suspicious to me...

Another thing - maybe if i'll use a 12v battery for the 555 instead of 9v - it will help getting the excess heat condition ? (as Rosemary's used in hers)

[witsend]

i encountered a few obstacles that prevent me from measuring the power/energy on the circuit:

1. i cant get the load resistor to heat more than 9 degrees (all celsius) over ambient (34 degrees) - and i tried many oscillation frequencies and high voltage spikes (over the load). only once i could get it to heat to 64 deg. but could not reproduce this situation. this much heat is important for me for the energy measurements i plan to do since if i'll have less heat - the battery would drain very slow and that will affect the measurements.

Sorry for the delay in answering this Gad. I've just received your email. All I can say about that heat - keep trying. I would be inclined to test a lower frequency to allow the heat more time to establish.

2. my scope cannot connect to the pc for downloading the waveform/voltage samples, so i cannot calculate them correctly. the scope shows ambiguous values of mean voltage across the shunt. i would have to get another one soon.

I am always inclined to go to industry with these kind of problems - if you can't find the required at a campus. Industry are also more inclined to be curious. Beyond that I can't help. I wish I could.

3. Also, i want to measure the mean power (not energy) given by the battery - Ainslie says the right way is to measure the mean shunt voltage, but i spoke to my friend (who has a PHD in physics and also owns an electronics company) who told me that even according to Ainslie's theory - the right way to measure is to seperate each voltage direction (above ground and below ground) , multiple each measurement value (V^2) apart (take the voltage value of each time quanta you measure), find the average of each result - and only then subtract them from each other - since our goal is to calculate power - we have to calculate first the voltage/current in the "RMS" way (not the usual RMS, of course, because we have a pulsed DC circuit, not AC).

I think we're on the same page here. You first have to get a representative voltage sample range onto a spreadsheet. The sample range required for accuracy will be stipulated in the scope specifications. Then you apply your power analysis to each sample in that spreadsheet. Then you sum those totals and that will give you your mean average power delivered. Then you divide that value by the number of samples in the spreadsheet. To calculate the power from the battery the equation is the voltage across your shunt divided by the ohms value of the shunt to give you current flow. Then the power delivered/returned from or to the battery is that value * battery voltage. So it's V/R = I * Vbatt. Power is V * I.

so the shunt voltage over N time quantas will be: Vrms = SUM(Vp^2)/N - SUM(Vm^2)/N,
or in a shorter version: Vrms = AVG(Vp^2) - AVG(Vm^2)

Legend: Vp = V above ground (plus), Vm = V below ground (minus)
N = number of time quantas

Not sure at all about this Gad. I'll need to check this with Donny and will get back to you. You must remember we're trying to establish the amount of power delivered by/returned to the battery. That value is always established as V * I. To the best of my knowledge there are no variations to this - whether it's measuring the power delivered by the battery or dissipated at the load. The difference is only that the energy measured across the load is a product of both cycles. The energy delivered by the battery is the sum or difference between those two cycles.

my current plan is first to get an oscillation state that the power calc. shows a gain in it, only then measure the total battery energy by draining the battery.

Gad, the easiest guide to a 'gain' is to see the early voltage indications on your scope set at DC coupling. Provided it is the type that can display this value then it will give you a guide to the instantaneous voltage. When and if that value dips regularly into a minus voltage value then you are more than likely at the required oscillation and/or resonance.

I'll get back to you here on the equation to apply. But I can assure you that if you follow the guidelines here then it concurs with academic requirement. I'm not quite sure what it is your friend is proposing that is different. But, as mentioned, I'll contact Donny tomorrow - now is too late - and will then get back to you.

Meanwhile good luck with accessing that scope. And keep up the good work. Try a slower frequency to see if that gets the required heat value.

Best regards,
R
EDITED

[witsend]

Also, i see that my 555 battery drains quickly - i replaced 3 new batteries over my last experiments (about 6-8 exp.) . each experiment lasted between 2-4 hours. is this a desired situcation ? it smells a bit suspicious to me...

Another thing - maybe if i'll use a 12v battery for the 555 instead of 9v - it will help getting the excess heat condition ? (as Rosemary's used in hers)

Again. I'm not sure what batteries you're using. What battery type? If you're using rechargable lead/acid then I simply cannot understand why you're replacing batteries at all? I have only ever used lead/acid rechargable - but have also only ever used a small 'gell/cell' at 12 volts. I cannot ever remember having to recharge this. I suppose I must have. But the energy required to drive the switch is nominal and can be very quickly established by putting a shunt in series. I can assure you that the power required to run the switch is negligible.

[b4FreeEnergy]

Gad, maybe that PhD friend of yours has an idea how we could do the necessary measurements in a more easy way? Tips are always welcome of course!
Cheers,
B

[witsend]

Gad, I have not forgotten what's needed here. Just have not been able to reach Donny. Apparently soonest is our time 7.00 this evening.

Sorry about the delay here.

[witsend]

Gad - I get it you've been answered on this from Donny. Just a quick point. He'll be forwarding you a further email to explain the 'ac' component and the required protocol for energy delivered from the battery. The applied protocols as I've listed, still apply and are the only basis for measuring the energy delivered by the supply source.

[b4FreeEnergy]

Gad - I get it you've been answered on this from Donny. Just a quick point. He'll be forwarding you a further email to explain the 'ac' component and the required protocol for energy delivered from the battery. The applied protocols as I've listed, still apply and are the only basis for measuring the energy delivered by the supply source.

Rosemary, can you please put me on the copy list I'm interested in that as well.
Cheers and thx,
B

[witsend]

Rosemary, can you please put me on the copy list I'm interested in that as well.
Cheers and thx,
B

Of course I can Bart. Will send the first off asap.