Bedini/Cole Bipolar switch (or how to drastically reduce your input!)

[Bhargav]

Circuit heats a lot with halls

Hey Ren,
YEAH ... that would be so cool !!! The circuit is heating up a lot when i try to run with halls .Busted the 470 ohm resistor on the MJL21193.
It felt so easy to stop the shaft with my hand whereas with the trigger coil methd , i had much more torque ... Just am going to test out Patrick's suggestion of learning Hall switching ... Hope things get better with that...

How about placement of Neo's around the rotor ? Did you research on that topic anytime ?? I have tried out the load on trigger coil method and was unable to get even 1 hp . Something is amiss , Rick's neodymium rotor lawnmover could move a lot of weight around ... More to learn , more to learn

Please do a writeup with your progress when possible , would be a great to learn from your experience with that big motor you got

Bhargav

[minoly]

Circuit heats a lot with halls

Hey Ren,
YEAH ... that would be so cool !!! The circuit is heating up a lot when i try to run with halls .Busted the 470 ohm resistor on the MJL21193.
It felt so easy to stop the shaft with my hand whereas with the trigger coil methd , i had much more torque ... Just am going to test out Patrick's suggestion of learning Hall switching ... Hope things get better with that...

How about placement of Neo's around the rotor ? Did you research on that topic anytime ?? I have tried out the load on trigger coil method and was unable to get even 1 hp . Something is amiss , Rick's neodymium rotor lawnmover could move a lot of weight around ... More to learn , more to learn

Please do a writeup with your progress when possible , would be a great to learn from your experience with that big motor you got

Bhargav

if your ckt heats, then you have something hooked up wrong. did you play w/ the halls and LEDs and pnp vs npn....?
can you light them on command w/ bright and low intensity?
if you can do all this as I noted in an earlier post, then placement of the halls in the Bedini Cole ckt should be second nature.

[Zooty]

Rick Friedrich made a nice window motor SSG style using the basic SSG circuit and wheel but with strong neodymium magnets. It charges a second battery SSG style BUT it also keeps the primary topped up without any feedback to source circuitry! Just the normal SSG circuit.

Directory:Bedini SG:Self-runner:Window - PESWiki

[minoly]

Rick Friedrich made a nice window motor SSG style using the basic SSG circuit and wheel but with strong neodymium magnets. It charges a second battery SSG style BUT it also keeps the primary topped up without any feedback to source circuitry! Just the normal SSG circuit.

Directory:Bedini SG:Self-runner:Window - PESWiki

yes, that is what we were doing here
YouTube - min2oly's Channel
before the magnet launching party

[Zooty]

Nice setup Minoly Have you tried dumping the caps to the primary? Whats the voltage and current draw on your setup?

[Bhargav]

Progress

Yuppiers.... Thanks Patrick , Got the basics right and circuit running with a nice hall switch speed control .

Here goes my experiment result :

12V input , two hall switches , no circuit heating up if the spacing between trigger magnets is higher . The circuit will heatup if the spacing between trigger magnets is made lesser ( ie more circuit on time ).Using only one power coil of 100 turns 23 gauge . Very little torque as motor can be stopped by hand easily.

Speed is higher with wider magnet trigger spacing (less number of triggers/ per revolution ). Torque seems to increase a bit as number of trigger/rev is increased but only uptil a point (the trade off is heat in circuit ) .


For the problems :

1) I put in a single coil of 400 turns 23 gauge and the speed of motor was very low when compared to 4 individual coils of 100 turns . Looks like resisitance of coil is a major issue . If i try to add more coils in parallel , speed decreases!!! This is wierd and i cant understand how Rick had a monstrous 4" thick coil on the lawn mover . How do i put in more Coils ???

2) The motor runs best when i squeeze the thickness of power coil . Certainly looks like thickness of the power coil has an appreciable effect on speed . Again cant understand how/why rick setup a huge power coil instead of smaller power coils ...

If Ren / Bits / Patrick have been this road , do let me know a few pointers for improvement ...



Bhargav

[Bhargav]

Basic questions again !!!

I guess the right questions are still the basic questions :

How does the thickness of wire and number of windings effect performance of motor? Lets assume we are running on one full bi polar circuit( hall switching ) and 12V...

My results are in the earlier post ...

Bhargav

[Bhargav]

reply from Dadhav

With no activity on the thread , i posted the question to Dadhav who has done some wonderful replications on youtube .
Here is a reply from Dadhav about the power coils :

Hello, I read the comments on the link you gave me. I can only make a few points based on my experience with airplane motors and some with the window motor. I would expect the RPM to go down as you add more turns to the coil. In an aero motor this is the way you change the KV. The lower the KV or rpm the stronger the torque. This is why an outrunner motor like on my channel can swing a large diameter propeller without a gear box. Now the most ideal thing when designing an R/C motor is to keep the resistance of the coils on the stator as low as possible. Sometimes I use many as 20 wires wound simultaneously to get as much copper on as possible. Granted, I may only use 10 turns per leg on the stator of an aero motor but the principle probably applies to the window motor as well. So I would predict the more turns you add to the window motor the lower your RPM's or KV will be. Your torque should go up respectively but you are in a toss up situation based on the resistance you add with the length of wire. So also, your efficiency will go up with as many parallel coils you can add. Note: parallel not series. If you don't bring the resistance down by using multiple strands of the power coil or a heavy wire, you will need to increase the voltage running the motor to get the results you want. I have been winding my aero motors with more turns and using 4 lithium polymer batteries instead of 3. This is giving me more power and efficiency.
If you find this to be useful, you're welcome to copy it to your forum page.
Good luck and keep me up to date with your progress.
John H


Well i have tried a lot of adaptations with the bedini-cole circuit and just cant seem to figure out how to generate torque from the Window motor kit B. Sure the motor screams itself to 3500 rpm with 48 V and almost 5 amps draw. But as soon as i load the motor with a 3KW 1500 rpm alternator , the setup just goes to about 500 rpm . Have tried to put in 3 circuits with hall output trigger in parallel - not much luck there too ... Have tried all the resistor values where the 220 ohm resistor is there with not much improvement in terms of torque ...

Iam running out of ideas for this system and find it so difficult to understand how rick had such a fat power coil do a lot of work at the convention ...

Will post if i make any further progress ...
Bhargav

[Bhargav]

Video update on 14 dec

Thanks to Patrick , Ren and Dadhav ... video update on the progress i had done and written about in my earlier posts .
But havent been able to move on to make a nice useful motor like the one Rick showcased . Seems like i have hit a deadend until something else strikes me to improve the torque on the system .

Link: " YouTube - 14122010029 "

[minoly]

window B kit

Hi Bhargav,
thought of you, John Bedini just posted this:
YouTube - Bedini-Cole 1971 to 1984 built from lab notes
on the energenix chanel at youtube. thought it might have some value.
Patrick

[tjnlsn255]

This is an awsome video......

Thank you JB!

Questions.... is the power that is being feed back to the primary battery being pulsed in any way other than the on/off timing of the coils themselves?

Why two sensors and only three sensor magnets?

Looks like at least 6 window coils... are they in parallel? It looks like they are all tied together .....

What does "longer run time" mean.....;-)

I hope this video stays up for a long time.....LOL

Hopes and Dreams.....

Todd

[citfta]

Questions

Hi Todd

The window motor in the video has 6 magnets on the rotor. They are arranged N-S-N-S-N-S. There are 3 sensor magnets so they can fire the coils every 60 degrees with the opposite polarity. One hall switch turns the coils on with one polarity and then 60 degrees later a magnet turns the other hall switch on to turn on the coils with the opposite polarity.

And yes the coils are all connected in parallel.

No the power going back to the battery is not being pulsed as far as I can tell from John's description.

Longer run time means the battery is going to last longer because it is being recharged as it is powering the motor.

I hope this helps a little.

Carroll

[tjnlsn255]

Thank you Carroll for the explanation.

So if I am going to use the 1/2 circuit and a trigger coil, then I just need one trigger coil, right?

Hopes and dreams....

Todd

[citfta]

Hi Todd,

Yes if you are going to use half the circuit like you would for a monopole then you only need one trigger winding. That is the way I had mine for my SSG for a while. Then I changed it to a hall effect so I could play around with the timing some and vary from the fixed timing of the trigger winding. Still experimenting with the hall setup. I am looking for the best timing and length of pulse for the best charging.

C ya, Carroll

[Bhargav]

Alternate transistor to up the voltage

Hey Patrick,
Things do look interesting with the video link you had posted. I did read a bit on making magnet coils and it does seem Newman , Gray etc all used lots of turns .

I did make a thick coil with #24 wire with 20 parallel coils . Ran it with the full bipolar circuit . The torque wasnt too good in comparision to a single thick wire of 100 turns( #17 wire ) but the speed was quite up there ... Almost went 150% more than the single thick wire . Speed was close to 4200 rpm on Window motor kit B. Problem is i could get the coil to run only on one occasion after which it doesnt seem to work . It appears as though the positioning of the coil is critical . Iam going to give it a shot with a new coil as iam not happy with the winding on my first attempt.

Do you have any suggestion on alternate transistors and resistor values to let us increase the input voltage ? I hope you do follow Dadhav's youtube channel . He has a lot of interesting things going on with the window motor . Includes his work on Mg battery similar to the work you are doing ...

Have fun,
Bhargav