Bedini/Cole Bipolar switch (or how to drastically reduce your input!)

[redeagle]

I got to test that Idea today about using the single trigger wire and diodes to run the circuit it works just fine. I am using a flux gate style motor. Axial mounted coils between the magnets. Though it is not fast enough to get into the high output zone, I'm still excited that it worked. Now I just have to work on eliminating losses and adding generating capacity.

WOO HOO

[cody]

2 switches, one coil. Why?

ren or anyone else who knows,

Do you know the purpose of having a switch on both sides of the coil? Standard bedinis have one switch, why does this one have two? What is this allowing us to do thats different? Obviously its completly isolating the coil, I think, but what good is that? Is this allowing the collapsing field to be put back into the run battery? Bedini shows several designs that have a switch on either side of the coil, i have always wondered why. Does anyone know?

[ren]

Hi Cody,

its a good question, one that I have pondered a bit myself.

I will give you my take on it.

Yes, as you say the coil is totally isolated from the driving battery until it is called upon to switch on. I see this as allowing the coil to be considered a generator coil at all times, when the switch is off that is. It would depend upon how you have the bridge configured as to whether it was sending charge to the run battery or the drive battery.

This configuration from my studies doesnt seem to give as large an inductive kick as the SG circuits. Infact, a capacitor off the bridge in my builds only charged to double the input voltage, and no higher. Also on my scope the spikes dont go anywhere near as high. This could just be my failure to build correctly of course, but the SG circuit on the same rotor brings those familiar inductive spikes out straight away.

Aarons comments on the coil in the SG circuit being an extension of the positive terminal and having potential already sitting inside it comes to mind. I feel that having this connection to the batteries terminal at all times plays an important role in producing that inductive spike. But I could be wrong.

One thing that interested me as well was the difference in functions of the circuits. The SG will build up its input current steadily until it hits its sweet spot. Any drag on the rotor DECREASES input current.

The bipolar circuit is the opposite. Full current on startup (defined by ON time, resistance of coil/circuit and input voltage) but at top speed input is at its minimum. I would hazard a guess and say that this is partly due to the nature of the triggering of the circuit. The faster it goes, the quicker the ON time gets. But it has to be more than that, as the SG circuit does the opposite, despite being timed in an almost identical fashion.

There are other benefits in using the bipolar circuit, Im hoping to show some of these soon, but I am still waiting for more parts to be machined and assembled. Hopefully I can add to a couple of these threads that I started some time ago.

Thanks for your interest.

Regards

[nvisser]

That circuit is to allow you to feed voltage back to the drive battery
You are not suppose to feed the spikes back while the battery is supplying
the coil.
The pnp switch the positive and the npn switch the negative . The moment they swith off , the battery is isolated from the coil and the (reactive power) spike can be fed to the battery. Then your total power draw from the battery are less and I suppose you can use a second generator coil to generate voltage to charge a second battery.
I think it will be good to put a cap in parralel with the battery . It will absorb the spike faster then the battery and make it available again
I also found that my ssg runs much faster with this circuit

[cody]

another question

will this circuit self oscillate like a regular bedini circuit?

[ren]

yes, given the right resistances.

[shubhamforme]

hi

hi there, i am working on the bedini and ron window motor,,,
can i use this battery to self recharge my 7amp 12v lead acid battery???
and can this circuit be a self runner and recharge my battery when ever it goes down???
can it work???
here is the circuit--
http://www.freeuploadimages.org/view...4caidzicax.jpg
thx

[shubhamforme]

hi

hi there, i am working on the bedini and ron window motor,,,
can i use this battery to self recharge my 7amp 12v lead acid battery???
and can this circuit be a self runner and recharge my battery when ever it goes down???
can it work???
here is the circuit--
Free Upload Images
thx

[Bhargav]

Window motor terminology

Hey Ren ,
Got so inspired looking at your replications , i got myself the Window motor KitB to play with .Thanks for the tutorial !!! Got one full sequential bi-polar circuit connected to one motor winding ( has 2 small and one bigger wire ) going on 12V . Motor runs but can be stopped by hand on trying.

Now i have two more sets of windings ( secondary windings ) , but they seem to have only two ends each ie One secondary winding has 2 ends only .
I made my second full sequential bi polar circuit but cant figure out how to connect the 2 ends in a circuit which needs 6 ends .

SO , can you please help me out with some basics :

1) What is a motor coil?
2) What is the drive coil depicted in Bedini window motor circuit ?
3) What is the purpose of having secondary windings ?
4) How do i use multiple windings/circuits to extract maximum torque from one motor ?

I have attached a picture of my circuit replication running the motor ... I am just in process of putting a reed switch on the circuit and will post the pictures when i have them operational. I broke the one that came with the kit Damn them reed switches are fragile.

Long time since you updated , how is going on your replication ...

Thanks,
Bhargav

Regards,
Bhargav

[ren]

Hi Bhargav,

Ok I see a problem with your setup.

Your coils arent aligned properly. You can see the recesses in the coil former where the wires should sit. I dont have one of these kits but from what I can see you should have all coils (stator) aligned to the magnets (rotor) at the same time. If this is the case then all coils can be timed to fire at the same time, thus only needing one set of trigger coils. By the look of it those coils could be wound a bit tighter too. This is the easiest method because it doesnt require a separate circuit for each power winding. You can join all coils together in parallel, as long as the polarity is correct. If it is not it will slow the rotor down. Each coil you connect should speed it up. You can parallel as many as you like within the same phase, within the ratings of the circuit.

If you want the coils to fire at different times (phasing) then each phase will need its own triggering method.

Regards

[minoly]

Alert!

`

Hey Ren ,
Got so inspired looking at your replications , i got myself the Window motor KitB to play with .Thanks for the tutorial !!! Got one full sequential bi-polar circuit connected to one motor winding ( has 2 small and one bigger wire ) going on 12V . Motor runs but can be stopped by hand on trying.

Now i have two more sets of windings ( secondary windings ) , but they seem to have only two ends each ie One secondary winding has 2 ends only .
I made my second full sequential bi polar circuit but cant figure out how to connect the 2 ends in a circuit which needs 6 ends .

SO , can you please help me out with some basics :

1) What is a motor coil?
2) What is the drive coil depicted in Bedini window motor circuit ?
3) What is the purpose of having secondary windings ?
4) How do i use multiple windings/circuits to extract maximum torque from one motor ?

I have attached a picture of my circuit replication running the motor ... I am just in process of putting a reed switch on the circuit and will post the pictures when i have them operational. I broke the one that came with the kit Damn them reed switches are fragile.

Long time since you updated , how is going on your replication ...

Thanks,
Bhargav

Regards,
Bhargav

Secure those magnets now!
I can't tell from the picture, have you secured those magnets?
we thought we did a decent job for 5k RPM using wire and glue, ours flew off at 2k.
also, your motor will show nicely if you peal the paper off the Plexiglas
Patrick

[Bhargav]

Questions regarding Rick's kit

@ Ren,
Thanks , will make changes and post progress .

@ patrick,
Thanks for the alert .Have put in two part epoxy . Fairly confident on the epoxy to hold on but looking at the newer window motor video that surfaced a few days back on youtube , i will just put a 1.5 mm thk aluminium strap at the ends of magnets to be sure.

Well as you too have rick's kit , can you please point where to connect the trigger wires when using the reed switch/hall switch circuit . dont know if i can post the circuit here ??? The connection isnt shown in the circuit provided.

How do we effectively utilize the three circuits provided and the one primary coil ( has 6 ends ) and two secondary coils ( has 2 ends each ) ? My goal is to record the highest torque possible with the motor .Rick's instructions cd says we can utilize all three circuits for the coils provided but iam not able to understand how

Regards,
Bhargav

[Bhargav]

Found a lead form Darkwizards post

Quote : " Original Bedini/Cole sequential bipolar circuit is as it is but some reason , that is the reason that the upgraded circuit doesn´t have any trigger coil, because it will switch trough the hall effect and battery voltage, more resistance is needed in order to use little current of the primary. "

From what Darkwizard had stated above in one of the earlier posts on this thread , the reed switch circuit needs NO TRIGGER WIRES . It only needs the two ends of a coil connected as a power coil.

Can i conclude that :
A single coil can be wound and connected to run the reed switch circuit .

If this is right , then it would explain why Rick says all three circuits can be utilized with the 1 primary and 2 secondary coild that he has supplied.

@Patrick/ Ren,
Did you happen to try something similar ?
Just gonna try it out now and will post pics

[minoly]

Quote : " Original Bedini/Cole sequential bipolar circuit is as it is but some reason , that is the reason that the upgraded circuit doesn´t have any trigger coil, because it will switch trough the hall effect and battery voltage, more resistance is needed in order to use little current of the primary. "

From what Darkwizard had stated above in one of the earlier posts on this thread , the reed switch circuit needs NO TRIGGER WIRES . It only needs the two ends of a coil connected as a power coil.

Can i conclude that :
A single coil can be wound and connected to run the reed switch circuit .

If this is right , then it would explain why Rick says all three circuits can be utilized with the 1 primary and 2 secondary coild that he has supplied.

@Patrick/ Ren,
Did you happen to try something similar ?
Just gonna try it out now and will post pics

the reed and the hall do not require a trigger coil to work. they go in place of the trigger coil. you should have been sent a few extra small pnp's. use the 12volts from primary some resistors and the reed or hall to trigger the small pnp that will trigger the mpsA06 which will in turn trigger the mjl's. just as it shows in the schematic that was included in the kit labeled "pnp for hall/reed". I see you uploaded it to the Monopolemotor group.
seems complicated at first at least it did to us. I think we have the hang of it now.
try it out w/ one - half bi-polar ckt first.
we did not have epoxy, we used super glue and picture frame hanging wire. this all came apart at what we guess was somewhere between 2 and 4 K rpm .
Patrick

[ren]

you need a way to retain the magnets if you want to push it hard. It needs to be next to bulletproof, tapes or glues can only go so far. JB showed a window motorB, with stainless retaining plates I believe, that were bolted in. You could achieve a similar purpose with a stainless strap, or tube. The large square edge of the magnet will make things a little difficult for some approaches.

P'nS is on the money for the hall/reed thing. Check the schematic you've been given. The halls (and maybe the reed too?) require a pnp signal transistor in place of the mpsa06. Its easy to muddle up the configurations first time so do what Minoly says and build a half circuit (with the full circuit in mind eventually).

Trade the pnp, note some of the connections and resistance values may be different so trace every line. You probably need the right polarity of a passing magnet to trigger the hall, you will have to check the documentation. You could trigger it off the rotor itself, but a timing disc would be ideal. The Reed could be used in place of everything really, but it wouldnt last long. Im guessing that the reed could be placed in the trigger circuit directly, maybe even replacing the pnp/npn signal altogether. Or you could use it to trigger the pnp/npn signal transistor.

Regards